How good do you have to be to be a concert pianist

[hotlilgal]

I've got my heart set on being a professional pianist, but I know you have to be real good to get somewhere. Everyone says I'm talented, and some people say I'm outstandingly musical, but is that enough? I mean. I can work my self to death, and I really love music. I have perfect pitch and I can compose. I also sing. But do you have to be a genius? Because that I certainly am not. I lead a relatively balanced life- true, there are 4 hours or so of piano, and half an hour of singing, but I have friends, I socialise, and I enjoy exercise and sport. Do you have to be one of those freaks who have no friends and live in a little old house with no money, practising all day, forgetting about food and sleep to be a musician?

[comme_le_vent]

a girl implying that im a freak?  
ah, im used to it  

[Rach3]

Just my $0.02... the concert pianists I've studied with are quite social and well-balanced, hardly "freaks". They also tend to be geniuses, I'm not sure but that may be acquired over time if you practice enough or something.

Comme_le_vent is an entirely different story.

[dj]

hmmm i think maybe the genius part comes with time

[Rach3]

hmmm i think maybe the genius part comes with time

A nice, happy, optimistic thought to dwell on late at night while typing long academic essays...

[bernhard]

Have a look at the really respected great pianists. That's how good you have to be.

Depressing, is it not?

However some of them were not geniuses (Alfred Brendel comes to mind).

They were all obsessed with it though.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[comme_le_vent]

There are some pianists today that arent incredibly musical, i think the key factor for being successful today is technique. Is it really possible to be a concert pianist in this day and age without a great technique?
Look at Lang Lang - he has a great technique by most people's standards -  but his ideal place for showing it off is on jay leno - because he has the musicality of a circus pianist. Clearly he is riding on his great technique.

[Plaz]

Connections and good looks will also help, but only so far.

[meiting]

Hrm. Not to detract from any of the other posts, but.. most professional pianists are freaks. but then I'm talking about people such as Richter, Perahia, Lupu, Argerich, Schiff, Comme_le_vent, Pollini, Kissin, Thracozaag, Horowitz, Rubinstein, Gould, Janis, Kapell, Cortot, you know, not your run-of-the-mill pianist here who has a couple of concerts and teach. Even the more mentally stable pianists only sound/look stable to us cuz there are sides of them we don't know about, or at least that's what I believe.

Regarding the original question, you have to be very good.. but as much as I don't like saying this, girls get careers out of wearing less clothing. It sucks. but that's life. As a guy.. I can't do anything like that - imaging a guy wearing a leather thong onto stage, and start playing Schubert... eww. *shudders and pukes*

[BoliverAllmon]

Hrm. Not to detract from any of the other posts, but.. most professional pianists are freaks. but then I'm talking about people such as Richter, Perahia, Lupu, Argerich, Schiff, Comme_le_vent, Pollini, Kissin, Thracozaag, Horowitz, Rubinstein, Gould, Janis, Kapell, Cortot, you know, not your run-of-the-mill pianist here who has a couple of concerts and teach. Even the more mentally stable pianists only sound/look stable to us cuz there are sides of them we don't know about, or at least that's what I believe.

Regarding the original question, you have to be very good.. but as much as I don't like saying this, girls get careers out of wearing less clothing. It sucks. but that's life. As a guy.. I can't do anything like that - imaging a guy wearing a leather thong onto stage, and start playing Schubert... eww. *shudders and pukes*

a woman walking on stage in a leather thong then disgracing Schubert makes me want to puke.

boliver

[Jemmers]

The very thought of a woman walking on stage with a ladder thong.... then proceeding to play schubert just cracks me up. Won't make for a good pianistic show, but darn, that's good comedy!

[cziffra]

ever heard ali wood?  she's riding entirely on her cutesy appeal, i think-go to her site, www.aliwood.com, and hear her play CHOPSTICKS, for fucks sake.  and the ENTERTAINER.

[liszmaninopin]

I checked that mp3 list on that site; I hate to say it but that's sad.  I could put together a better mp3 collection than that if I had the technical know-how, and I've only taken lessons for 3 years.  Also, I would venture that most on this forum could, too.  Why no sonatas, etudes, concertos?  I have to admit, I got a good laugh off of Chopsticks.

[comme_le_vent]

but shes hot!
give her credit for that, it takes alot of pianistic skill to be hot


look...shes recorded islamey! amazing!

[cziffra]

don't leave the site if you haven't seen the videos, that's REAL talent.  she's so amazing-

if it wasn't for roger woodward, geoffrey lancaster and leslie howard she'd make me ashamed to be an australian pianist.  in fact, she's so sad, i'll start a new post about her-

[liszmaninopin]

But tons of pianists play Islamey-and I would guess that many do it better than her.

