Prokofiev-like Repertoire Suggestions

[minnielala2]

I would like to learn Suggestion Diabolique from Prokofiev's Four Pieces for Piano, but my hands are not large enough to reach all the keys. Does anyone have any suggestions for pieces that are similar to this? I love how demonic it sounds.

[pies]

I love Prokofiev but I must admit that I still haven't listened to Suggestion Diabolique. Look into his piano sonatas (specifically 3, 5, 6, 7, and . Or the Toccata op. 11, but it is quite difficult. Not sure if any of these are 'demonic' enough for you.

[jpowell]

There are many pieces by Mosolov, Deshevov, Polovinkin, Ornstein and others that are in this vein. They are all Russian contemporaries of Prokofiev.

[soliloquy]

There are many pieces by Mosolov, Deshevov, Polovinkin, Ornstein and others that are in this vein. They are all Russian contemporaries of Prokofiev.

Incorrect.  Ornstein is American, and none of the others are his peers.  They belong to a set of composers referred to as either "Futurists" or "Soviet Avant-Garde", not Neoclassical.  Basically they are late Scriabin on speed and cocaine, and in nearly all cases will be far too advanced, both musically and technically, if you are working your way through pieces at the level of Suggestion Diabolique.  Hamelin himself refers to Roslavets, another of that ilk, as the most musically advanced composer ever, and Mosolov, and ESPECIALLY Polovinkin, along with Protopopov or Rothenburg, are even more so.  I advise staying away from them.  They are only half a step down from early Sorabji, with about ten times more dissonance.


Look into the first movement of Bartok's Sonata Sz. 81

[bflatminor24]

Daymn. Demz peesis sowndz kon uf difficults, maybees ill lurn demz by memery. shud tayke me like tu dayz er like maybees three  at the moste.

[mephisto]

Incorrect.  Ornstein is American, and none of the others are his peers. 

Err, Ornstein was born in Russia. He did indeed move too America. Chopin moved to France, but he was never French. My father has lived in Norway for 20 years, he don't consider himself norwegian.

Ornstein ended up being an american citizen, but I would consider it as correct to call him Russian as American.

[burstroman]

Look at the Sonatas of Alberto Ginastera.

[jre58591]

Look at the Sonatas of Alberto Ginastera.

this is WAY beyond suggestion diabolique in terms of basically everything. the 2nd and 3rd sonatas are some of the most insane things ive heard.

[verywellmister]

I have the perfect suggestion.  Prokofiev Sonata no.2 in d minor, 2nd movement.  it is similar to Suggestion Diabolique but a lot easier.

Good luck

[minnielala2]

I appreciate everyone's suggestions. And actually, I have already learned the 2nd movement of Prokofiev's Sonata no. 2--it's not quite as diabolical as Suggestion Diabolique.

[bflatminor24]

Someone already suggested this, but it's perfect.

Toccata in D minor, Op. 11. It's a bit harder then the Diabolical Suggestion but if I can do it, so can you.

~Max~

[soliloquy]

Err, Ornstein was born in Russia. He did indeed move too America. Chopin moved to France, but he was never French. My father has lived in Norway for 20 years, he don't consider himself norwegian.

Ornstein ended up being an american citizen, but I would consider it as correct to call him Russian as American.

He did almost all of his composition in America- in fact, it is possible he did ALL of his composition after moving to America, as his earliest dated work is from 1911, and he emigrated in 1907, and also did not become any sort of figure until his emigration either; he is definitely considered an American composer, especially seeing as how he moved to America when he was 14 (young, yes?) and gave his premiere concert in America.

[pianistimo]

george antheil?

[franz_]

Try some of his etudes.

[mephisto]

He did almost all of his composition in America- in fact, it is possible he did ALL of his composition after moving to America, as his earliest dated work is from 1911, and he emigrated in 1907, and also did not become any sort of figure until his emigration either; he is definitely considered an American composer, especially seeing as how he moved to America when he was 14 (young, yes?) and gave his premiere concert in America.

No where did I say that you where wrong - try to read all of my post, and see all of the subtle nuances. But you are of course wrong about him composing all of his music after he moved to America.

