Alexei Grynyuk - the Octave Marvel

[dnephi]

Anyone heard his Paderewski comp?  Rachmaninoff Etudes like I've never heard them before.

[minor9th]

Yes, I like his slower playing alot too, but then - people who can play slow music well are a dime a dozen.

People who can play octaves like that are, well, you know..not.

Please don't change my statements when quoting me (for some reason, I can't get it to show up as a quoted quote)--there's a grammar error in it now!

[thalberg]

On first impression, just hearing the octaves of the HR6, I thought it was sloppy and emotionless and nothing special.

But then I listened to the complete version several times and concluded he is not emotionless at all.

Then I listened to argerich several times, and cziffra several times....

And I think Cziffra is cleaner, but this guy is definitely faster, and he is both faster and cleaner than Argerich.

I think argerich could do better though, maybe she was lazy when she recorded this piece. 

[nasalstein]

speed itself is not so important imo.
i mean, do you listen to recordings with a metronome cliking beside you?
what matters most, at least for me, is the feeling, nuance, whatever,  the playing brings.
in short, how it sounds.
you care how many notes are played in a certain amount of time?let playerpiano do it.
ever heard horowitz's HR6? though his is not the fastest, nor loudest HR6 ever, it sounds far better than others.
have a listen and tell me what you hear.

btw, i heard gavryluk a few days back and felt that he performed sincerely.
ultimately, imo, one cant judge someone truly before he dies.
let's hope that gavryluk shall be a true artist.

[simombarerus]

A do-be acrobat.

[leonidas]

Adobe Acrobat, do be a acrobat.

Legendary debut.

[simombarerus]

Legendary debut.

Sorry, a lingo-debut, rehearsal needed.

[opus10no2]

I've seen better  23 (51.1%)

Names, people?

[m]

I've seen better  23 (51.1%)

Names, people?

I did not vote, but to name a couple, Anton Mordasov (who played this piece since he was 11y.o.) and (esp.) Vladimir Bakk--nobody ever had such quality of octaves in this piece, where every single one pierces the air like a little laser.

[tds]

it'd be good if he could try to music it.

[opus10no2]

I did not vote, but to name a couple, Anton Mordasov (who played this piece since he was 11y.o.) and (esp.) Vladimir Bakk--nobody ever had such quality of octaves in this piece, where every single one pierces the air like a little laser.

?

[m]

?

 
Sorry, I don't understand...

P.S. BTW, just out of curiosity, have you ever heard Bakk? Either the name, or his 6th Rhapsody?

[opus10no2]

Only from you, provide a link and I'd listen.

[aewanko]

?

Da SDC?

anyway, he's nothing special.

[opus10no2]

Show me faster octaves.

Web definitions for special
 particular(a): unique or specific to a person or thing or category

[rob47]

Show me faster octaves.

do these count?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IRUnEuFPcFY

and if not I'm a hundred percent sure I could play faster octaves (in top form, not schumanned as I currently am). thats right

having said that of course I have the utmost respect for Alexei "Super 8 Motel" Grynyuk

[m]

Show me faster octaves.

Once again, I don't quite understand you. First, you ask "if you seen better", then you ask the names. I give you a clear answer and provide at least two names, which in my mind are much superior in quality, musicality, and just sheer virtuosity in this rhapsody. I think you would agree, any normal person at least would expect to have at least some curiousity about who are those folks. Instead, you even without having any slightest idea about whom, or what I am talking about for some unexplainable reason chose to post a picture of a stopwatch    .
Then finally, you are asking about "faster octaves". Could you please first, deside for yourself what is the point, what you want to know, and then clearly define your criterias? If your point was who is the fastest, most uninteresting, and on top of that also the messiest, then indeed, Mr. Grynyuk is the clear winner, albeit (to be fair), I have to admit he has some quite remarkable virtuosic abilities.

Best, M

[burobbi]

he's mad. one of the fastest, but definitely argerich, hamelin and horowitz are his match. there's a reason why horowitz's octave technique is famously legendary.

this guy needs more music, and clean up a touch more, and off he goes.