[Beet9]

Actually, I think that there are some top pianists that are normal.  I mean, if you don't experience life you won't play with imagination or any of that good stuff.  But you do have to be a fanatic.  And really talented.  Not necessarily a prodigy.  
But I think the most important thing is finding something that you can do, that no one else can.  You have to be unique.  
And who cares if the pianist so-and-so played the Chopin etudes at age 5? (well, maybe not 5)  You're going to do it your own way.  All you need is extreme dedication.  Just don't become a freak.

[anda]

how about helene grimaud and her "romantic" photos on her cd's?

i don't think a woman could get overrated just by looking good. as for the clothes... i've seen quite a few walking on the stage wearing clothes that show more than they hide, and you can tell exactly how she's going to play just by looking at her... common sense and good taste are basic requirements for any artist (at least i think so!), and if she doesn't know how to dress on stage, you can be sure she won't know how to play

[anda]

How good do you have to be? very good, very gifted, hard worker and so, so, so lucky!

[bitus]

It also depends on your final goal.... are you ambitious enough to be the best? It might sound foolish now, but it's the only way to face good and bad times. Don't get satisfied with what you know now... untill you reached perfection, you still have a long way to go.
Do you think Horowitz or Rubinstein ever thought they achieved perfection? But they started just like one of us, and they believed in themselves.
Let me remind you: 1% genius (inspiration), 99% hard work (perspiration).
Good luck ;]
The Bitus

[kosjenka]

Hi !
First of all you can have friends and bla, bla.. socialise  and it is not the thing of being a freak without money it is about loving music so much( music not piano itself) that  since you wake up and  until you go to sleep again you live and love music. And believe me it includes social life too.
Rachmaninoff  once said I an 85% musician and 15 % human.
My only advice ad the moment is that  if you really know what you know you just have to work your ass off and be really devoted and  the most  important one practice, practice, practice, read books, see good art pieces, plays, poetry, practice again....

[ludwig]

I agree that the most brilliant of musicians have freakish elements within in, whether in their lives or in their minds......However this applies more to composers rather than musicians (pianists), but it is still a fair statement to make none the less.

Anyways, back on topic, I believe to be a successful pianist you'll have to be

*unique, something that can draw people in, get them absorbed and find their performances "interesting" and brilliant

*have the basic requirements, technical excellence and an understanding of the music they are playing. Some insight, some sort of connection

*hard-working and actually enjoy the hard working aspect of being a great pianist (which is why I can never be one, cos I sometimes don't really enjoy practicing...

*loves to show-off, to dazzle, and have the personality to do that. Because after all, the most important thing about a performance is the fact that it "impressed" the audience greatly. Its something great pianists strive for and that sort of makes them crazy...hehe

[Sketchee]

Well I wouldn't say pianists are all freaks, but I will say many I've met have spent waay too much time alone.  Myself included.

[Emma]

^{*loves to show-off, to dazzle, and have the personality to do that. Because after all, the most important thing about a performance is the fact that it "impressed" the audience greatly. Its something great pianists strive for and that sort of makes them crazy...hehe}
I don't think that being a show off is a good quality in a musician. Certainly a great concert pianist should enjoy sharing his music with the audience, but his goal shoudn't be to impress, but to inspire. I am thinking of how inspired I always am after hearing Andras Shiff, who is an exceedingly humble performer, because his concerts are about the beauty of the music and not about impressing people with his ability or talent or performance style, like some other famous pianists, who, quite frankly, can be repulsive with their individual flamboyance.
I do agree that a piansit must have that "spark" of personality in his performance in order to connect with the audience - I just don't think that a person has to "show off" to inspire an audience. I prefer to hear a musician who leaves me with an impression of having listened to beautiful music, not "Wow, that was really impressive!"

[ludwig]

^{*loves to show-off, to dazzle, and have the personality to do that. Because after all, the most important thing about a performance is the fact that it "impressed" the audience greatly. Its something great pianists strive for and that sort of makes them crazy...hehe}
I don't think that being a show off is a good quality in a musician. Certainly a great concert pianist should enjoy sharing his music with the audience, but his goal shoudn't be to impress, but to inspire. I am thinking of how inspired I always am after hearing Andras Shiff, who is an exceedingly humble performer, because his concerts are about the beauty of the music and not about impressing people with his ability or talent or performance style, like some other famous pianists, who, quite frankly, can be repulsive with their individual flamboyance.
I do agree that a piansit must have that "spark" of personality in his performance in order to connect with the audience - I just don't think that a person has to "show off" to inspire an audience. I prefer to hear a musician who leaves me with an impression of having listened to beautiful music, not "Wow, that was really impressive!"

