HELLO HELLO, I NEED HELP

[pianistimo]

no.  actually i have nothing to say. 

timothy42b - what do you have to say for yourself?  tell me the 42b means nothing to you.  and don't try to pass it off as 'i own 42 bibles.'

[thalbergmad]

42b, I don't think so.

Thank you for telling us all about your breasts.

Thal

PS I is 51GG

[ahinton]

next topic.  bra sizes.

Are these discussed in any of the surviving chapters of the Bible? I'm not Bible scholar, but I have to say that I've never heard of this.

Anyway, since you raised the issue, I thought that you might like to hear about a lady I met once who told me that she was a 38DD; the reason she mentioned this was perhaps not what you might think - it was because she was then 38 years of age and a Doctor of Divinity.

OK Susan, please don't feel obliged to tell us yours...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

PS I is 51GG

There are clinics that may be able to help...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

OK Susan, please don't feel obliged to tell us yours...

Best,

Alistair

She already has, you are not paying attention.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

There are clinics that may be able to help...

Best,

Alistair

What is perfect does not need changing.

Thal

[ahinton]

no.  actually i have nothing to say.

Well, you should have - you owe it to us all on what is, after all, a forum principally dedicated to musical matters, to respond to my remarks about yours about Busoni and Bruckner...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

She already has, you are not paying attention.

Thal

No, she hasn't; it's you who's paying only selective attention here. "42b" (to which I assume you to refer) is not that (well, not so far as I know, anyway, since I have no idea of pianistimo's bra size and it is neither my business nor my wish to ask)...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

musical mattets

Is this "new complexity", cos i have never heard of it.

Thal

[ahinton]

What is perfect does not need changing.

Thal

Precisely - which is why I wrote that there are clinics that could help...

Is my remark here an example of my being the dangerous gentleman of which Susan accuses me, do you think?...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Is this "new complexity", cos i have never heard of it.

Thal

No, it's the very old simplicity of my bad typing once more; that said, however, why would anyone expect to assume that, if indeed it were "new complexity", you would "never" have "heard of it"?

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

"Perhaps" "that" "is" "true", "becuase" "I" "am" "not" "familiar" "with" "music" "of" "that" "ilk".

"best"

"thal"

[ahinton]

"Perhaps" "that" "is" "true", "becuase" "I" "am" "not" "familiar" "with" "music" "of" "that" "ilk".

"best"

"thal"

OK - and it seems also that you are even less familiar with how best to use inverted commas...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

i thought for sure this might provoke some kind of 'morning talk show host duo' as is found on my daughter's radio station.  i come back to this?  questions again about bible verses?  so far, the only thing i've found is mention in the song of solomon of some cleavage = cleft rocks.  i'm sorry the bible is somewhat mystifying to gain sexual knowledge from.  it's a general point in the direction - but with a blindfold on.

now, i have no idea what you two are attempting, here.  i think thal - is trying to call me a hooker.  thal, have you ever met a hooker that played the piano?

and, alistair, gentlemanly as always - is preserving my dignity and bra size together!  ps alistair - i repent in dust and ashes for what i said about busoni.  i'm sure if i actually sat down and went through each of his  pieces - i would find a work that wasn't plagarized in any way.  maybe the first one?  well, in any case - ramseytheii is going to come here personally and kill me tonight.  you can be the second one.  i'll already be dead - but you can just make sure that the job is done. 

[ahinton]

and, alistair, gentlemanly as always - is preserving my dignity and bra size together!

Can one preserve what one does not actually know? One can try, I suppose...

ps alistair - i repent in dust and ashes for what i said about busoni.

No dust or ashes before me, please - just reconsider what you wrote having first listened to Busoni's two sonatas for violin and piano (the first of which is interesting, if immature), piano concerto, Toccata for piano and the four operas.

well, in any case - ramseytheii is going to come here personally and kill me tonight.  you can be the second one.  i'll already be dead - but you can just make sure that the job is done.

Gentlemen may, as the old saying goes, prefer blondes but they neither commit murder nor act as accessories after the fact in others' murderous activities - so I expect to read evidence by your own hand tomorrow that you are alive, well and pole-dancing - well, at least two of those three things, anyway (for you'd probably have no time for the third one if you've got all that Busoni to get through). And, while we're about it, do you not think that the composer who dedicated his final symphony to God merits a similar apology from someone in PA who actually converses with Him (God, I mean - not Bruckner)...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

when did bruckner declare himself god?  i think that de pachmann actually did at one point.  but, hey - the guy was a lunatic.  milking cows for technique.

seriously, alistair - if i even had five minutes with you to go through the busoni toccata or anything else like that - i'm sure i'd change my mind.  i love his transcriptions a lot! 

[jas]

PS, I hope there are 10 virgins in heaven. There are none over the age of 14 in the God forsaken craphole where i live.