[opus10no2]

Instead, you even without having any slightest idea about whom, or what I am talking about for some unexplainable reason chose to post a picture of a stopwatch    .

..and a question mark, asking what speed they played at, their timings.

Of course I'm interested.

I suppose I chose 'Better' to intentionally cause debate over this.

But the debate didn't go anywhere, it depends on personal priorities, and now all I want to know is if anyone can play faster octaves than this guy, sustained,in passages like these.

[tds]

this if off topic, but, opus, if u take a break from worrying all about speed and concentrate on other aspects of music-say only for two week or so-you'd be one step better a pianist than you are now. i dont just think so, but i know so. tds

[opus10no2]

Some people just don't 'get' it.

[c0nfused]

Ok, I don't actually care about who is the fastest octave player in the world, but i saw this topic and Argerich immediately came to my mind. I don't know if she is any faster, maybe you should count notes in slow motion so that we can get the octaves per second rate.. Anyway here are 2 videos of her playing:

Tchaikovsky 3rd part octaves:

Liszt 1st concerto beginning:

[enderw20]

Some people just don't 'get' it.

Just curious about what is not "gotten"? I'm not arguing with you, I have never seen octaves that fast for that long, to me it's an amazing feat of manual dexterity that I could not imagine anyone surpasing, at least not until I see evidence of it myself. But if you were refering to tds as the one not "getting" it then I have a question for you, isn't the whole point of playing to become better? I would have to agree with tds that focusing solely on speed will limit your ability as a pianist.

[richard black]

Never mind the octaves, what about his left hand in HR6? He's wasted playing classical - he should be a stride pianist!

[opus10no2]

But if you were refering to tds as the one not "getting" it then I have a question for you, isn't the whole point of playing to become better? I would have to agree with tds that focusing solely on speed will limit your ability as a pianist.

I was refering to tds..and I do recognise speed as an important aspect ofmusic making, but of course just one of many.

I also recognise speed, dexterity, and agility as admirable and important elements outside of music making.

It's like football players thinking track athletes are silly just for focussing on one thing - speed.
Track athletes will respond that football is great fun,and a great sport,  but that their pursuit is more pure, and exhilirating.

[enderw20]

I was refering to tds..and I do recognise speed as an important aspect ofmusic making, but of course just one of many.

I also recognise speed, dexterity, and agility as admirable and important elements outside of music making.

It's like football players thinking track athletes are silly just for focussing on one thing - speed.
Track athletes will respond that football is great fun,and a great sport,  but that their pursuit is more pure, and exhilirating.

Fair enough

[m]

It's like football players thinking track athletes are silly just for focussing on one thing - speed.
Track athletes will respond that football is great fun,and a great sport,  but that their pursuit is more pure, and exhilirating.

Yeah, but when you go to see a football it is not your intention to see how fast the players would suddenly start running like idiots from one side of the field to another. I sincerely hope if you want to see those kind of activities, you'd rather prefer to go to watch track athletes, don't you? In this case, at least their fast running would make some sense, wouldn't it? Or am I missing something?

In any case, yes, I have somewhere on an old tape cassette Bakk rhapsody. From memory, he starts pretty slow, then little by little increases speed, which while you are sitting, makes your legs start dancing along with the music. I am sure he actually finishes the last part FASTER than Grynyuk.

Needless to say, the quality of playing is quite remarkable, and just the sheer effect he creates is pretty stunning.

Best, M

[opus10no2]

I am curious about the Bakk, does sound amazing.

About the football analogy, of course it's flawed, the form in which to present pure speed playing at the piano couldn't be a typical piano recital.

I still think there would be an audience, however the priorities would be switched, pieces would be played but Speed would be the Art, music would be the sideshow entertainment

[tds]

Some people just don't 'get' it.

i guess ur rite

[mike_lang]

music would be the sideshow entertainment

Rather, music would be the victim...

[tds]

Rather, music would be the victim...

haha mutilations

[opus10no2]

Rather, music would be the victim...

Art does require sacrifice

[enderw20]

Rather, music would be the victim...

