odd question

[Efarstan]

I was wondering..
If someone wants to learn to play..
and they do "pure technique" exercises...
learn their theory..
THEN they can cut their teeth ( so to speak ) on
the WTC..or the Chopin Etudes..etc etc..

WHY do we go thru the "Thompson Piano course"..( only name that came to mind)..
why "Indians on the hill"..."the merry go round"...etc..etc.

[steveolongfingers]

Perhaps because little kids cant apriate Chopin or Bach......i still have a hard time with the latter....i think those books are set out for the younger ones

Not everybody has the love for music

Its also easier and more FUN to play mary had a lamb then a prelude and fugue or a etude.  God forbid i hate fugues....imagion playing them when you are 5 years old.....aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh.

And the fact that you are learning bits of techinique in a fun way when doing these method books.

All my students hate doing scales, but they do them when playing a fun song they dont even know they are doing it.

[Efarstan]

good point..

though..
makes me wonder if we did have 5 year olds learning fugues,  if we could have some more Bach's and Rachmaninoff's in our society and music would develop on a more sophisticated level..
compare Rap to Mozart..
LOL..

[chopiabin]

Mendelsohn's sister memorized the entire WTC by the time she was 13.

[steveolongfingers]

Maybe the music would be better.....but their poor little brains would explode, even i get frustrated playing the fugues from WTC.  Everything has to be SOOOOOOO perfect!

[Hmoll]

good point..

though..
makes me wonder if we did have 5 year olds learning fugues,  if we could have some more Bach's and Rachmaninoff's in our society and music would develop on a more sophisticated level..
compare Rap to Mozart..
LOL..

I don't know many 5 yr olds who have the aptitude to  play fugues.

[Hmoll]

I was wondering..
If someone wants to learn to play..
and they do "pure technique" exercises...
learn their theory..
THEN they can cut their teeth ( so to speak ) on
the WTC..or the Chopin Etudes..etc etc..

WHY do we go thru the "Thompson Piano course"..( only name that came to mind)..
why "Indians on the hill"..."the merry go round"...etc..etc.

The short answer to your ridiculous suggestion is most people would be bored to tears doing "pure technique"  and theory to the point that they are able to handle WTC, and/or Chopin etudes - if it would indeed be possible.

The second most obvious reason is, they would learn little about phrasing, timing, voicing, coloring and pedalling, all of which should be well covered before anyone endeavors to play either difficult Bach or Chopin.

[Efarstan]

Why thank you Hmoll for your most gracious response to a legitimate question.
I am sure such charm goes a long way in dealing with people who inquire about things in your presence.
How fortunate we are to have such responses regarding topics as they come up.

Do post again soon, I know we all are waiting with bated breath for your wisdom

[Hmoll]

Why thank you Hmoll for your most gracious response to a legitimate question.
I am sure such charm goes a long way in dealing with people who inquire about things in your presence.
How fortunate we are to have such responses regarding topics as they come up.

Do post again soon, I know we all are waiting with bated breath for your wisdom

Let me guess. You are being sarcastic.

OK, I owe you an apology. My tone could have been a lot nicer. I'm not in a good mood today, and it's not fair to take it out on you so, let me try again:

I don't agree with what you suggested because playing the piano  is an art form, and in order to learn it well and artistically there are aspects to it that go beyond what you would learn by simply playing pure technique.

Once again, you asked a legitimate question, and it was unfair of me to jump all over you. I'm the one who always says we are here to help each other, and I broke my own rule with the tone I took with you. Please accept my apology.

BTW, no one here is waiting with bated breath for my posts.

[eddie92099]

My tone could have been a lot nicer. I'm not in a good mood today, and it's not fair to take it out on you so

Tut tut tut,
Ed

[Jemmers]

Actually, Hmoll didn't sound all that mean to me. It was just a short-ish reply... might have sounded rude to sensitive ears.

Anyway, he's absolutely correct. It is unbelievably boring playing only technical exercises until such profiency is acquired as to be able to play Chopin Etudes (I'll ignore the fugues k? I hate them.).

