\"\"
Piano Forum logo

idil biret and brahms (Read 7417 times)

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
idil biret and brahms
« on: November 19, 2006, 01:16:54 PM »
i happened to hear idol biret play the entire op. 118 of brahms and was stunned.  i didn't know that much about her? berfore - but i was entirely enraptured by her playing of the op. 118.  does anyone else feel similarly?

Sheet music to download and print: Six Pieces by Brahms



Offline kempff1234

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #1 on: November 19, 2006, 01:46:59 PM »
i happened to hear idol biret play the entire op. 118 of brahms and was stunned.  i didn't know that much about her? berfore - but i was entirely enraptured by her playing of the op. 118.  does anyone else feel similarly?

I don't like her Chopin at all. I think she studied with Cortot or Kempff for a short while.

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #2 on: November 19, 2006, 02:48:04 PM »
it would surprise me if she learned what she did about brahms from cortot.  although, if she played chopin badly - it wouldn't have been because of cortot, imo.  i think some performers just play some composers better than others.  the brahms was extremely well thought out and yet spontaneous.

Offline nicco

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1191
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #3 on: November 19, 2006, 02:57:55 PM »
i happened to hear idol biret play the entire op. 118 of brahms and was stunned.  i didn't know that much about her? berfore - but i was entirely enraptured by her playing of the op. 118.  does anyone else feel similarly?

She sure isn't my idol, mrs Idil.
"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #4 on: November 19, 2006, 03:28:15 PM »
oops.  idil.  sorry.

Offline pianowolfi

  • PS Gold Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5658
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #5 on: November 19, 2006, 03:58:10 PM »
I bought a cd of her with Rachmaninoff. I didn't like it at all. To be honest, I was horrified :-X. I don't have this cd anymore now... but maybe she has made different recordings that are very good.

Offline nicco

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1191
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #6 on: November 19, 2006, 04:21:08 PM »
Her repertoire is out of this world. Unfortunately most of what ive heard is horrible.
"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline cmg

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1042
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #7 on: November 19, 2006, 05:29:02 PM »
Well, pianistimo, I'm with you.  I think she's recorded most of the Brahms solo work for Naxos and, to be frank, some of the playing on it ranks right up there with my favorite interpreters.  Her Chopin is uneven, but much of it is excellent.  I think her Ballades are terrific.  As for the Rach, well, I also think much of it is quite beautiful.  The Preludes, particularly.

Her various concerto recordings don't thrill me much, I have to say.  Some are just poorly recorded and others lack real fire and drive. 

For those of you who don't warm to her solo playing, what is about her that I am missing?  I really would appreciate your opinions on this.
Current repertoire:  "Come to Jesus" (in whole-notes)

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #8 on: November 19, 2006, 06:44:28 PM »
thanks for the encouragement about the idil biret and the brahms.  i really haven't heard her play anything - and so this was a first hearing, really, for me.  guess that everyone has a certain 'expectation' from recordings they like.  i really have never heard any better of the brahms op. 118. 

Offline pianowolfi

  • PS Gold Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5658
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #9 on: November 19, 2006, 07:01:33 PM »

For those of you who don't warm to her solo playing, what is about her that I am missing?  I really would appreciate your opinions on this.

It was Rachmaninoff's second sonata which is recorded very rarely. I play that sonata and was looking for recordings. So i listened to Biret. I was so horrified because it sounded as if she had not learned the work carefully. It sounded like she was sightreading it. Excessive rubatos without reason. Hesitating, getting stuck at the difficult parts etc.. But as i said before, I can't judge about her other recordings. Perhaps she plays a really beautiful Brahms.

Offline Kassaa

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1576
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #10 on: November 19, 2006, 08:17:12 PM »
It was Rachmaninoff's second sonata which is recorded very rarely. I play that sonata and was looking for recordings. So i listened to Biret. I was so horrified because it sounded as if she had not learned the work carefully. It sounded like she was sightreading it. Excessive rubatos without reason. Hesitating, getting stuck at the difficult parts etc.. But as i said before, I can't judge about her other recordings. Perhaps she plays a really beautiful Brahms.
You played the first, not the second :P . Anyway, I don't like her recordings at all. It sounds like she can't handle the technique, it sounds cold and far away.
Everything will pass, and the world will perish but the Waldstein Sonata will remain.

Offline pianowolfi

  • PS Gold Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5658
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #11 on: November 19, 2006, 10:00:03 PM »
You played the first, not the second :P . Anyway, I don't like her recordings at all. It sounds like she can't handle the technique, it sounds cold and far away.


Yes  :-[ of course you're right rofl ;D I'm so confused these days. Now other people even know better what I played than myself lol.

