Composing forum

[quantum]

As per discussion:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,21047.0.html

It would be nice to have a forum where we could discuss composition.

[leucippus]

It would be nice to have a forum where we could discuss composition.

I Second the Motion

[pianistimo]

too bad we all don't live a bit closer.  back in california - i just happened to walk into someplace in la where they were holding a 'film composers' live forum.  so, i put on a badge and sat down in the back row.  low and behold they all started giving out their secrets right and left.  i didn't understand a lot of it - but it was interesting.  imagine that people who know how to use the most recent software are having the most fun.  most people probably don't have all the tools they need.  but, really, i guess all one needs is some manuscript paper and a pencil.  then, later input it and add stuff.  if i knew anyone around here that had the computer stuff - i'd bring some things that i've already written.  i started composing in highschool and wrote some stuff in college that was fairly open sounding (ie poulenc) and modern - yet sounded tonal.  poulenc probably was my inspiration because he writes in a key - but does not use that key's tonal center.  he will pick a note - and emphasize that note to the exclusion of the others.  and soon - it becomes the main note (tonal center).  you cannot call his music atonal, though, because it is definately written in a key.  at least this is my understanding of poulenc's compositional techniques.  some of his music is modal sounding.

before getting into doing some serious composition - it would be nice to have a thread (for those of us who have been out of it for some time) to go through the different compositional techniques of various composers.  and, to practice a similar page to page and a half of that particular item.  seems that when you have a pallet of things to choose from - then you are actively using the brain instead of ONLY sitting at the piano and plunking out things that sound good.  of course, that's ok, too.  but, i think the real talent lies in expanding beyond the comfort level that becomes laziness.  doing the same types of composition over and over.

it would be nice to know if there are any comp. teachers on the forum.  perhaps, also, they could give some ideas as to things to practice or workbooks.  i happen to love workbooks because they don't skip steps that are important to understanding a certain process.  doing it all by ear - you skip some things.

btw, i fourth the motion.

[ihatepop]

I Fith the motion!!!!!!

Wheres nils when you need him?

ihatepop

[pies]

I object the motion

[phil13]

I would LOVE to have a composers forum on this site.

I reinstate the motion and hereby sixth it.

Phil

[ihatepop]

I object the motion

Why? Is it because this is a piano forum, not a composition forum?
BTW, there are such things as piano conpositions, you know. \

ihatepop

[Derek]

I think it'd be great. Perhaps it would be focused on piano composition, however, since this website's scope is piano music.  Then again, any forum on composition will reflect back on the piano in some way..since all the great composers were great pianists as well!

[preludium]

Bumping the thread...
I express interest if I have a say in that matter.

[ihatepop]

BUMP

ihatepop (uhatepop 2 )

[keyofc]

I lost count!  but I think it's a great idea!

I was thinking wouldn't it be great to really work together for awhile in composing - and meet somewhere once a year?

Live?  Share ideas - share music - etc.

I would be willing to help a little.

[johnny elfboy]

i would like this to

[imbetter]

a composing forum would be wonderful

[gwk]

I think this is a brilliant idea...just what we need!

[phil13]

That's at least 10 people who would enjoy a composing forum, and I know there have got to be more.

Nils, are you considering this?

Phil

[elevateme_returns]

all in favour say i

[imbetter]

i

[phil13]

I

Phil

[nilsjohan]

Nils, are you considering this?

Yes.
How about some kind of gerneral music board where we can put the Music Theory board and the "Composing forum" as sub-boards?
Any other suggestions for a new structure of the forum?

[imbetter]

we could always have the composing forum as a seperate board

[phil13]

Yes.
How about some kind of gerneral music board where we can put the Music Theory board and the "Composing forum" as sub-boards?
Any other suggestions for a new structure of the forum?

I agree with Ibty- make Composing a separate board, and put the Music Theory sub-board inside that. It would fit better there than where it currently is.

Phil

[nilsjohan]

Thanks for your suggestions but don't you think this forum is missing a board for general music discussions? Currently such topics appears in Anything but Piano and Miscellaneous which is not really what those boards are intented for.

[imbetter]

yes i have noticed that acctualy. when you first presented this idea I didn't quite understand what you meant by a general music discusion board.

I do think that's a good idea acctualy.

[phil13]

If so, then your original suggestion seems the best fit, Nils. Put the Composing and Music Theory sub-boards inside it.

Phil

[mattgreenecomposer]

I know this thread is old and all but I just ran across it today and want to comment if the idea is still up in the air......as a  composer.

