Scarbo vs. Islamey

[elevateme]

ok... i need to know.
plus which other pieces in the common repertoire compare in difficulty? somone said prok toccata and someone else said campanella but i thought they were easier

[franzliszt2]

I suppose it's a case of...."Your an Islamey person, or a scarbo person" lol

[mephisto]

DELETE THIS TOPIC

[verywellmister]

I don't think either the Prokofiev or Liszt come anywhere close to Scarbo or Islamey.  So many students are capable of pulling off Toccata or Campanella, but how many do you meet that can play Islamey, let alone Scarbo.  Not saying they're easy, either.

ok... i need to know.
plus which other pieces in the common repertoire compare in difficulty?

Liszt Don Juan, Feux Follets, Chasse-Neige, B minor sonata.
Rachmaninoff Sonatas
Schumann Toccata, Carnaval, Fantasie

[mikey6]

DELETE THIS TOPIC

Agreed, plus me thinks how many people on this forum have actually mastered both of these pieces?

[donjuan]

DELETE THIS TOPIC

right now. I can see that too many people have voted already.

[lostinidlewonder]

Ravel actually wrote Scarbo partly with the intention of it being harder than Islamey and from my own experience he succeeded.

[avetma]

I don't think either the Prokofiev or Liszt come anywhere close to Scarbo or Islamey.  So many students are capable of pulling off Toccata or Campanella, but how many do you meet that can play Islamey, let alone Scarbo.  Not saying they're easy, either.
Liszt Don Juan, Feux Follets, Chasse-Neige, B minor sonata.

None of Liszt etudes can be compared to Scarbo (technically).

[shoenberg3]

None of Liszt etudes can be compared to Scarbo (technically).

I played all of both and I'd say Feux Follets and Mazeppa are probably harder than Scarbo in technical difficulty.

[avetma]

I played all of both and I'd say Feux Follets and Mazeppa are probably harder than Scarbo in technical difficulty.

For me, Scarbo is much more difficult than any of transcedental etudes.

[rach3rd]

For me, the 100 Transcendental Studies by Kaikhosru Sorabji are much harder than both Islamey and Scarbo.  They require stamina and musicianship of a very high order.  But one is rewarded greatly when they are *conquered*.

Cheers!

[trunks]

ok... i need to know.
plus which other pieces in the common repertoire compare in difficulty? somone said prok toccata and someone else said campanella but i thought they were easier

I don't think Ravel's own Ondine is any easier than either its brother Scarbo, or Balarirev's Islamey. Neither is his own Jeux d'eau.

Two of my friends who play Ondine so well (one of them also plays Scarbo) claimed to me that they might never be able to play Feux Follets.

On the other hand, I play Feux Follets by heart but I don't feel like doing Ondine or Scarbo (at least, yet). And I might never do Islamey because I simply don't love the piece at all.

One of my former students played Islamey by heart perfectly within weeks but took a full FIVE YEARS to mature on Feux Follets.

Difficulty is in the perception of the individual pianist. To each, his own.

Try Tausig's Ungarische Zigeunerweisen and you'll get a flavour of what true difficulty and bravura blended with musicality feel like.

[mikey6]

I don't think Ravel's own Ondine is any easier than either its brother Scarbo, or Balarirev's Islamey. Neither is his own Jeux d'eau.

Sorry, but Jeux d'eaux is certainly not as difficult as Ondine - having played both I do have some idea their difficulties.
Although I do agree that difficulty is very much dependant on the individual, there are things in ondine that are gonna take a lot longer to master than jeux d'eau.

[franzliszt2]

I have nearly played gaspard, but never actually got scarbo to a performing standard as I got distracted with other things. Ondine took me about a week to learn. I learnt that with no intention of doing scarbo, as I had to prepare a small programme for a new teacher, and had about 3 weeks. I did however look at scarbo over the period, and I found it hard to learn. It was hard to read, and needs a lot of careful looking at.

I found islamey very hard, as it is hard to get the clarity, and you can't use the pedal to conver anything up.  I was also younger when I first attempted islamey. Islamey however is quite similar all the way through. Once you have learnt up to the slow section confortably, it starts to become a lot easier as you get used to the piano writing. It's just the same ideas, in different keys, and changed slighty. The coda is nasty though when you start crossing hands. If you stick at Islamey it comes slowly, but a lot easier than getting your head around some of the chords in scarbo. Islamey just fell straight into my memory. Scarbo just vanished after every hour.

I would say scarbo is harder, but Islamey a lot more pianistic.

 

[elevateme]

i think islamey's harder technically. I'm doing scarbo and sure it's nasty but it's nowhere near impossible

[opus10no2]

Depends on speed, as always.

Neither are precise in their tempo markings.

[franzliszt2]

Off the top of my head islamey is 168 yeh? I aint seen score for a while. Thats fast when you consider it's 3 notes to a beat. Especially when lh starts leaping, and doing stuff.

[opus10no2]

Whereas Ravel has vague markings like 'vif'.

And it's hard to know whether those metronome markings are Balakirev's own or an editor's.

[etudes]

Whereas Ravel has vague markings like 'vif'.

And it's hard to know whether those metronome markings are Balakirev's own or an editor's.

Balakirev once said that Islamey should be played in 7 mins (but still it has the (quasi) slow part inside)

[thierry13]

Whereas Ravel has vague markings like 'vif'.

It is not vague. It is the exact same meaning as "vivace", except it's in french. Maybe a bit faster than vivace.

[opus10no2]

I know what it means, the point was that it's not exact.

[maxy]

Chopin op 10#2 beats them all   

[trunks]

Chopin op 10#2 beats them all   

Ah, then Chopin's own Op.25 No.6 and Op.25 No.11 both beat Op.10 No.2.

[pita bread]

Chopin op 10#2 beats them all   

Assuming 100% accuracy, NO.

But if we assume you're the one "performing" (well, I don't even know if performing would be the right word, "faking" seems like a better choice), then Scarbo is most definitely easier.

[franzliszt2]

Op25no6 and 11 harder than scarbo?!?!

[elevateme]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you can only know if you have learnt scarbo. chopin etudes are nothing compared to it.

just the thought of someone saying chopin studies are harder than scarbo is funny.

[opus10no2]

Scarbo is a difficult piece, but performing Chopin Etudes at competitive tempos take more time and are more demanding than playing a standard Scarbo performance.

This topic reveals the irrelevance of absolutes, no difficulty comparison can be exacted without prescribing tempo requirements to each.

[franzliszt2]

whats a competitive tempo?

Tempo is not always the issue with difficulty, unless you have bad fingers

[opus10no2]

Playing 25/11 at the marked tempo would take more time to achieve than playing Scarbo at standard performance tempo.

Tempo is always an issue with difficulty as long as one wishes to keep up in the fast paced pianistic world of today.

[jakev2.0]

You know what's harder?

Playing Mozart with Scarlett Johansson as a page-turner.  (interpret this however you want)

[opus10no2]

Not as hard as staying awake during the movie 'lost in translation'

[jakev2.0]

b0ner.

[cygnusdei]

Whatever happened to 'tempo giusto' ?

[verywellmister]

For something fiendishly difficult, try the 6th of Messiaen's Vingt Regards.

[maxy]

Ah, then Chopin's own Op.25 No.6 and Op.25 No.11 both beat Op.10 No.2.

wrong, op 25#11 is much easier than op 10#2

[maxy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you can only know if you have learnt scarbo. chopin etudes are nothing compared to it.

just the thought of someone saying chopin studies are harder than scarbo is funny.

yes funny, but not untrue

[trunks]

wrong, op 25#11 is much easier than op 10#2

 
True for you, and good for you.

[gearmenta]

I've played scarbo, and looked over islamey, I find scarbo to be much more demanding, as for the Liszt transcendental etudes I don't think they compare. They are difficult I'm not saying feux follets is easy, just not as difficult as scarbo... I love scarbo and feux follets it's much easier to learn something you love.