Offline pianohenry

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #12 on: November 21, 2006, 10:20:09 PM »
i have idil biret playing Schumann Kinderszenen, Tchaikovsky Album for the Young, And debussy Children's corner.

I think all of them are nasty (well golliwogs cake walk isnt so bad) - she plays with a really detached style. she holds notes when (i think) they shouldnt be detached, and she stops short on a note which feels like it should linger. quite unsettling to listen to, nothing youd expect to happen happens. the other recordings i heard of kinderszenen were much nicer.

but, i actualy have another recording of idil biret (i cant remember what it is,) all i can remember is that it was a really really good one. Strange...

i think the top pianists all want to have "their own" interpretation of pieces, and sometimes they struggle to make it different and end up doing it completely different from how it should sound, just to make it different from everybody elses.

Offline Waldszenen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1001
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #13 on: November 22, 2006, 01:28:46 AM »
With no need to blabber on, in short, she plays rather terribly.
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline kempff1234

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #14 on: November 24, 2006, 07:28:50 AM »
With no need to blabber on, in short, she plays rather terribly.

Which makes me wonder what did Kempff and Cortot see in her?

Offline jre58591

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1772
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #15 on: November 24, 2006, 05:55:56 PM »
ive only heard biret's ligeti and a broadcast performance on a boston radio station which included ligeti, brahms, and chopin. some of the worst playing ive ever heard. it was completely devoid of al life, feeling, color, and even in some places, technique. invest your money somewhere else.
Please Visit: http://www.pianochat.co.nr
My YouTube Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=jre58591

Offline Waldszenen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1001
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #16 on: November 25, 2006, 05:37:30 AM »
Which makes me wonder what did Kempff and Cortot see in her?

The weekly fee. Time is money.
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline pianowolfi

  • PS Gold Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5658
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #17 on: November 25, 2006, 12:36:36 PM »
I think she would be a great pianist if she played only 1% of her current repertoire and spent more time on working things out more in depth.

Offline adagio1

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 22
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #18 on: November 25, 2006, 05:11:31 PM »
I like Idil Biret.   Try listening to the items on http://www.idilbiret.net/Archive/musicarchive01.htm

After listening and playing and performing all my 64 years..... I have come to conclusion that music is an art.   Not a science.   Critics may be necessary for some but I think the first thing a critic should do is play some of the items they discuss.   Why do I like Biret?  The music moves me.  Especially the Chopin.   
Music is sort of like religion.   Some people are so sure they know the right way they forget to live and enjoy it.
Did you ever wonder how some people choose their mates?   Make a list?  Make sure they do things right?  How can so many people choose mates who just do not do things right?  Perhaps we need to have mate festivals.   Distinguished guests could evalaute mates on how they do things the right way just like at music festivals.   
This mate is too slow in the kitchen...... this pianist plays Chopin with too much rubato.  hmmmm but I like rubato.    I like a slow wife.   Oh well.  I realize many musicians KNOW the right way to do things.   I have dealt with many of them.   I am going to my piano and sit down and play a whole bunch of consecutive fifths and end my cadences with dominant 7ths then play my thumbs on every black note I can find.  That will make me feel better.
 ;D

Offline pianowolfi

  • PS Gold Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5658
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #19 on: November 25, 2006, 06:03:33 PM »
I like Idil Biret.   Try listening to the items on http://www.idilbiret.net/Archive/musicarchive01.htm

After listening and playing and performing all my 64 years..... I have come to conclusion that music is an art.   Not a science.   Critics may be necessary for some but I think the first thing a critic should do is play some of the items they discuss.   Why do I like Biret?  The music moves me.  Especially the Chopin.   
Music is sort of like religion.   Some people are so sure they know the right way they forget to live and enjoy it.
Did you ever wonder how some people choose their mates?   Make a list?  Make sure they do things right?  How can so many people choose mates who just do not do things right?  Perhaps we need to have mate festivals.   Distinguished guests could evalaute mates on how they do things the right way just like at music festivals.   
This mate is too slow in the kitchen...... this pianist plays Chopin with too much rubato.  hmmmm but I like rubato.    I like a slow wife.   Oh well.  I realize many musicians KNOW the right way to do things.   I have dealt with many of them.   I am going to my piano and sit down and play a whole bunch of consecutive fifths and end my cadences with dominant 7ths then play my thumbs on every black note I can find.  That will make me feel better.
 ;D


Very good remarks adagio 1!