[iumonito]

He did almost all of his composition in America- in fact, it is possible he did ALL of his composition after moving to America, as his earliest dated work is from 1911, and he emigrated in 1907, and also did not become any sort of figure until his emigration either; he is definitely considered an American composer, especially seeing as how he moved to America when he was 14 (young, yes?) and gave his premiere concert in America.

That reasoning would make Rachmaninov, Schoenberg, Stravinsky and Bartok American composers.

...and you flammed Jonathan Powell.  He is a great pianist and from what I have read a very fine and unpretentious person.  If I was you I would apologize and buy all his records.   

[mephisto]

I was shocked too. Jonathan Powell is a great pianist, and most likely a very nice person too. Congratulations too him, that he plays great music like Sorabji and Feinberg, who are sadly underplayed.

[soliloquy]

That reasoning would make Rachmaninov, Schoenberg, Stravinsky and Bartok American composers.

...and you flammed Jonathan Powell.  He is a great pianist and from what I have read a very fine and unpretentious person.  If I was you I would apologize and buy all his records.   

Hmm.  Where to begin.  If you take what I said as to mean that anyone who has ever composed in America is an American composer, by that reasoning I could just as easily make the connection that the point of YOUR post is that you like Keebler cookies more than Chips Ahoy.  Now you may ask, "where in the world would you get that from my post?", but I feel I would be justified in asking how in the world you misunderstood my post to such an equally flagrant extent.


https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Aflammed

Flammed?  I don't believe I have ever flammed before in my life.  I have FLAMED, and possibly flambéed, but surely not flammed.  I have NOT, however, flamed Jonathan Powell, or flambéed him for that matter.  I would ask you to direct me to what exactly you classify as either.  I only ever remember discussing his pianistic technique in comparison to that of Ian Pace's; if I said that my dog does not have the technique that Ian Pace has, I'm sure he wouldn't be offended.  It would not particularly surprise me if Jonathan Powell is not offended either.  Oh, and just to avoid it, because I'm sure one of the drama queens will make an issue of it, no I am not comparing Powell to a dog.  And no, that does not mean I am saying "there is no comparison between Jonathan Powell and my dog because surely my dog is just infinitely superior."


@ mephisto: Am I "of course" wrong?  Please, give me a name of a dated, publicated (or assuredly real) piece by Ornstein that was written pre-1907, the date of his emigration.  I'm looking at the site Ornstein's son has made in homage to Leo, and I don't see one.  Maybe I'm just missing it?

[iumonito]

Hmm.  Where to begin.  If you take what I said as to mean that anyone who has ever composed in America is an American composer, by that reasoning I could just as easily make the connection that the point of YOUR post is that you like Keebler cookies more than Chips Ahoy.  Now you may ask, "where in the world would you get that from my post?", but I feel I would be justified in asking how in the world you misunderstood my post to such an equally flagrant extent.


https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Aflammed

Flammed?  I don't believe I have ever flammed before in my life.  I have FLAMED, and possibly flambéed, but surely not flammed.  I have NOT, however, flamed Jonathan Powell, or flambéed him for that matter.  I would ask you to direct me to what exactly you classify as either.  I only ever remember discussing his pianistic technique in comparison to that of Ian Pace's; if I said that my dog does not have the technique that Ian Pace has, I'm sure he wouldn't be offended.  It would not particularly surprise me if Jonathan Powell is not offended either.  Oh, and just to avoid it, because I'm sure one of the drama queens will make an issue of it, no I am not comparing Powell to a dog.  And no, that does not mean I am saying "there is no comparison between Jonathan Powell and my dog because surely my dog is just infinitely superior."


@ mephisto: Am I "of course" wrong?  Please, give me a name of a dated, publicated (or assuredly real) piece by Ornstein that was written pre-1907, the date of his emigration.  I'm looking at the site Ornstein's son has made in homage to Leo, and I don't see one.  Maybe I'm just missing it?

No wonder you end up talking just to yourself.  I spelled flamed with two ms.  You wrote a pedantic and inaccurate post that sounded very rude to me, and you wrote it in response to a helpful, and very insightful post by a great artist, whom graciously enough has not engaged in a wasteful dialogue with you.  I guess we both (you and me) have sinned.

Don't flam yourself, though.  Flammed is indeed a word (not the one I intended, but neverthelesss a meaningful one).  I amuse myself with the thought of what being sillier, to look up flammed and make a big deal out of it, or to actually not be able to find it.    Admitedly, replying to you is down there, and I should be remiss to do it again.

We digress, though.

[mephisto]

@ mephisto: Am I "of course" wrong?  Please, give me a name of a dated, publicated (or assuredly real) piece by Ornstein that was written pre-1907, the date of his emigration.  I'm looking at the site Ornstein's son has made in homage to Leo, and I don't see one.  Maybe I'm just missing it?

Try reading an Ornstein biography...

[soliloquy]

No wonder you end up talking just to yourself.  I spelled flamed with two ms.  You wrote a pedantic and inaccurate post that sounded very rude to me, and you wrote it in response to a helpful, and very insightful post by a great artist, whom graciously enough has not engaged in a wasteful dialogue with you.  I guess we both (you and me) have sinned.

Don't flam yourself, though.  Flammed is indeed a word (not the one I intended, but neverthelesss a meaningful one).  I amuse myself with the thought of what being sillier, to look up flammed and make a big deal out of it, or to actually not be able to find it.    Admitedly, replying to you is down there, and I should be remiss to do it again.

We digress, though.

Don't you think it is a bit hypocritical to respond to a reply I gave to you that had both points addressing the topic AND some admitted pedantry, with a response that is ONLY pedantry and ONLY addresses your horrible typing?  Now, once again, I will have to ask you to direct me to this post you refer to in which I was rude to Jonathan Powell; do you indeed refer to the post arguing the merits of Ian Pace's and Jonathan Powell's pianistic techniques?  If so, I would like for you to cite to me in what EXACT ways I was rude to Jonathan Powell, and subsequently substantiate your claims that I said things that were "inaccurate".  It's very tempting to use the word "flam" somewhere in this post >>  Are you flamming yourself by saying I have flamed Jonathan Powell?  Who are you trying to flam?  I find these allegations both flammical and comical.  By the way, "admitedly" is DEFINITELY not a word.


@ mephisto:  Why don't you just tell me a piece; you would know, you've apparently read a biography.  I don't see how that can be so difficult; well, I suppose it might be difficult if you were wrong, which to my knowledge (knowledge based on several sources) you are.

[bflatminor24]

I never saw any post of yours debasing Jonathan Powell's pianism.

"admittedly" is a word though.

Ornstein was an American composer. Rachmaninoff, Schoenberg, Stravinsky and Bartok were not.

Flammed is not a word.

iumonito, you are a strange person. I don't see any coherence or accuracy in your posts.

Can't people stay focused on one topic?

Sheesh.

[iumonito]

I never saw any post of yours debasing Jonathan Powell's pianism.

"admittedly" is a word though.

Ornstein was an American composer. Rachmaninoff, Schoenberg, Stravinsky and Bartok were not.

Flammed is not a word.

iumonito, you are a strange person. I don't see any coherence or accuracy in your posts.

Can't people stay focused on one topic?

Sheesh.

Flammed means deceived.  If you see no coherence or accuracy, well, let it be.

It is a forum.  Perhaps we need a School of Polemics.

Perhaps I will flam myself, and think of my poor incoherent, inaccurate and unspellable self as a lesser child of the Davidsbundler.  (Darn it, I mispeled that to).

 

[mephisto]

@ mephisto:  Why don't you just tell me a piece; you would know, you've apparently read a biography.  I don't see how that can be so difficult; well, I suppose it might be difficult if you were wrong, which to my knowledge (knowledge based on several sources) you are.

I don't know the names of any those pieces, but I am quite sure they were written, before he moved. I only know they were written in the style of Rachmaninoff.

If I am wrong I am very sorry, that I have doubtet your knowledge.

[dnephi]

Muczynski Toccata and preludes