Yes true, being a good concert pianist does not always have to "impress" someone, but rather inspire them, but what aspect of their playing inspired you? You said that you prefer leaving a concert with the "impression of having listened to beautiful music" but what does that mean?

"im·press  
tr.v. im·pressed, im·press·ing, im·press·es
To affect strongly, often favorably"

To be affected by something so strongly is something that made an impresision on me, to the point that I was deeply inspired, and something that would remain with me for quite some time. So I guess it could be just a misunderstanding of being "dazzling" and "impressive". To me, these words are somehow connected to be "inspired", I might be wrong in my understanding but if something that was very impressive and I was strongly affected by it, it meant I must have been "inspired." However, being impressive sometimes also means that the pianist did something to a piece of music that was unique, different and effective, which is what I meant by "impressive" when referring to being a great concert pianist.

btw Emma, do all concert pianists have to be a "he"? hehe...

[hotlilgal]

k kool

[Nana_Ama]

ever heard ali wood?  she's riding entirely on her cutesy appeal, i think-go to her site, www.aliwood.com, and hear her play CHOPSTICKS, for fucks sake.  and the ENTERTAINER.

That's quite sad...

[scarbo87]

well most of the greatest (i mean only the absolute greatest)
ARE indeed freeks!!...

ie.....-Kissin never travles without his mother or teacher
       -Horowitz did't leave his ny flat for 6 months one                  time
       -Hefietz would bring, in a paper bag, his own dinner
         when invited by guests
       -Pogorelich crossdresse's in Parisian Salons
       -Beethoven himself was lonely and isolated

Then there are those more normal , of course....but it's
just interesting that the higher up the ladder you go..the
more eccentric ppl become.


"Get yourself an apartament in Manhattan and sleep with as many conuctors as possilbe"
          - Tar Tchetuev

[chopinrules2005]

Her performance is.... horrendous.

[Motrax]

Just as many pianists are (or were) perfectly normal. Rachmaninoff, though having a reputation for being moody and withdrawn, was pretty sociable in familiar company. Olga Kern leads a relatively normal life, balancing single-motherhood and a concert career nicely. Santiago Rodriguez teaches at a university and leads a perfectly fine existance.

No matter what you do, in fact, it is possible to lead a "normal" life. Sometimes it requires a little more effort, but it's always possible.  

[chopinsetude]

         I ask myself that same question sometimes, "How good do you have to be to be a concert pianist".  I immedietely forget about the idea because my teacher went to the Moscow State Conservatoire, and his skills absolutely blow my mind at every lesson.  His piano playing leaves me breathless.

...and while he toured for a while in his life, I don't think he considers himself good enough to maintain that level anymore.  He is 60 years old and has played the piano hours a day since he was 6 years old!  I don't think I could ever compare my skills to his - even 10 years from now.  If he doesn't/won't/can't, then how could i?

[Max]

I think its more who you know in the business these days..

[rhapsody in orange]

Will handspan in anyway affect how good a pianist you are? i mean.. having a handspan of hardly a 9th i can hardly play liszt or anything 'big stuff' like that.

[bernhard]

Will handspan in anyway affect how good a pianist you are? i mean.. having a handspan of hardly a 9th i can hardly play liszt or anything 'big stuff' like that.

It has marginal importance. There are plenty of superlative pianists with small hands, the most famous being Robert Henry, Meiting, Joseph Hoffman and Alicia de La Rocha. They all play (played) the standard Liszt and Rachmaninoff pieces.

Of course you will have to adapt your technique to your hands size/shape, but then everyone needs to do that. There is no such a thing as the “perfect piano hand”.

Alternatively you could always do what Joseph Hoffmann did and order a piano from Steinway with slightly smaller keys.

Have a look at these two threads:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=perf;action=display;num=1078232341

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=perf;action=display;num=1043539957

They discuss hand size.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Spatula]

There is no such a thing as the “perfect piano hand”.

Wasn't Rach's hand considered one of the greatest things of the human anatomy in relation to piano?  I thought I saw an article about some university wanting to make molds of his hands and study the structure..

the 3 phalanxes and whatever else...

[Max]

But tons of pianists play Islamey-and I would guess that many do it better than her.

And at a younger age.

Also..

"Observes a musicologist: "Chopin's Polonaises are too difficult for any except the strongest and most agile virtuoso; they are entirely beyond the reach of the amateur"

Hehehehe.