Would you pay to go to any of these concerts?

[soliloquy]

Scriabin Preludes Op. 74
Scriabin Sonata No. 5
Mosolov Sonata No. 2
Scriabin Sonata No. 6
Vine Sonata No. 1
Scriabin Sonata No. 7
Berg Sonata Op. 1
Scriabin Sonata No. 8
Roslavets Sonata No. 5
Scriabin Sonata No. 9
Ravel Sonatine
Scriabin Sonata No. 10


Encores:
Scriabin Etude Op. 65 No. 3
Scriabin Poeme "Vers la Flamme" Op. 72




Debussy Ballade
Debussy Images II
Boulez Incises
Ravel Gaspard de la Nuit
----------------------------------
Prin Ballade
Debussy Etudes Book II
Ravel Sonatine
Dutilleux Sonate


Encore:
Ravel La Valse




Rzewski North American Ballade No. 1
Rzewski North American Ballade No. 2
Rzewski North American Ballade No. 3
Rzewski North American Ballade No. 4
Rzewski North American Ballade No. 5
--------------------------------------------------------
Danielpour Preludes Book II
Corigliano Etude Fantasy
Ornstein Danse Sauvage
Ornstein Sonata No. 4


Encores:
Antheil Jazz Sonata
Antheil Sonata Savage

[invictious]

Definitely

actually, I won't pay, I'll watch it on tv.

[Kassaa]

I would DEFINATELY go to the last one, Rzewski ROCKS, first one is pretty cool too. I'm not really into Debussy, so I wouldn't go to the second one.

[jre58591]

id pay to go to any of them. i wouldnt hesitate one bit. its not every day that programs like that come through here.

[ahinton]

To answer the question first - I would certainly not expect to attend any of those programmes without being expected to pay!

I think that the first two would be quite tricky to bring off and, however thoughtfully structured and however fascinating the content, they are perhaps a little on the long side.

Now I'd like to ask a question (since no one else has yet done so here); is anyone actually about to give any or all of these programmes and, if so, where and when?

Best,

Alistair

[jre58591]

these concerts look very hard to pull off, mostly because of the length and combinations. i also havent even heard anything by yves prin or the 5th rzewski ballade, which i didnt even know was published yet. havent heard the danielpur preludes yet either. i can only imagine that someone such as jonathan powell would be able to pull off the first one. but, if i ever see a program like either of those, i wouldnt hesitate one bit. id pay whatever it takes.

[pianistimo]

is this a concert series?  i mean, the first one would go all night wouldn't it?  or does the guy or gal just play straight through like he/she is recording?  if it were me - i'd be done after the first few pieces.  besides - what listening audience can truly enjoy all that?  it would be like overeating.

i like to see the personality of the artist expressed in a few choice pieces (no more than 5-6) and an encore.  the more variation, the better.  although, in a salon setting with only appreciators of one or two composers - i could see more involvement this way.

[ramseytheii]

I will paraphrase Alfred Brendel: given the choice of attending any of these concerts or death, I would choose death.

Walter Ramsey

[jre58591]

thats the problem with our musical society. people arent as open to 20th century music as they should be. music needs to advance, not stay in one place. concerts such as these, even though they are really long, are good exposure.

[pita bread]

I'd happily pay to hear any of those concerts, I'd happily ditch my lectures/discussions to attend.

[pita bread]

thats the problem with our musical society. people arent as open to 20th century music as they should be. music needs to advance, not stay in one place. concerts such as these, even though they are really long, are good exposure.

This is coming from the biggest proponent of romanticism that I know.

[pita bread]

However, if you wanted to get an average listener to attend any of these concerts, you would have to add some more "standard" repertoire to the mix.

[jre58591]

This is coming from the biggest proponent of romanticism that I know.

im a big proponent of modernism also. and btw, im a proponent of obscure romanticism, not just romanticism in general.

However, if you wanted to get an average listener to attend any of these concerts, you would have to add some more "standard" repertoire to the mix.

concurred.

[chromatickler]

Now I'd like to ask a question (since no one else has yet done so here); is anyone actually about to give any or all of these programmes and, if so, where and when?

ahahahahaha da zkep put on da zpot

[opus10no2]

Every word John utters is hypothetical.

[ahinton]

I will paraphrase Alfred Brendel: given the choice of attending any of these concerts or death, I would choose death.

Walter Ramsey

Then at least you wouldn't have to worry about such ideas ever again - nor would the rest of us have to read remarks of that nature from you; that said, you were not, of course, intending to be taken literally here, so we must just note your opinion and pass on.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

these concerts look very hard to pull off, mostly because of the length and combinations.