There are other forums for music composition on the the internet.  I have joined 2 of them (the 2 biggest ones) and to be honest I spend all my time here.  The composers I have ran across on these forums (not piano forum) are extremely uneducated and totally rude.  I am going to let you in on a secret, an unfortunate fact that plagues us "serious composers"--- most people who major in composition at music school do so because they can't get a degree in any thing else!  Yes it is twice as much work but unfortunately in today's liberal school system, ANY form of composition passes without real knowledge of music theory or orchestration as long as the composer can back up their work as being sincere in front of a Jury.  As a holder of 3 college degrees I know how the system works.  We can't hurt peoples feelings and tell them their works sucks and no one will buy it in the real world.  We have to let them pass so they will pay a huge tuition which will support our salary.  And in addition, they don't have to even play piano at all to major in composition.

On the other hand Piano Forum has great people for the most part.  I think it's safe to say Piano requires more skill and time to master than any other instrument (hope Im not stepping on anybody's toes there.)  People who are really great are generally humble because they know there is some 9 year old playing the same Chopin Etude on You Tube ten times better than them somwhere on the internet.  and those of you who talk like your awesome never post anything-(you know who you are.)
Let's keep it just piano here and if you want to start a composition thread than I think that's great.  But if you start a composing forum thing here, I think your going to regret the type of people it brings for the most part.  Thanks for reading.

[m1469]

Thanks for your suggestions but don't you think this forum is missing a board for general music discussions? Currently such topics appears in Anything but Piano and Miscellaneous which is not really what those boards are intented for.

oohhhh... I never saw this post.  I think that's a great idea .

btw, Matt, I responded in your other thread and in a nutshell, I say bring them here  .

[pianochick93]

A composing forum would be great. For my IBMYP project next year ( aschool thing) we have to make/write/build something so I thought I would write a song.

Me having absolutely no experience at stuff like that, it would be great to have somewhere to ask for help, and read tips.

[goldentone]

Thanks for your suggestions but don't you think this forum is missing a board for general music discussions? Currently such topics appears in Anything but Piano and Miscellaneous which is not really what those boards are intented for.

Yes, that's a great idea.

[soliloquy]

I oppose.  The ratio of people on this forum who could adequately post in a composition forum is something along the lines of 100:1 (obviously in favor of the inadequate), and we know that a pretty big chuck of that "100" is going to show up in there and turn it into a joke.

[ahinton]

I oppose.  The ratio of people on this forum who could adequately post in a composition forum is something along the lines of 100:1 (obviously in favor of the inadequate), and we know that a pretty big chuck of that "100" is going to show up in there and turn it into a joke.

I would like to think that you are wrong about this, but I fear that you may not be (and some people might even seek to turn such a forum into yet another God thread)...

Best,

Alistair

[mike_lang]

a pretty big chuck of that "100" is going to show up in there and turn it into a joke.

Chuck, eh?  Sounds delicious!

[soliloquy]

Chuck, eh?  Sounds delicious!

Compelling argument.  By the way, as I have stated before, I have Dysgraphia, which is basically the writing form of Dyslexia.  I would venture a bet that despite this I have less typos and misspellings in the combined body of work on here through oh... all 6 or 7 accounts I've had than you have on just your one.

[mike_lang]

Compelling argument.  By the way, as I have stated before, I have Dysgraphia, which is basically the writing form of Dyslexia.  I would venture a bet that despite this I have less typos and misspellings in the combined body of work on here through oh... all 6 or 7 accounts I've had than you have on just your one.

I don't misspell frequently - but I wasn't rebuking you - just expressing my sympathetic admiration for a good chunk of roast beef!

[pianistimo]

i have an idea - but i'm not sure that everyone will want to do it as it might sound a bit - mish-mashed.  what if each one of us got a turn to be 'teacher of the week.'  we present some item of composition (whether most have learned it - or only a few) and give ways of practicing whatever it is.  then, people post some composition using that type of chord progression or style or whatever it is that someone is explaining. 

maybe to compose an entire piece in a certain way would take too long - but a phrase or two or even measure or two would be entirely easy and fast.  also, you could tell if your concept took hold. 

 i do not that there are 100:1 uneducated students on here.  part of the problem is having the opportunity to practice what you learned and keep it in your brain.  i think i could learn a lot from alistair, mcgillcomposer, derek, mattgreene, and many others - and i've gone through 3 college music theory courses (having forgotten a lot of orchestration stuff).  if we keep it piano for a while - it might be easier.  although composing entails being able to imagine and if you can't imagine other sounds then you are stuck with ONLY piano.

i'd like to be able - at my peak - to orchestrate something and have piano within it.  not necessarily a piano concerto per se. perhaps a new form.  one that nobody has come up with yet.  and not a blended form.  alistair has probably already done this 100x by now.  in fact, perhaps alistair should be the first teacher here.  explaining a bit of sorabji or some of his own work and what holds works together.  what is the glue.  my question right now regarding sorabji is that he seems so confident that perhaps it is merely the confidence of playing that keeps it sounding fresh and moving. 

too bad we cannot have simultaneously - the ability to display some pieces of art that we've seen that affect us a certain way.  a sort of audio visual approach.  just like sorabji had to architecture (or was that xenakis?).  soliloquy - are you on the same page yet?  i saw an interesting table and chairs today - a very glossy table and these sort of metallic colored curvy chairs - but they didn't have anything except lower back support and were cut off about 5-6" up the back.  it had a very modern look - and appealed to me because of playing piano and usually not leaning back anyways.  but, did wonder about people falling over backwards.

[m]

soliloquy - are you on the same page yet? 

Not sure about Soliloquy, but to be honest, I lost you long ago.

I however think that in the following copule sentences I got a grip to your ideas.
I can say that despite the fact I am not really a fan of very glossy tables and those metallic colored modern looking curvy charis, I understood your concern about people falling over backwards from those chairs.  All I can say, it truly speaks about you as a good citizen, as a person with high humanistic principles who is not indifferent to human misfortunes. Unfortunately, I cannot say it about myself, and the saddest thing, not that I even care 

My pick on that situation is that those who potentially could be exposed to the hasard of aforementioned "falling over backwards" by no means should get anywhere close to those chairs.

Moreover, I think the manufacturer of those chairs should put a note of warning and some kind of disclaimer for mishandling of their products, in order to protect themselves from the possibility of being sued.

This way the manufacturers could still produce questionable items, while being protected from some idiots falling over backwards from the said chairs, but  because the warning was issued that's already none of our concern, right?

From this standpoint I highly doubt that separate board for composition needs will be of any help or drastically change things on this particular board, as any topic will wtill be easily converted into either chair manufacturing matters discussion (as this particular thread shows), or even worse--into religious discussion.

Best, M

[pianistimo]

marik - i was merely pointing out that music is not an art that stand alone.  you have to have atmosphere. 

[soliloquy]

i saw an interesting table and chairs today - a very glossy table and these sort of metallic colored curvy chairs - but they didn't have anything except lower back support and were cut off about 5-6" up the back.  it had a very modern look - and appealed to me because of playing piano and usually not leaning back anyways.  but, did wonder about people falling over backwards.

marik - i was merely pointing out that music is not an art that stand alone.  you have to have atmosphere. 

You're banned from the composition forum.

[counterpoint]

I can say that despite the fact I am not really a fan of very glossy tables and those metallic colored modern looking curvy charis, I understood your concern about people falling over backwards from those chairs.  All I can say, it truly speaks about you as a good citizen, as a person with high humanistic principles who is not indifferent to human misfortunes. Unfortunately, I cannot say it about myself, and the saddest thing, not that I even care 

Cool, humour is back in pianostreet 

[ahinton]

You're banned from the composition forum.

Interesting it is how you appear to assume that you can ban someone - indeed, anyone - from a section that has yet even to acquire existence on a forum of which you are not even a moderator; is this indicative/illustrative of some kind of unholy(!) mix of prescience and seizure of authority on your part?...

Best,

Alistair

[Derek]

How about instead of a composition forum, a "Piano Composition & Improvisation" forum? There are plenty of websites about composition overall, but this is a piano website for heaven's sake. Let's at least stay on topic. We shouldn't spread ourselves too thin.

[soliloquy]

Interesting it is how you appear to assume that you can ban someone - indeed, anyone - from a section that has yet even to acquire existence on a forum of which you are not even a moderator; is this indicative/illustrative of some kind of unholy(!) mix of prescience and seizure of authority on your part?...

Best,

Alistair

You better watch your step Terry.  You don't want to challenge my omnipotent authority on the pianostreet composition forum (licensed trademark, all right reserved by soliloquy) or you'll be banned too, and this would be a shame.

[ahinton]

You better watch your step Terry.  You don't want to challenge my omnipotent authority on the pianostreet composition forum (licensed trademark, all right reserved by soliloquy) or you'll be banned too, and this would be a shame.

First of all, who's Terry?

Secondly, if there were to be such a forum on pianostreet and you were in charge of it, I would see no obvious reason to challenge it for the sake of so doing (although I cannot speak for Terry, whoever that is).

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

gradus ad parnassum used to be online.  what happened to it?  i had read quite a bit of it online and now can't find it.  here's a site - but nothing happens when you click it:

www.gradusadparnassum.com

another site that is more helpful right now is:
https://www.uark.edu/ua/muth/counterpoint/Counterpoint.html

and, another site lists some important treatise's on theory and counterpoint:
https://contrapunctus.com/home.htm#treatises

[ahinton]

Still no sign of that elusive Terry; I wonder what soliloquy has lately done with that as yet unknown person?

Best,

Alistair

[pianochick93]

I oppose.  The ratio of people on this forum who could adequately post in a composition forum is something along the lines of 100:1 (obviously in favor of the inadequate), and we know that a pretty big chuck of that "100" is going to show up in there and turn it into a joke.

What about another "chuck" of that 100 who havn't started composing yet, but would like some advice on how to start?

There will always be people who ruin a certain type of board for other people, but that doesn't mean that it isn't benificial to the people who use it seriously.