Scriabin Preludes

[dignam]

I'm interested in playing some Scriabin preludes but don't know where to begin.  Any advice on difficulty?  I've browsed through some scores and I have several recordings. But we all know how decptive a thing can look or sound until you really dig in and try to master it. <g>

I've been practising a Scriabin Romance arranged for Horn and Piano to play with a neighbor and it has piqued my interest.  At random I downloaded op. 13 no. 3.  So lovely though a bit tricky with the metronomic variation within each bar.

I am recently returned to playing the piano after about 15 years off.  I studied for many years before that and am gradually getting my hands back, playing Chopin Waltzes and the Berceuse, an English Suite, Mozart sonatas and some Rachmaninoff.

Any advice on a way in to the Scriabin preludes?

many thanks,

dignam

[desordre]

 Dear Dignam:
 Welcome! The preludes of Scriabin span from easy to very hard. I would suggest the 24 preludes opus 11, of course not the complete set. Listen and choose what you like the most (a pair or a mini-cycle). Since you already play the piano, your fingers and your intuition will lead the path.
Two observations: disregard the MM markings and be careful when Mr. Scriabin asks for "agitato", "assai" (in fast movements), or "presto" because, as a russian composer, he really means it. 
 Enjoy!

[dnephi]

The whole set could be reccomended because they are all short and none are too hairy.

[desordre]

 Dear Dnephi:
 I agree with you. I mean that it's not the case to play all 24.
 Best!

[soliloquy]

If you're going to play Scriabin, play the Op. 74.  They're the only ones worth the effort.  If you're looking to play something like Op. 42 or Op. 11 just play some Chopin.

[infectedmushroom]

If you're going to play Scriabin, play the Op. 74.  They're the only ones worth the effort.  If you're looking to play something like Op. 42 or Op. 11 just play some Chopin.

Isn't that a matter of taste?


I really like most of the Op. 11 Preludes

[invictious]

yes, op11 number 14 is my favorite after seeing Koji play it once.
It's so intense, you have to be angry to play it properly.

Again, it's Scriabin. It's awesome music.

[dignam]

Desordre,

Many thanks.  I will listen again to Op 11 and then dive in.

Here's another question.  I know that I can download the scores here, but can anyone recommend the best editions to purchase?  Is there a definitive editiion out there? I lokve that I can download music for study or test driving, but it's nice to have a nicely engraved copy.

My Paderewski editions of Chopin for example, some of them I've had for more than 30 years! Probably won't be the case with the inkjet pages I've printed off the Web.

Thanks again for all of your responses. 

dignam

[steve jones]

Isn't that a matter of taste?


I really like most of the Op. 11 Preludes

Me too, I love Op11!

Early Scriabin is among my favorite sounds right now.

Just make sure you're comfortable with your octaves, lol.

SJ

[soliloquy]

Isn't that a matter of taste?


I really like most of the Op. 11 Preludes

While I don't particularly like the early Scriabin Etudes/Preludes/Mazurkas, I'm not bashing them as music.  What I meant was that if he's looking for music that is truly SCRIABIN, he should look into the Op. 74.  The early stuff is so incredibly heavily based on the music of Chopin that I think he would benefit more from learning some of Chopin's Preludes Op. 28, as they look better on your repertoire list and are generally more well-received in competitions and auditions etc.

[opus10no2]

They're different to Chopin.

Only n00bs think they sound that much alike.

[soliloquy]

They're different to Chopin.

Only n00bs think they sound that much alike.

lol.  Apparently you have it backwards :O

[phil13]

While I don't particularly like the early Scriabin Etudes/Preludes/Mazurkas, I'm not bashing them as music.  What I meant was that if he's looking for music that is truly SCRIABIN, he should look into the Op. 74.  The early stuff is so incredibly heavily based on the music of Chopin that I think he would benefit more from learning some of Chopin's Preludes Op. 28, as they look better on your repertoire list and are generally more well-received in competitions and auditions etc.