Agreed.

i can only imagine that someone such as jonathan powell would be able to pull off the first one.

I can imagine that he could, but I'm far less certain that he would, even though much of it is very much his kind of territory (he is, incidentally, one of the world's leading authorities on Skryabin). One cannot fault the ambition of such a programme, but I wonder if the sheer extent of it might be abit self-defeating. The inclusion of the Ravel (not one of his very best piano works but an attractive one in the right hands nonetheless) makes a good foil for some of the works surrounding it - and the Berg offers a kind of over-heated (though beautifully controlled) late-Romanticism from a different standpoint from the Skryabin works, but I rather think that the programme as a whole wold benefit from abit of paring down, to make its overall impact stronger.

As to "pianistimo"'s question about whether or not it is a proposed recital series (and the phrasing of the question suggests that it might indeed be so), I note en passant that the Ravel Sonatine would therefore appear twice.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

thats the problem with our musical society. people arent as open to 20th century music as they should be. music needs to advance, not stay in one place. concerts such as these, even though they are really long, are good exposure.

First off, it's worth noting that quite a few of the items in these programmes are very early 20th century and, whilst there's hardly a single item in any of them that is less than worthy of exposure, I wonder if that exposure - and more importanly the overall impact - might be respectively greater and stronger if the programmes were broken into somewhat smaller chunks. The idea of all of Skryabin's latter sonatas running through the first like a kind of cantus fermus is obviously attractive and intriguing, but their length alone would almost suffice for a single recital.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Every word John utters is hypothetical.

John who?

Best,

Alistair

[jre58591]

john = soliloquy.

[ahinton]

john = soliloquy.

Yes - well, I knew that, of course, but I wondered nevertheless what your answer might be (if you see what I mean - and I'm quite sure that you do!).

Anyway, to return to the thread topic itself, as some if not all of those who have responded in this thread (not least myself) are obviously interested to know if these recital programmes are to be given and, if so, when, where and by whom, it is maybe an opportune moment directly to invite "soliloquy" to tell us, since it is he who initiated this interesting thread.

Best,

Alistair

[steinwaymodeld]

I will paraphrase Alfred Brendel: given the choice of attending any of these concerts or death, I would choose death.

Walter Ramsey

i will turn that quote right back onto Brendull's own recitals/concerts.

[Mozartian]

The obvious answer is that it would depend on who was playing the concerts.

[opus10no2]

very hard to pull off, mostly because of the length

Well, the length and hardness can be intimidating, but I can assure you, many are willing to pull off something like that.

[ahinton]

The obvious answer is that it would depend on who was playing the concerts.

...and we still do not know if there is to be such a person or, if so, the identity of that person...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Well, the length and hardness can be intimidating, but I can assure you, many are willing to pull off something like that.

"Many"? Really? I don't seek to argue with you for the sake of so doing, believe me, but can you name a handful of such a "many"? I would be surprised - but, who knows, maybe I should be less surprised...

Best,

Alistair

[opus10no2]

I said willing, not ready and able 

I think the main problem with these programs isn't the amount of people that could play them, but the amount of people who would enjoy and attend them.

[ramseytheii]

thats the problem with our musical society. people arent as open to 20th century music as they should be. music needs to advance, not stay in one place. concerts such as these, even though they are really long, are good exposure.

If you think I wouldn't go because the music is from the 20th century, you're wrong!  The reason I wouldn't go is because each of those concerts looks like an 8 hour marathon, and frankly what's the point?  Anyways, if the point was for good exposure to lesser known music, the concerts also fail, because by the time you have sat through 3 Scriabin sonatas, chances are you aren't going to retain much of anything else that follows - if you even retain anything from the Scriabin sonatas.  Why not presenting this kind of music with intelligence, instead of like a big battering ram on people's ears?

Walter Ramsey

[ahinton]

I said willing, not ready and able 

I know that you did; I still rather doubt that there would be "many" pianists who'd even want to try their hand (or rather two hands) at this in front of an audience.

I think the main problem with these programs isn't the amount of people that could play them, but the amount of people who would enjoy and attend them.

Understandably so, I think - but we still wait to be advised as to whether these programmes are to be given in public and, if so, when and where; until such time as the dates and venue/s are published (if indeed there are to be any such dates), the rest would seemingly have to remain solely in the area of speculation.