You aren't from Glasgow, are you?

[timothy42b]

Okay, confessional time.

At my age (mid-50's) some things have faded, including memory.  I find it necessary to use the same login name on a number of systems. 

The 42b reference is not sexual.  For much of the last 50 years the standard trombone used in major symphonies in the US and to some extent the rest of the world has been either the Bach 42b or the Conn 88H.  Both are .547 bore tenor trombones with F attachments.  I play a Bach 42B that I bought in 1971.  It is showing signs of wear, like me, but still works fine.  And timothy is actually my name - at least I think.  Like I said memory is slipping a bit.  I KNOW my trombone is a 42b because it says so on the bell, but for my own name sometimes I have to ask my wife.  For praise and worship gigs I don't play the 42b, I play a smaller bore (.500) straight tenor because I think the tone matches the acoustics a little better. 

I try to be polite.  Perhaps in the heat of battle I get carried away.  I have a fear that the recent resurgence of a very vocal, irrational, and powerful group of literal fundamentalists may do incalculable harm to Christianity.  Once it goes from ridicule to irrelevant it disappears.  I would like to make a case for a moderate rational approach to Christianity.  I do not disparage the Bible - I do not believe that an honest approach to it, with all its flaws, is disparaging at all.  I believe it can stand up to that look.  I believe that to worship it, as some here seem to, is idolatry.  And I do not mean to pick on pianistimmo personally, but she sometimes becomes a metaphor for a larger group. 

[pianistimo]

i would never have guessed trombone size!

don't worry - no hard feelings.  we just happen to disagree.  as it stands, you appear to me to discount the bible entirely.  the worldwide flood never happened.  the world wasn't created in 6 days.  the apostles were scholars.  revelations doesn't mean anything to the second coming of Jesus.  etc etc.  i happen to think otherwise.  when i don't agree with you - you start diatribes because i interpret the bible literally.  well, either Jesus Christ told the truth or he did not.  you appear to make him a liar because you don't take it literally - and follow scholars instead.  but that is your decision. 

btw, i have read many articles by various christian scholars that mix evolution with creation.  to me, this is bizarre.

[timothy42b]

  the worldwide flood never happened. 

About 100 years before Darwin, Christian geologists as a whole realized there had never been a global flood.

They kept mostly quiet about it, being intelligent enough to try to stay alive.  This was a fairly open secret, but unknown to the average parishioner in the pew.

Since we know beyond any possibility of doubt there was no flood, and since the bible says there was, we have a dilemma.

The mainstream Christian position is that the Bible is inspired but  never intended to be a science text, and must not be taken literally when it conflicts with the obvious evidence. 

The minority position is that the bible is SCIENTIFIC TRUTH from first to last word, and if a single error were found we would have to discard the entire work.  Therefore we will insist there are no errors no matter what proof we are shown.  The proponents of this view very quickly look ridiculous to any reasonable person.  (this is taken as evidence of persecution, of course)  If this becomes the standard Christian viewpoint then the religion will die. 

[pianistimo]

the grand canyon is the best testament to the flood there is. how can that little river make a canyon.  you are going by scholars and not God.

[thalbergmad]

the grand canyon is the best testament to the flood there is. how can that little river make a canyon.  you are going by scholars and not God.

1. Best testament to erosion rather than a flood.

2. A little river can make a canyon, it just takes a long time. Anyway, that little river might have once been a bigger river.

3. Going by scholars is much more accurate.

I await your next absurd statement.

Thal

[ahinton]

I await your next absurd statement.

While you await this from Susan, may I just remind you of your own, which runs "I am going to burn in the fires of hell, for i am a non-believer"...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I fail to understand what is absurd about that.

I have based this statement on some of the posts by the tambo bangers.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

The minority position is that the bible is SCIENTIFIC TRUTH from first to last word, and if a single error were found we would have to discard the entire work.  Therefore we will insist there are no errors no matter what proof we are shown.  The proponents of this view very quickly look ridiculous to any reasonable person.  (this is taken as evidence of persecution, of course)  If this becomes the standard Christian viewpoint then the religion will die. 

A superb paragraph.

I guess it explains why some people with come up with any old crap to defend the Bible.

The 6,000 year old earth theorum springs to mind.

Thal

[pianistimo]

and, i suppose, Christ never walked on water.  it's too unscholarly.

[ahinton]

I fail to understand what is absurd about that.

Then you should be ashamed of yourself!

I have based this statement on some of the posts by the tambo bangers.

I thought you just wrote that you "fail to understand"; now you immediately reveal that you do!...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

and, i suppose, Christ never walked on water.  it's too unscholarly.

Saw him do it, did you?

I walked on water yesterday. About 100m. of badly flooded pavement (sidewalk to you); it had been raining hard. I admit that I wasn't reading a scholarly tome at the time, mind...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

and, i suppose, