Studying piano AND working...

[Clare]

Hi there.
It has been said to me in this forum that because I'm about to study at a conservatorium in the cockroach-racing capital of the world, Australia, I will have an easier time of things as the standards here aren't quite as high as in America or Europe.
That's probably totally true, but still, I am only one of nine pianists accepted into this school, so competition will still be pretty tough and a lot will be expected of me.
My problem is, unlike the other piano students, I don't live with Mum and Dad. I have to work to support myself.
Do you think working 20 hours a week is too much? I would especially like to know how the people who have studied piano at a tertiary level managed time and whether they worked at all.
Thanks in advance for your insight.

[bernhard]

It will very much depend on the work.

If it is some soul-destroying job (e.g avon salesman, bank cashier, lift operator, Uk Prime minister - you get the idea) then even a couple of hour sof it may get you too rundown to face practice and hard study later on.

I would strongly suggest you tried (if possible) a piano related job (teaching or performing), since this would take care of a large part of your studies as well (I never knew so much about theory/harmony since when I started teaching! I never need to practise scales, since I teach them every day) This way your free time can be for the work you cannot cover with students or at the piano bar. This way your job would be furthering your musical studies instead of being regarded as taking time from it.

Good luck,
Bernhard.

[ChopinFreak]

Hi!

I think my case is not comparable (if that word exists in english).
I'm 26. I started with my teacher 5 months ago after being "playing" the piano on my own for a year. I played pop songs and the like but now i'm into classical.
I work 40 hours week and can't find the time to study and advance as I would like to.
My playing has improved over this months but my biggest letdown is sight reading. I'm REALLY bad at it. Frustration is starting to build up and I fear it can become and inmense wall infront of me (Bernhard, any advice on that?   )
I'll really like to go to a conservatorium but i feel i don't have enough time to study plus the age problem.

To my standards 20 hours a week is nice. I mean you have lots of free time to study. But i agree that a piano related job would be better. Is there a piano shop needing your help?.  just a sugestion.

[bernhard]

Hi!

My playing has improved over this months but my biggest letdown is sight reading. I'm REALLY bad at it. Frustration is starting to build up and I fear it can become and inmense wall infront of me (Bernhard, any advice on that?   )
.

For sight reading advice, have a look at these threads in the forum:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1073131731

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1069725044

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1071914342

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1057746417

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1045438109

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1061861871

Best wishes,  
Bernhard.

[Clare]

Thanks for the replies, guys.
I'm working 40 hours a week at the moment before I start at the conservatorium, and I can only fit in maybe two or three hours a day practice.
I play in three bands (only one of which I play piano) so I guess that also counts as practice. I also do play in bars and stuff with the piano band. I don't know whether playing bass in a hardcore band counts really, or does it? I guess I'm learning a different type of music there, so I suppose it's all good.
Anyway, my job is as an architect. So, basically, I draw toilets and basins on the computer all day long. I think it's probably an OK job to have in terms of not being too worn out to practice piano, but the stupid chair at work does give me a sore back. In a way, I'm scared to let this job go and work in a piano-related field because I've had this job for three years and it's a security blanket, but I'm going to leave it eventually, so I might as well do that soon, I guess.
Don't let the age thing bother you, ChopinFreak! I'm 25 and I got into my first-choice conservatorium (admittedly this was after I started when I was 12 but I don't think your late start should hinder you at all really). I think some places might only take people under 21, but that's OK. You can just go to a different one.
I think it's a real bother having to practice and work full-time, and it's a bit easier for me because I know I'll be working part time soon so I can put up with it. But I've found that if you can get an hour or two in of the boring bits of practice you have to do before work, you'll want to do some fun piano stuff after work for another hour at least.
As for sight reading - just keep at it and don't ever get annoyed at yourself! Reading music becomes easier and easier all the time, and you'll be totally fluent in it soon.

[ChopinFreak]

Thanks for the links Bernhard!!

Now I have links to check for all day long  

[bernhard]

You are welcome!

[bernhard]

the stupid chair at work does give me a sore back.

Have you tried one of these slanting chairs? They are brilliant. Unfortunately they cannot be used for piano practice because you will not be able to use the pedals (they are all right for “pedalless” practice though).

[CDS814]

hey,
I have a similar problem. I am a strait A high school student in all honors and AP classes, involved in scouts, the school concert, marching, and jazz band, saxophone lessons (not serious about that like i am with piano), and a member of John Hopkins Center for Talented Youth (intelligence based, not musical unfortunately). I hardly ever have the time or energy to practice what it seems should be the minimum for a conservatory hopeful (4-6 hours a day, i get 3 at most on weekends, and 1.5 on weekdays). Do conservatories consider these things i have described, or is it only musical talent they take into account and i should drop some of these things to get more time to practice? Thanks

[eddie92099]

All they want to know is how well you play,
Ed

[Clare]

I wish I could get a groovy chair but I don't think I'd be allowed here (even though all I seem to do at the office is surf piano forum which seems perfectly acceptable for some reason).
I figure I won't have a sore back when I'm only working here 20 hours a week. At least this job doesn't have loads of typing which could wreck my fingers.
I'm still freaking out about things secretly in my head, but first year piano can't be as bad as fifth year architecture, can it?.......

[ted]

Clare:

On the face of it you have a lot going for you. You are qualified in a profession many would envy, and which you can always fall back on should the bottom drop out of your musical adventures.

It would seem to be largely a question of balancing a busy life, the necessity of earning a living and artistic ideals in a manner which produces maximum happiness. Uncomfortable chairs and drawing toilets evoke very negative images of your job. I know one or two architects and they derive much creative satisfaction from designing highly original structures - and they are paid very well for doing it. Their work surroundings are very comfortable and they think about a good deal more than toilets.

Are you sure you haven't simply ended up in the wrong firm ? It is perfectly possible to excel in more than music - Charles Ives did.

[Clare]

Well, I am drawing a kitchen today...
My firm is a pretty good one, but being an architect is something my parents wanted me to do, not me, so that's why I'm not so happy here. I always wanted to do piano, but my parents said they'd refuse to help me, so I had to wait until I finished the course they wanted me to do and I could support myself and pay my own fees. It is super that I've got another career to fall back on, though. I'm pretty lucky.
Everyone else in the firm loves it here, but I'd much prefer fiddling around in a tiny room on a piano for eight hours a day.
Didn't Tchaikovsky study law before becoming a composer? I don't know. Charles Ives is a good example.
I feel a bit better now.

[ted]

Good on you, Clare. Musical passion is not incompatible with common sense, that's just a Hollywood myth. At fifty-six I'm faced with the same conundrum in a different form - deciding when to retire and balancing comfort, duty to family and duty to my own music. I am a creator rather than a performer but the issues are much the same.

When I was your age I was a brazen romantic and abandoned a promising career in mathematics to work on the waterfront to buy a grand ! My parents went spare. Luckily the then burgeoning computer revolution provided me with indefinite employment and the ability to marry and provide for a family. I certainly wouldn't get away with it these days !

I think you are very much on the right track.

[DAwud7]

Chopin Freak Actually your situation is comparble almost exactly same as mine. I started piano about a year ago on my own and have been studying with a teacher for the past couple months. On my own i learned by ear and using my computer things like a chopin waltz mazurka and a scriabin and henselt etude. When i got too starting teaching my teacher wanted too teach me too read, we fought i coudl not pick it up at all but now it seems we are doing something that sparked my intrest and that i can actually work with. My teacher is letting me use pieces that i like too practice reading with, instead of starting me on some begining books. So like we started with a Felix blumenfeld prelude opus 17no22 and i just started writing in all the notes that i didnt know and he helped explain too me all the rthmic ideas of the piece and how it should be played, Anyways this is working im starting too recognize notes when i look at sheet music now. This was like last week when we started and it sucks really at first but it honestly is helping me. I had my lesson today actually i learned what he had told me too learn plus extra i learned part of a lyadov MAzurka that i like. And indeed i do plan too study in a conservatory i started at 20 im 21 now. I also work 50 hours a week and it is a stupid job i hate i find it very hard too focus on piano but i luv it. So far i have only completed about 6 pieces highlight would be Scriabin etude opus 8 no4 and a puerto rican Danza by tavarez called Margarita. Im also working on 8 pieces right now including a Arrangemnt of Art Tatum, Albeniz granada, Henselt etude Were i a bird,Drangosch argentinian etude opus 14 no4, a scarlotti sonota,and other things. But still if your intentions are going too a college too study piano Go for it.

[ChopinFreak]

Hi DAwud7:

Nice to find someone more or les in my position, always hepls  

As I can read you play more pieces than I do. My "repertoire" is very tiny.
J.S Bach: Prelude nº1 C WTC. Started to work with the inventions
Schumman: Military march
Mozart: A little piano piece, don't remember his name.
Satie: Gymnopedie nº1 (still working on it)

That's the classic repertoir plus some pieces for Czerny buy I consider it to be technical work.
I also play some.... let's say... pop songs that i like and try to work them out by ear.

Thanks for your support on the college thing. But i have to admit that I'm quite frightened with the idea.  

See you around.

Regards.

[Clare]

I just had my first meeting with my new piano teacher at the conservatorium. I asked him whether it was realistic to work 20 hours a week, and he basically said, "No. Study must come first before work." He said people only worked like 8 or 10 hours a week at most. PLUS he's telling me I have to start all new pieces - I'm not allowed to play any of the things I've been trying to get perfect in the last two years and must start from scratch again.
This music course is starting to look like a nightmare. I just want to be able to play what I want, and be able to afford basic things like food, you know?

[bernhard]

There is a famous Chinese course:

"May you live in interesting times"

It seems like you are about to live in some interesting times...

In spite of what your teacher may say, all that teachers are interested in are results. He does not really care if you practice ten hours a day or one minute, as long as you can deliver. He probably believes that only by practising ten hours a day a student can deliver, but this is a different issue.

So it seems that you have broadly two choices:

1. Enlist yourself into the belief system of your teacher and practise ten hours a day.

2. Or figure out a way to deliver the goods with as little practice as possible.

Personally I believe you can get away with very little practice, but you must know exactly what you are doing.

In the end this may be a blessing in disguise.

Good luck! (you will need it!)
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

By the way, I hope you haven't told him your previous repertory.

This way, you can always claim it is a new piece!

[Clare]

Dude, he TRICKED me!

He made me write down a list of all the stuff I'd been practicing, and THEN he told me I wasn't allowed to play any of it!
He's a wily one.

I wouldn't be nearly so worried but I'm actually a pretty slow learner due to the fact my technique is still slightly awful (but is in the process of getting fixed).
And now, to top it all off, I have to look after my Auntie's cat for the next two months! Man.

I think I'll try your point no. 2, Bernhard.

[bernhard]

What a scallywag!

Shake his hand and apply technique no. 2 in here:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=perf;action=display;num=1077945311