We're all waiting...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

If you think I wouldn't go because the music is from the 20th century, you're wrong!  The reason I wouldn't go is because each of those concerts looks like an 8 hour marathon, and frankly what's the point?  Anyways, if the point was for good exposure to lesser known music, the concerts also fail, because by the time you have sat through 3 Scriabin sonatas, chances are you aren't going to retain much of anything else that follows - if you even retain anything from the Scriabin sonatas.  Why not presenting this kind of music with intelligence, instead of like a big battering ram on people's ears?

Walter Ramsey

I cannot - and do not [presume to - speak for anyone else here, but I did not "think" at all what your reasons, if any, might be for not attending such programmes were they actually to be given before an audience. Whilst the programmes seem to me to be somewhat overlong (as I have already stated), they are nothing like the "8 hour marathons" of which you write; indeed, you could probably play the first programme twice over in the amount of time it would take to play Opus Clavicembalisticum once.

You seem not to be at all sympathetic towards the sonatas of Skryabin; that is, of course, your prerogative, but they are hardly "lesser known music" in any case, being as they all are far more familiar than anything else on the projected programme apart from the Berg and the Ravel. I do tend, however, to agree that the first of these apparently projected programmes is arguably suggestive of a degree of overload risk, as I have already implied.

Best,

Alistair

[ramseytheii]

The more I think about this thread the more I wonder why people are taking it seriously.  It's like asking, would you attend this concert?

Beethoven Symphony 4
Mozart Symphony 40
Schumann Symphonies 1 and 2
C.P.E. Bach Symphony in B-flat major
Beethoven Symphony 5
Intermission
Haydn Symphonies 90-104
Brahms Symphony 3
Mendelssohn Italian Symphony
Beethoven Symphony 9
Mahler Symphony 8
Mahler Symphony 10 (Cooke reconstruction)
Mahler Symphony 10 (Carpenter reconstruction)

Encore (because you know they'd want one): Messiaen Turangalila Symphony

Hmm, looks like my iTunes library.

I didn't mean to give the impression I don't liek Scriabin, I just don't see why every sonata has to be programmed at once.  This would be am uch more interesting program:

Scriabin Sonata 2
Scarlatti Sonatas K100 through K236
Beethoven op.106
Beethoven Symphony 9 arr. Liszt
Liszt Sonata
Intermission
Scarlatti Sonatas K450 through K612
Scriabin Sonata 9
Ginastera Sonata 2
Wagner Sonata in B-flat major
Berlioz Symphony Fantastique arr. liszt
Boulez Sonata 3
Kuhnau David & Goliath Sonata

Encores: Vingt regards sur l'enfant Jesus
Maple Leaf Rag

Walter Ramsey

[ahinton]

The more I think about this thread the more I wonder why people are taking it seriously.  It's like asking, would you attend this concert?

Beethoven Symphony 4
Mozart Symphony 40
Schumann Symphonies 1 and 2
C.P.E. Bach Symphony in B-flat major
Beethoven Symphony 5
Intermission
Haydn Symphonies 90-104
Brahms Symphony 3
Mendelssohn Italian Symphony
Beethoven Symphony 9
Mahler Symphony 8
Mahler Symphony 10 (Cooke reconstruction)
Mahler Symphony 10 (Carpenter reconstruction)

Encore (because you know they'd want one): Messiaen Turangalila Symphony

Hmm, looks like my iTunes library.

I didn't mean to give the impression I don't liek Scriabin, I just don't see why every sonata has to be programmed at once.  This would be am uch more interesting program:

Scriabin Sonata 2
Scarlatti Sonatas K100 through K236
Beethoven op.106
Beethoven Symphony 9 arr. Liszt
Liszt Sonata
Intermission
Scarlatti Sonatas K450 through K612
Scriabin Sonata 9
Ginastera Sonata 2
Wagner Sonata in B-flat major
Berlioz Symphony Fantastique arr. liszt
Boulez Sonata 3
Kuhnau David & Goliath Sonata

Encores: Vingt regards sur l'enfant Jesus
Maple Leaf Rag

Walter Ramsey

Well, it's patently obvious how seriously you're taking it, Mr Ramsey. All that I have done, on the other hand, is to make a few observations which I trust are not unduly lacking in intelligence, perception and pertinence and endeavour to invite the thread initiator to let us know if these projected programmes are likely - or intended - to be performed in front of an audience at a public recital and, if so, when and where - not an unreasonable response, surely?

That said, there are surely far too many Skryabin sonatas in your last programme suggestion - and have you given even so much as a moment's serious consideration as to what Boulez might think of his Third Sonata being performed in such a programme?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

It's gone remarkably quiet around here, has it not?...