Offline franzliszt2

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1003
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #20 on: November 25, 2006, 07:01:19 PM »
I cannot stand Biret. Her playing is just intolerable. She takes rubato so far that it becomes different tempo. Listen to her Chopin 4trh ballade, it's awful. Her Rachmaninoff transcriptions CD is just beyond bad. She just randomly rushes the semiquavers in the Bach Prelude. It's stupid.


Offline Waldszenen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1001
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #21 on: November 26, 2006, 07:20:40 AM »
Finally, someone I completely agree with.
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline piano121

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #22 on: December 13, 2006, 07:46:19 PM »
I have the complete chopin etudes by Biret, donīt like it.

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #23 on: December 13, 2006, 07:51:25 PM »
try simple things like the brahms and handel's minuet in G minor (wilhem kempff transcription, i think).  they're stunning.  i'm talking about things that people just gloss over and don't even play.  she plays even simple things with a lot of thought.  imo, she's a polar pogorelich.  i've heard him live.  he does similar but different things.  slows the tempo.  who complains?  nobody.  it's a feminine thing.  men don't like female pianists.  they feel intimidated.  it would be too much to compliment a female who does a pretty good job.

for the record, i'm not a feminist per se even!  i just like to hear whomever is playing and give them the benefit of the doubt as to the composers they play best.  i think women intuitively put 'more' into simple melodies because they feel it on a deeper level.  love for instance.


Offline iumonito

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1404
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #24 on: December 13, 2006, 11:10:37 PM »
try simple things like the brahms and handel's minuet in G minor (wilhem kempff transcription, i think).  they're stunning.  i'm talking about things that people just gloss over and don't even play.  she plays even simple things with a lot of thought.  imo, she's a polar pogorelich.  i've heard him live.  he does similar but different things.  slows the tempo.  who complains?  nobody.  it's a feminine thing.  men don't like female pianists.  they feel intimidated.  it would be too much to compliment a female who does a pretty good job.

for the record, i'm not a feminist per se even!  i just like to hear whomever is playing and give them the benefit of the doubt as to the composers they play best.  i think women intuitively put 'more' into simple melodies because they feel it on a deeper level.  love for instance.



Watch it with the stereotypes.  Are we having a problem with Argerich, Hess, Olga Kern, Joyce Hatto?  Saying that men don't like women pianists reveals very little attention.

Only heard Biret doing Liszt's Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique and it was quite listeneable.  She and Fazil Say are the two best Turkish pianists I know of.
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline piano121

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #25 on: December 14, 2006, 11:49:28 AM »
  men don't like female pianists.  they feel intimidated.  it would be too much to compliment a female who does a pretty good job.


Thiz not trhu. Iīm a male, and I like very much several female pianists.

How about Alicia deLarrocha? sheīs briliant. Maria João Pires, outstanding pianist. Argherish... god. i have no words to say about her. Uchida... she is so great...

Personaly, I think woman are indeed more capable of doing lotīs of things than men. I think woman are better musicians and  beter  politicians to. I hope eventualy woman will fill the most important roles in the wolrd politics, and Iīm shure they will do better than men, simply because they can see it in a diferent way, taht men just canīt. Probably they are not going to be so corrupt as men either.

Anyway, form what iīve heard, Idil Biret sucks, and itīs not because sheīs a woman ;)

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #26 on: December 14, 2006, 12:42:04 PM »
why do you say, 'from what i've heard.'  can't you listen a bit more before you take other's decisions as your own?  i think everyone has to decide for themselves - and it's best done by actually hearing them play more than one composer.  if you've only heard chopin - try brahms.  i think  she's the best i've heard for the op118.  very unusual.  very artistic. 

there's not that many 'artists' in the world.  there are performers.  but, artists bring something different.  imo, she's an artist.  she's not afraid to express music as she hears it.  and, she brings out those 'inner voices.'  have you ever heard someone play about as blandly as a can of tomato soup.  i mean - you have  'flat line' and either the piano is dead or the pianist is dead.  i would never say this of idil biret.

Offline pianowolfi

  • PS Gold Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5658
Re: idol biret and brahms
«Reply #27 on: December 14, 2006, 12:54:07 PM »
men don't like female pianists.  they feel intimidated.  it would be too much to compliment a female who does a pretty good job.


Also for me this is not true at all :) Nope nope nope! ;D Just recently I have listened to some music by a female pianist that touched me deeply.

Offline piano121

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #28 on: December 15, 2006, 07:56:06 PM »
why do you say, 'from what i've heard.'  can't you listen a bit more before you take other's decisions as your own?  

Iīm not taking other peopleīs decisions as my own. Otherwise I would say she is great because you said so. I was teling waht i think based solely on my experience. Wich happens to be the same opinion of other people here. Anyway, all unanimity is dumb, so iīm not inclined to be black and white here, i can perfectily accept the fact that she is a great performer for other composers with no problem, even though i donīt like her chopin.