It is important to remember that an education in music (for the piano in this case), is not just a package of technique, expression(and all it's components and nuances), and theory.
It is an entirety that should include cultivating the love for music. I remember hearing somewhere that someone actually considered Hanon exercises musical. He is, of course, an exception. (Esoteric tastes...)
So instead of force-feeding Hanon or Czerny, we try to develop technique via fun-to-play MUSICAL pieces. In fact, that is the whole premise of the Chopin Etudes, albeit on a titanic scale.
So think of every little piece they play as a mini-etude if you will.

[Efarstan]

My teacher did the Chopin Etude #18 ( the one in thirds) at the age of 9...auditioning for Stowkowsi?...not sure on name..

so thompson and the pieces mentioned ( farmer on the hill..the merry go round..etc etc) would be for a 2 year old?....
god thats depressing...

[Jemmers]

that's nonsense. Just because your teacher was talented doesn't mean every kid is. We must understand that very many people are actually NORMAL. They likely will never be able to play a single etude, instead learning to grade 8 (at approx. age 15) and stopping.

[Efarstan]

is it talent?..or starting so early?

[steveolongfingers]

I have found kids that start too early loose interest rather fast

[minsmusic]

though..
makes me wonder if we did have 5 year olds learning fugues,  if we could have some more Bach's and Rachmaninoff's in our society and music would develop on a more sophisticated level..
compare Rap to Mozart..
LOL..

[/quote]

Societies change.  Peer pressure is strong.  When today's mentaurs are THE WIGGLES what chance do we as teachers have trying to get a 5 yr old excited about some guy who died a hundred years ago.  

Today we have T.V., computer games, rollercoasters, Britney spears shakin her midriff at everyone, Fanta - that's a lot to compete with.    Even adults these days have short attention spans - you know T.V only goes for about 8 minutes and then there's an add.  

Everything has to be FUN these days or it just doesn't seem worth doing.

A different question would be, Would Mozart be the genius he was if his father bought him Nintendo and took him to the movies at least once a week? :-/

[Efarstan]

yes..both very good points...
its depressing...but I guess thats the way it is..

maybe this too..
would Mozart be a DIFFERENT kind of genius..a computer genius..if he had the nintendo...

I think we could use more artistic genius's than tech genius's..
hmmm....* thinking....

was on web and have found some sites on the interior shots of Gothic Cathedrals...and to ME ..its more impressive than a current high rise's..THOUGH..the high rise is more high tech..

does an artistics genius's work outlive a tech genius's work?..
only time can tell on that one perhaps..

[eddie92099]

does an artistics genius's work outlive a tech genius's work?..
only time can tell on that one perhaps..

"As a child I wanted to be an engineer and even told my father that it would be better to create a new machine that could reach the Moon than to compose a new symphony. Now I am ashamed of my words and I am of the opposite opinion!" Swiatoslaw Prokofiev, son of Sergei

Ed

[surendipity]

Mendelsohn's sister Fanny, didn't have a nintendo and died young of a stroke (go figure)

If Bach or Mozart or any of the other masters were alive, I'd love to see what they'd do with a Korg Triton.
And yes Mario Kart.

Bach wrote out his childerns studies everyday and they had their own note books, but they were not great works, just simple contemporary studies.

I think the Hector Berlioz would love Heavy Metal Music.

We go with what we know and what is IN.
Just like way back when.....

I introduce my students to the greats by having them recognize it in the now.

My all time fave of course
"Adagio for Strings:  Samuel Barber heard in the movie "Platoon"

Amazing.!!!!!!

And kids absolutely love to get on their horses and dance and sing 'Der Erlkonig" from Schubert
They often learn the words, really amazing.

And opera, love it, kids love it too.  Mozarts Queen of the night.  Oh.... what a glory that one is.

and Requims, wow, what power.

and Gregorian chants.  Now that was a service all onto itself.

But I'd advise strongly against  Midsummers Dream.
Whoa.... gets kids heart rates huge up there, not recomended.  Don't know why it does it but it does it better even than Berlioz walking the plank.  They hated Berlioz, too noisy they say..

Brahms,  ah now what child could not love Brahms.

But I won't ramble, got lessons to plan

[steveolongfingers]

Hector Belerioz would prabably dig metal like no other.  He'd be amazed what kind of sounds can be made with such little........and no canon or 1000 piece orchestra.