Best,

Alistair

[opus10no2]

Cage is laughing in his grave...is he not? 

[hodi]

it depends on the pianist ofcourse
if it was richter playing i would pay for sure.

[lichristine]

Absolutely I would go.

[apion]

I'd pay to see Gaspard in a heartbeat

[chromatickler]

i would pay to go if the performer guarantees a length of no more than 50 minutes for each program

[soliloquy]

Scarlatti Sonatas K450 through K612

Interesting.  And all along, I considered myself a Scarlatti expert!  This WOULD be difficult to perform, the last 57 in particular!  You certainly convey yourself as someone who truly knows what they're talking about


And as comme stated, they are indeed hypothetical future concerts.  Sorry, completely forgot about this thread XD  I don't come onto this board often.

have you given even so much as a moment's serious consideration as to what Boulez might think of his Third Sonata being performed in such a programme?

Best,

Alistair

Alistair, he's not going to get that joke.  Don't even waste your time.

i would pay to go if the performer guarantees a length of no more than 50 minutes for each program

Perhaps if it were a private concert.  I would first aim to please Ramsey

[ramseytheii]

Interesting.  And all along, I considered myself a Scarlatti expert!  This WOULD be difficult to perform, the last 57 in particular!  You certainly convey yourself as someone who truly knows what they're talking about

nd as comme stated, they are indeed hypothetical future concerts.  Sorry, completely forgot about this thread XD  I don't come onto this board often.


Alistair, he's not going to get that joke.  Don't even waste your time.


Perhaps if it were a private concert.  I would first aim to please Ramsey

You're very naughty aren't you!  Always trying to ruffle feathers.  If you want to please me, arrange this program:


Chopin and Scriabin Preludes op.28 and op.11 alternating each other
Bach WTC I and II alternating each other
Intermission
Beethoven sonata op.90
Godowsky Sonata in e
Grieg Sonata in e
Medtner Night-Wind Sonata
Liszt sonata transcribed to e minor
Boulez 3rd sonata performed 8 times in different permutations

Encore: Chopin Sonata no.1

Walter Ramsey

[ahinton]

You're very naughty aren't you!  Always trying to ruffle feathers.  If you want to please me, arrange this program:


Chopin and Scriabin Preludes op.28 and op.11 alternating each other
Bach WTC I and II alternating each other
Intermission
Beethoven sonata op.90
Godowsky Sonata in e
Grieg Sonata in e
Medtner Night-Wind Sonata
Liszt sonata transcribed to e minor
Boulez 3rd sonata performed 8 times in different permutations

Encore: Chopin Sonata no.1

Walter Ramsey

I note that, in order to "please" you, you ask that "soliloquy" "arrange" this programme - which, whatever it may mean, is hardly the same as playing it.

By "transcribed" I presume you to mean transposed and, if so, a Bösendorfer 290 or other 8-octave piano would be required and the sonata would need to be transposed down a perfect fifth; should we assume that you will supply the piano for this?

You do even not specify into which key you'd like to have the Boulez transposed, let alone give due consideration to whether or not Boulez would sanction such a treatment of his Troisième Sonate as an acceptable take on its aleatoricity; furthermore, do you suppose that there might be a risk of Medtner rising from his grave in protest at being programmed alongside Boulez? (or, for that matter, that Boulez might sue the performer for including Medtner in a programme with his own work?)...

I don't quite get the point of the Chopin C minor sonata as an encore, but then that's pretty much par for the course here, as I don't get the rest of it either - after all, it's not as though it's even funny...

Best,

Alistair

[opus10no2]

Alistair, you make me smile inside, though curiously not outside .

[ahinton]

Alistair, you make me smile inside, though curiously not outside .

Perhaps you might like to expand on this, in some explanatory kind of way - not only for my benefit but also for that of other readers?

Anyway, I wouldn't pay to go to any of those concerts at least until they were scheduled and I could purchase tikcets (although, of course - who knows -  I might just be invited as one of the critics and not then be called upon to pay - but then that's quite another matter).

I know that it's not my thread (in the sense that I did not initiate it) so I do not wish to appear unwarrantably presumptuous in what I'm about to say here, but I do tend to think that it has run on for long enough to outlive its possible usefulness until and unless the actual promise of at least one of these programmes actually getting to the public recital stage emerges; if and when this happens, however, there will surely be more to add on the subject...

Best,

Alistair

[opus10no2]

OK, I'll admit, I smiled on the outside too this time.

You're just too funny  .