ancient egypt

[rebby]

it seems that Pianistimo and Thal are arguing again on boobies, ( the post about birds) about ancient egypt. so i have made this post topic for them to argue about it on, instead of ruining someone elses post. so here

[thalbergmad]

That was her thread to start with.

Gawd knows how it got onto Ancient Egypt.

Anyway, it is poinltess entering into a debate with someone that uses the Bible to date the flood of Noah to 2344BC.

Thal

[rebby]

suppose so, any way who cares

[thalbergmad]

Amenhotep IV possibly.

Thal

[pianistimo]

way too late.  it's like people expect the israelites to wander out at the time they were already established in israel.  ? canaan.  whatever. 

[thalbergmad]

way too late.  

I was referring to "who cares" not your non - existant 2nd millenium BC flood.

Thal

[pianistimo]

oh.  i see.  who cares.  well, if you don't care -then don't post like you do.  mr. smarty pants.

[thalbergmad]

Bought an interesting book today called "Act of God" by Graham Phillips.

It is about the discovery in Egypt of Tomb 55 in 1907.

It appears that the Tomb was designed to keep something in instead of something out. Whoever it was that was there, must have committed a crime so horrible, that all written evidence was wiped out.

Thal

[prometheus]

They trapped the Abrahamic god in tomb 55?

[pianistimo]

nah. his bones were taken by moses when they left.  he was dumped over near the nile and they had to sort of fish around for him.  joseph left when everyone else left.  a little worse for the wear.  but, completely mummified.  his possible villa has been discovered and it is very like dwellings found in palestine.

[thalbergmad]

They trapped the Abrahamic god in tomb 55?

If they did, it appears to have escaped

The inhabitant of Tomb 55 appears to be Smenkhkare who was Tutankhamun's brother and predecessor.

Sounds like i have another Moses/Exodus contender on my hands. Could be nonsense, but i will read it first.

Thal

[pianistimo]

some people think smenkhkare was actually joseph. 

here is some flood info:

https://mclcungmuseum.utk.edu/specex/ur/ur-flood.htm

i happen to think it happened in the 10th dynasty of egypt - when not much is found *washed away?  in location.  but, other dynasties that pre-existed it - remains would likely be intact, right?  because they were built upon.

so far i have for the 18th dynasty

1 ahmose I
2 amenhotep I
3 tuthmose I
4 tuthmose II - possible king who died in exodus
5 hatshepsut (possible mother of mosis of exodus and ruler of egypt after the death of the other king tuthmoses II - who was a step-son or son of another wife?)
6 tuthmosis III inherited disaster from plagues of egypt
7 amenhotep II (coruled for a couple of years with tuthmosis III - and then after)
8 amenhotep III
9 amenhotep IV (also called akenhaten - and had some physical anomolies).

[prometheus]

some people think smenkhkare was actually joseph. 

Don't spoil the plot for him.

[thalbergmad]

some people think smenkhkare was actually joseph. 

here is some flood info:

https://mclcungmuseum.utk.edu/specex/ur/ur-flood.htm

i happen to think it happened in the 10th dynasty of egypt - when not much is found *washed away?  in location.  but, other dynasties that pre-existed it - remains would likely be intact, right?  because they were built upon.

so far i have for the 18th dynasty

1 ahmose I
2 amenhotep I
3 tuthmose I
4 tuthmose II - possible king who died in exodus
5 hatshepsut (possible mother of mosis of exodus and ruler of egypt after the death of the other king tuthmoses II - who was a step-son or son of another wife?)
6 tuthmosis III inherited disaster from plagues of egypt
7 amenhotep II (coruled for a couple of years with tuthmosis III - and then after)
8 amenhotep III
9 amenhotep IV (also called akenhaten - and had some physical anomolies).

If you are saying Tuthmose II was the king who died in Exodus, how can Smenkhkare be joseph?. He would be number 10 on your list and therefore after Moses.

I know you are not going to let go of this incredible flood theory of yours, but if you are proposing 2350BC or thereabouts, you are not going to be looking in the first intermediate period/10th Dynasty. Yes, this was a period of turmoil but not caused by a flood. It was partially caused by a long and inaffective reign of Pepi II and famine. If you are certain about 2350BC, you need to look further back to 6th Dynasty when Egypt was in rather good health. Regretfully, they appear to have neglected to mention a flood.

I take it that the "washed away/built upon later" is a joke.

Interestingly, the author Graham Hancock found about 150 stories of floods from ancient writings. This would indicate that indeed a great flood did happen sometime in extreme antiquity, but 2350BC would appear to be slightly loony.

Perhaps, after the end of the last Ice Age or the re-filling of the Mediterranean would be a little more acceptable.

Thal

[pianistimo]

the refilling of the mediterranean wasn't an ice age occurance.  and, the city of ur has sediment 8-10 ft thick where flood happened in history.  you can't disprove geology because it was a worldwide flood and happened over the entire earth. 

the grand canyon wasn't even formed until 2350 - accordingly because the huge HUGE amounts of water formed the canyon.  there is no other explaination.  people who say the canyon is eons of time old are just plain wrong.  i have seen it with my two eyes and the FIRST thing that came to mind was - this had to be created by a flood of great magnitude.  carving the canyon with that much water would be impossible by the tiny river below. 

i don't care how many people laugh me to scorn.  there are many people turning their heads right now at the impending weather disasters that are becoming more frequent and serious in the usa and abroad.  the fact that we haven't had some serious weather and geological conditions suddenly - doesn't mean that in a relatively short amount of time - many things can't change.  what i contend with is that it MUSt take eons.

also, who can explain the unexplainable at the tops of some of these mountains. clear lakes with fish?  how could fish end up so high up?  especially in some places in china (and, i might add, alaska).  people say - oh birds dropped them.  miles and miles inland?  i don't think so.  they would drop.  or stop to eat them.  what bird in it's right mind would catch a fish and fly for miles?

[thalbergmad]

Well my little sweetie, I agree that there must be people turning their heads right now after reading your last post.

If Ur has sediment 10 ft thick, there must have been a flood in history, but not RECORDED history.

I am not a geologist, but i think you will find that the reason there are fish in lakes up mountains is because the lakes were once at sea level and over a long period of time, the mountains rose. The same reason why fossils are found 1,000's of feet up mountains.

If you truly believe that the Grand Canyon wasn't formed until 2350BC, then i must respectively seperate myself from any further posts on this thread. It is interesting that you say "you can't disprove geology".

I do not laugh at you, I actually cry for you and i am being serious when i say that.

You lose any credence you have left by such astounding claims.

Thal

[pianistimo]

i actually think you are right on several points.  i DO think the mountains did raise.  if the 'fountains of the deep' were let loose - there had to be some seismic activity.  well, how should i really know what went on a few millenia ago.  all i know is that God is mighty mighty and if he wants to completely revamp the earth -he can do it one hundred and fifty days. 

gen 7:24 'and the water prevailed upon the earth one hundred and fifty days...and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided.  also, the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained....'

now, as i see it - there are literalists like me who say - this immense amount of damage could happen in a very short period of time.  also, it would account for those fossils you mention - high up on the mountains (they are sea creatures, btw, clams and shells and such).  now, if a mountain simply raised itself over eons - what is sea life doing on it?  but, if a flood of worldwide magnitude happened - mountains can be involved.   if we had mountains only in a certain locations - hmmm.  but, for many many mountains to have the same phenomenon?!  speaks God to me. 

why does it HAVE to take eons of time.  one scholar mentions that many layers of rock can be bent together - disproving the idea that each layer takes such and such amount of time.  sediment can be placed quickly as noticed by half a mountain being displaced when st. helena blew.

[thalbergmad]

now, if a mountain simply raised itself over eons - what is sea life doing on it? 

Because the sea life died, was gradually covered in layers upon layers of silt, and was then raised over a hell of a long time due to plate movement etc. As i said, i know very little about geology, but that is the gist of it as far as i understand. Mount Everest is now slightly higher than it was 20 years ago. Modern technology allows us to measure such things with great accuracy. The process is extremely slow.

However, not everything is so slow. The eruption at Santorini that wiped out an entire civilisation and the eruption at Pompei seems to have happened so quickly, that people did not have any time to escape. Floods, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, typhoons etc can occur very quickly and even today, cannot be accuractly predicted.

The Great Tunguska Explosion of 1908 would have wiped out London or New York, but fortunately happened in Siberia. Scientists have been debating about this for years, but it shows that devastating events can happen extremely quickly without notice.

You seem to be a "Catastrophinist" by little sweetie pants and so am I.

The "Doomesday" asteroid is out there somewhere.

Will God smite it with his mighty hand??

Luv

Thalxxxxxxxxxx

[landru]

the refilling of the mediterranean wasn't an ice age occurance.  and, the city of ur has sediment 8-10 ft thick where flood happened in history.  you can't disprove geology because it was a worldwide flood and happened over the entire earth. 

the grand canyon wasn't even formed until 2350 - accordingly because the huge HUGE amounts of water formed the canyon.  there is no other explaination.  people who say the canyon is eons of time old are just plain wrong.  i have seen it with my two eyes and the FIRST thing that came to mind was - this had to be created by a flood of great magnitude.  carving the canyon with that much water would be impossible by the tiny river below. 

i don't care how many people laugh me to scorn.  there are many people turning their heads right now at the impending weather disasters that are becoming more frequent and serious in the usa and abroad.  the fact that we haven't had some serious weather and geological conditions suddenly - doesn't mean that in a relatively short amount of time - many things can't change.  what i contend with is that it MUSt take eons.

also, who can explain the unexplainable at the tops of some of these mountains. clear lakes with fish?  how could fish end up so high up?  especially in some places in china (and, i might add, alaska).  people say - oh birds dropped them.  miles and miles inland?  i don't think so.  they would drop.  or stop to eat them.  what bird in it's right mind would catch a fish and fly for miles?