You know why I donīt like it? I think specialy the etudes, are to uneven, and she canīt sing the beautiful voices. Take for exemple number 1. There is that passage around 30sec. when sudenly it gets pp. That thing is like taking me to a roler coaster ride, its like that shiver on the way down. There are lots of pianists that can get that nice efect on that passage. Take the record from Dorian Grinner, on this website, imo, he does it so much better than her. Probably this lack of detaisl in her interpretations comes from the fact thta she deals mith lots of stuff in a short period of time. Maibe, as some one already pointed out, if she just have recorded less, she could have a much deeper sense of interpretation on waht she is doing.


if you've only heard chopin - try brahms.  i think  she's the best i've heard for the op118.  very unusual.  very artistic. 

I shure will.

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #29 on: December 15, 2006, 09:49:30 PM »
ok.  actually i haven't heard the chopin yet myself - so, i take back what i said.  and also, pianowolfi and you probably weren't chauvinistic after all.  just liking or not liking how she played.  ok. 

Offline thaicheow

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #30 on: December 17, 2006, 03:13:54 PM »
Sigh, alot of critics and listeners take offense agaisnt idil biret. I wonder why.

I should say, though not all her playing is perfect, and neither I like some of her playing (too much rubato, too undertone on some suppose-to-be heavy handed work), I still love her. I watched her life performance b4, and it was some of her life playing of chopin that moves me to tears. Popular songs played so many times by others, but she can bring out something in depth. Those songs do grow with her.

And how many sleepless night and difficult moment in my life  that her music has accompanied me. She played with fine emotion, and with a femine sensitiveness and humble subtlety. Most importantly, she plays like a human!

You may know more about her:

http://www.idilbiret.org/ENG/IBe13.htm






Offline nocturnelover

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #31 on: January 21, 2007, 01:58:45 AM »
Hello I'm new, and as my name would suggest I LOVE Nocturnes (obsessed would prob be more accurate). I am apart of a few piano forums now and have had to endure my favourite pianist getting SLLLAAAAMED by almost everyone. That's right FAVOURITE pianist. I must admit that I have only really heard her nocturnes, but this is because I only started piano a year ago, so I do not have a great knowledge yet, but I found her cd per chance and I'm glad I did because she has the best interpretation of Chopin's Nocturnes IMO. I have heard others but it was PAIN to my ears e.g. Arrau absolutely terrible. Say what you will about her other works but her Nocturnes are what inspired me to play piano. There is no possible way that she doesn't have passion and fire in the way that she plays!!

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #32 on: January 21, 2007, 03:29:16 AM »
i'm so glad you agree!  i mean - i know it's a personal thing - but i am deeply touched too.  i finally bought the book of nocturnes and want to play them more than the etudes.  i'm kind of relating to ms. biret because there's so much music out there and you don't HAVe to play fast or play perfectly.  but, if you play with feeling for the music - it really makes a difference to the ears that hear. 

will have to get her rendition of the nocturnes.  of course horowitz is really great for the waltzes and the polonaises.  my mother used to play this one record over and over and over.  that's why i sort of hated chopin for a while (who can beat horowitz's interpretations?) - but now - i think i understand him better.  he's sort of a 'mature' composer for many people like me - because the technique always requires something challenging - and yet you have to make it sound effortless.

even the preludes have some challenges.  i mean - i worked a few last year and the first one, in particular, has some fingering details that if you don't work out - there's no way you can play it smoothly to the end.  i think chopin had really long fingers, too, which must have helped him.  anyways - i bought the chopin nocturnes about a week ago - and i am working them too!  such great fun. 

Offline nocturnelover

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #33 on: January 21, 2007, 06:29:50 AM »
I too have gotten the Nocturnes book in the hopes that one day I might master them all!!

Offline Kassaa

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1576
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #34 on: January 21, 2007, 07:46:58 AM »
Omg, I just was going through my music library and I listened to her Brahms Scherzo op. 4. I almost puked, a complete lack of technique and any musical idea just raped the complete piece. It is so ridiculously slow it sounds like she just started practicing the piece. There's not any tension in the beginning, just a smash of notes. It's a shame she is actually a jury member in some major competitions like the Liszt competition.
Everything will pass, and the world will perish but the Waldstein Sonata will remain.

Offline elevateme

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
Re: idil biret and brahms
«Reply #35 on: January 23, 2007, 06:07:16 PM »
her rach transcription of flight of the bumble bee is so uneven
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)