There is nothing Chopinesque about the middle-phase preludes, etudes and mazurkas, Soliloquy. While not yet based on quartal harmony and the mystic chord, almost everything after the Op.25 Mazurkas, Op.27 Preludes, and Op.28 Fantasie is very much Scriabin.

That said, I second Op.11. And, might I add, the Op.27 preludes in G minor and B major are beautiful, as is Op.51 No.2 in A minor.

Phil

[phil13]

Desordre,

Many thanks.  I will listen again to Op 11 and then dive in.

Here's another question.  I know that I can download the scores here, but can anyone recommend the best editions to purchase?  Is there a definitive editiion out there? I lokve that I can download music for study or test driving, but it's nice to have a nicely engraved copy.

My Paderewski editions of Chopin for example, some of them I've had for more than 30 years! Probably won't be the case with the inkjet pages I've printed off the Web.

Thanks again for all of your responses. 

dignam

I have the Dover edition of the complete preludes and etudes. I highly recommend it.

Phil

[pianowelsh]

All op 11 fantastic pieces..some very easy  circ gd 4 others are fiercesome particularly with regard to keeping a convincing sense of rhythm. Choose a group of 6 you like listening to and then see which ones stick and be prepared to drop a couple if you dont get on with them.

[steve jones]

I dont think that Scriabin's early work is any more influenced by Chopin as his contemparies... Rachmaninov especially!

Scriabin had a unique style from the start imo. His heavy use of the old major tritone progression really comes to mind.

SJ

[dnephi]

Very nice pieces, as a set.

[pianowelsh]

There is an undoubtable hommage to Chopin in the earliest pieces pre op11 and the very fact op11 exists is a tribute to Chopins influence. However I couldnt agree more that Scriabin is no copier of Chopin. From the beginning there was an innovative spirit and a pushing of tonal boundaries..but very gentle at first.  His obsession with the miniature forms and singing bel cantoesque line is directly from Chopin and of course Mozart! His use of disjunct bases is typically trademark but not so much in the earliest pieces which are more Chopinesque in their bass line construction. The confusion of the harmony by adding disjunct pedal points is increasingly in evidence as you head into his middle period works and even in the op11 we can see his love of this effect.  I have to say I often even in the op11 hear the influence of Wagner...with the increasingly complexed layering of motives and overlapping textures and richness of chordal progressions. True there are reflections of Rachmaninov too.  But then as they were in the same class at school its hardly surprising and they had the same professor from harmony!  There is a luxuriant quality that scriabin manages to capture a decadence - that is not Rachmaninovian. Its scriabins own. Partly to do with the textures and pedal effects and the dynamic markings which are often the opposite of what you would expect from Rachmaninov..which makes his music seem to float on some sort of narcotic cloud. There is also a springiness in the rhythmic detailing of his music as distinct from Rachmaninovs more brittle approach.  Small things but it would make a very interesting comparative study.......anyone actually done one hear?

[steve jones]

Im not sure, but I would LOVE to read that!

Both Rachmaninov's and Scriabin's compositional styles fascinate me. But Scriabin's especially. Even his earlier works difficult as hell to analyse, so Id be most interested to read such a piece.

SJ

[dignam]

An update of my original post - I selected a few of the easier preludes and have been enjoying the process.  I picked Opus 11 No. 10 and 12 to start with and Op 13 No 3.

I love the image of the narcotic cloud and the sense of luxuriant decadence put forth by pianowelsh.  As for comparisons I find Rachmaninoff to be more directly sexual if that makes any sense to anyone. 

Subjective impressions aside, I find it tricky bringing out the wandering melodies and undulating rhythms. Tricky but rewarding.

Any other recommendations for editions or should I order the Dover?

Thanks all for your continued comments.

dignam

[rach n bach]

I am (obviously) a great Rachmaninof fan, but I still love Scriabin because of his almost mystical mood.

It can be very hard to pick out melodies and rythums in his music... I mean, take a look at even something as "simple" as his C sharp minor etude, I see between 4 and 6 voices in some parts!  But this is why I love his music, I can't remember who said it, but the more you bring out the middle voice in Scriabin, the more interesting it sounds.

Cheers!
   RnB