Okay, I'll supply the missing smiley on this one:  because I fail to see how to take this other than a willful misrepresentation intelligently designed to be humorous! In any case, the scientific method evolved to replace the fallacies that "my two eyes" bring to any proper understanding of the world. Galileo's contemporaries knew with their two eyes that a small lead ball and a huge lead ball don't fall at the same rate - it's common sense, duh! That is until he dropped them off the leaning tower of Pisa....Common sense gets us across the street safely - it doesn't do that well in forming cosmologies that fit the facts.

[lichristine]

On Egypt, I find it hard to imagine it as a lush jungle, as apparently it was in pharonic times.

[thalbergmad]

On Egypt, I find it hard to imagine it as a lush jungle, as apparently it was in pharonic times.

Yeh, considering the earth is only 6000 years old, a lot must have changed very quickly.

Thal

[pianistimo]

oasis and lush jungle are two different things.  yes. they had the nile - and occasionally it would flood and give immense watering to the region.  and, they also had famines.  like the one mentioned in the bible, no less. as i see it - they survived the worst of this famine with wheat that was grown during the good years.

btw, i realize my scientific sniggering is really a lot of 'i saw it with my two eyes.'  i have admitted several times that i am neither a scientist or have a scientific mind, per se- but that i find that evidence that other people have found and drawn conclusions upon to be interesting reads.  for instance, the tour guide who for many years explained evolution as he guided people along the grand canyon in his raft/boat...and then, suddenly he changes and determines that creationism and the flood is the only logical means of explaination for some of the geological stuff that he started noticing was inconsistent with what textbooks generally said.  (that each layer takes so many years to build).  in one catastrophe - you can have many layers laid down at once.  he shows people this place where many layers of rock are all bent together. 

if someone were to show me evidence for anything other than extinct animals - i would believe there might be something to evolution.  but, it seems that there aren't really all that many places one can go (that are easy to get to) to prove evolution true - vs. the abundant evidence all around us for creation.  that is my viewpoint (as a non-scientific person and just looking at what i see around me).  for one, look up at the stars.  how can the vast universe be anything but FOR us.  we have the exact things we need for our calendar, for the right temperature to live on the planet, for our atmosphere (although depleting ozone layer), for the sun and moon to work harmoniously even down to the 'nth' degree of covering each other at exact distances to cause eclipses.  i mean who could measure this so accurately but God?  the EXACT distance for the moon to cover the sun in a solar eclipse.  and for the shadow of the earth to cover the moon in a lunar eclipse.  how can this precision be - if everything was a 'big bang?'

also, where is other life in the universe?  it should have happened by now if evolution and the process was available everywhere else in the universe.

[thalbergmad]

we have the exact things we need for our calendar

Fascinating, so if the Earth took 400 days to go around the sun, mankind would have been incapable of developing a calendar.

God, God, God, boring, boring, heard it all before.

snigger

Thal

[pianistimo]

yeah.  it would rule out the numbers God likes to deal with.  1, 2, 3, 7, 10, 12, 40, 90, 100, 120, 180, 360, 645, 1000, 1290, 2350, 7000. 

probably left out a few.

well, anyways, ten is very important.  ten fingers.  ten toes.  excepting the circus freaks.  ten commandments.  how many major planets?  ten?  i forget.  i have to go through them again.  mercury, venus, earth, mars, jupiter, saturn, neptune, uranus, pluto, and that last one that wsa discovered.- there you go. 10.

[soliloquy]

I must regrettably inform you that Pluto is no longer a planet

[thalbergmad]

well, anyways, ten is very important.  ten fingers.  ten toes.  excepting the circus freaks.  ten commandments.  how many major planets?  ten?  i forget.  i have to go through them again.  mercury, venus, earth, mars, jupiter, saturn, neptune, uranus, pluto, and that last one that wsa discovered.- there you go. 10.

You left out one important one which you might be able to identify with.

10 BRAIN CELLS.

Thal

[ahinton]

I must regrettably inform you that Pluto is no longer a planet

OK, we know that this is now officially true, but did you first seek Colin Matthews's permission to relay this here?...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

did someone blow it up?  the planet. 

and, thal - hahaha very funny.  no - ten horns.  thats on your side.

[prometheus]

What planet? Puto is a little piece of ice like hundreds others.

[lichristine]

It was my favorite planet. I can pretend it's a planet if I want to! What if it wanted to be a planet, hm?

[debussy symbolism]

It was my favorite planet. I can pretend it's a planet if I want to! What if it wanted to be a planet, hm?

Greetings.

Pluto is awesome.

[lichristine]

Thank you! I agree!

[thalbergmad]

It was my favorite planet. I can pretend it's a planet if I want to! What if it wanted to be a planet, hm?

It was more like a double planet than just a planet as Charon was too large to be considered a moon.

I feel sorry fo Clyde Tombaugh. All those hours with a blink comparator and his planet is downgraded. He must be turning in his grave.

To the ancient Egyptians, Sirius was the most important celestial body.

I wonder how old Sirius is. Could be as much as 7,000 years.

Thal

[prometheus]

The oldest story in the world gives the idea that the people thought their world was pretty old as well.