By no means do I agree with Opus but I can see where he is coming from, he admits that he recognizes that it takes many different aspect of technique to make a complete pianist, but he just finds that speed is the most intriguing, I could harldly fault him for that, I admit myslef that exstrodinary displays of speed are facinating. But I could see where someone could take issue with the way he presents his arguments...

[kelly_kelly]

Here's a video of Bakk if anyone's interested:

[michel dvorsky]

Here's a video of Bakk if anyone's interested:

I'm loving this performance so far. Thanks so much for the link.

[pianoita]

It's a live performance without speed up, octaves starts at 5.10 but all the piece is well played.

Please, give me your opinion!

[john11inc]

Not saying it's good, but the speed is definitely unmatched.

[learner of liszt]

Play the octaves at the end of Alkan's "Le Preux", then we'll discuss "Octave Marvel".

[lostinidlewonder]

Octaves?? pfft they are so easy to do who cares if you can do it well.

[pianisten1989]

He doesn't play it very impressive imo.
It's like La Campanella. The beginning is fairly easy, so everyone just  ruch and plays it fast as hell. Then it becomes more and more difficult, and the decrease the speed.

This guy starts off quite fast, then he doesn't develope it. It sounds more like an octave exercise. And exercises are quite boring and unimpressive.

And about the toccata: What's the of playing it fast when it's so unarticulated that none ever will hear the notes?

I can play the 4th chopin etude at least as fast as richter. But none will hear the notes. Who would be impressed by that?

[kard]

don't feed the troll 

[michel dvorsky]

I can play the 4th chopin etude at least as fast as richter. But none will hear the notes. Who would be impressed by that?

I doubt that.

[musicalita_23]

There are way too many 'musical' pianists out there, we need more pianists with more tehcnical excellence and the abandom to unleash this kind of meteoric warpfactor 8 speed.

Technique is only the tool that pianists use to display their emotion. The more technical ability they have, the easier it would be for them to show that deeper emotional side of music. Unfortuantely, people have a tendancy of thinking that technique and musicality are two seperate things, and lean on one or the other. This guy, for example, is leaning on the technical side of music. But what is music if there's no musicality?? Music has its purpose of desplaying a certain emotion, a sentiment, a story, so why on earth would we care how fast he can polay those octaves? If there is no goal in the piece he is playing, then the speed does not matter.
I find his octaves are fast. Okay, congratualtions.

[sashaco]

Opus,  Since speed purely for its own sake is simply not pursued by serious pianists, nobody would take much interest in a speed competition of the kind you describe.  Who can name the man who can hit the worl's longest golf ball?  No one.  But everyone (particularly at the moment) can name the world's best golfer.  You have no idea how fast, say, Horowitz, could have played octaves if he weren't ashamed to let anyone hear a rough banging mess.  You're putting Grynyuk into a competition of one- in a sport no-one cares about but yourself.  It's as if I posted a film of myself painting a house in record time and expected everyone to gasp in awe and consider it great art because I can do it faster than Rembrandt.   As you said above, some people just don't get it.

[slobone]

I actually like Grynyuk's performance. It might not be my favorite, but there's nothing wrong with it, especially if you listen to the whole thing.

And you have to allow for the poor quality of the recording. If you were in the hall at the time it might have sounded really terrific.

[ekrium]

I DON'T care how old this topic is.................

Amazing, no?

I can play the 4th chopin etude at least as fast as richter. But none will hear the notes.

I am tempted to call BS... but I don't know of course.

This is great, but Argerich's are just as good, and cleaner....

I knew quite a few individuals who could play the HR6 at least as fast, but with more control and quality, and most of all much more interesting, musical, with more charm, grace, and abondon, this music asks for. 

Also tempted to call BS here, as greatest pianists like Marta struggle.......

...far more musical than this Grynyuk clown.

blabllabla...
Walter Ramsey

The HR 6 is faster than Cziffra, but about 1/10th as exciting.

I like Cziffra's rendition as he knows - and stays within - his limits. But it's Liszt! Those octaves need power and strength...

It's just fast and rather sloppy.

My !&$%ing GOD... THIS is exactly why I haven't joined such childish, moronic, stupid and PATHETIC piano forums ever.... I read through all this crap and I can't believe some of you people!!! Like that Walter Ramsey guy, always noting his name at the end of his posts looking reeaally cool and mature, until you vomit at some of his retarded page 2 comments.
(Although I must confess, a lot of the stuff at page 2 was ridiculously amusing)


First: blond jokes... Originates from the saying that a girl can't be smart at the same time being really pretty. This relates perfectly to those lousy arguments on Alexei Grynyuk...

-<-^***FACTS***^->-

This is the BPM speed of each pianist, their starting speed and end speed;


Alexei: 133 - 144

Marta: 128 - 139

Horowitz: 120 - 135

Vladimir Bakk: 109 - 132

Mauro Bertoli: 123 - 130          ------ A link was earlier posted to this guy

Cziffra: 128 - 129

Might seem small differences, but they matter a lot to the listener - and the difficulty!

Alexei is superior. NONE of the others match him in speed and volume, he is the loudest. When Marta reaches her top speed her octaves are reaaaalllyyyyy sloppy... you barely can't hear them either. She is struggling a bit at the first speed too, and it's like she wont accept it, and tries to bang away even faster... something only amateurs do, usually.... I really can't believe second post saying 'just as fast and cleaner...' *sigh* just pure ignorance
I'm not saying Alexei has perfect clarity and control, he misses an octave a couple times, messes the LH chords and the short first two HT octave runs. The third time it's clear, and then the chromatic run afterwards right before the ending is also clear.

Someone said earlier that the most difficult section is the unison, both hands doing octaves. This is NOT correct. After the first LH octaves, the LH does some 4-note CHORDS. Listen closely, not a SINGLE ONE of the mentioned pianists plays this correctly with ease and beauty.
7 consecutive chords are to be played at same speed as the octaves, repeated 3 times!

Actually the one who accomplish this best, is that unknown guy 'Mauro Bertoli'. He has to slow down a little, but he plays ALL 3x7 chords, being the only one... respect


Now... what is Liszt? Liszt is inter alia; speed, virtuosity, technical excellence, loudness/power. Liszt loved extreme technique, and strength. He famously sometimes put technical display above artistic expression. A common critique so let's not deny that...
Also the HR 6 octave section isn't some sort of incredibly beautiful melodic line that should be caressed with utmost love and care! It's fast 16th octaves, P at first, developing to sempre forte, and then PRESTO. Needs speed!

Vladimir Bakk was mentioned a couple times, I like his performance, but come on... it's a recording. He had more time to become familiar with the piano, and warm up his octave technique directly before playing the HR 6. And if sh*t happened, well he could just try again....
Alexei is live, and much faster! Some random Yamaha he had to perform on and didn't know properly, probably! Don't tell me he couldn't play as clear as Bakk if he slowed down and did a recording LOL marik....ZzZzZZzz... I believe he could do his insane tempo perfectly well under such better circumstances.



Jealousy is such a distasteful human emotion :-(
To put in perspective what Grynyuk accomplished, think of the OP of this thread. His name is op 10 no 2, the etude of Chopin. That etude is tempo marked 144 - same as Grynyuks octave speed! ~10 NPS! Or, as you might say, 10 OPS - octaves per second... insane.

Liszt was verryyyy fond of quick octaves, and would definitely have loved Grynyuks speed.

[keyboardclass]

Somebody help!  We've been invaded!

[pianowolfi]

Somebody help!  We've been invaded!

We? Who is "we"? 

[thalbergmad]

My !&$%ing GOD... THIS is exactly why I haven't joined such childish, moronic, stupid and PATHETIC piano forums ever...

Leave then

[iratior]

Well, there's no disputing that Grynyuk's performance of Liszt is quite inimitable, but is he playing the Sonata in B as the composer wanted?  In terms of rhythmic precision, Grynyuk is butchering the piece, and in terms of articulating the harmonies, he's butchering the piece that way too.  I was expecting to be far more impressed.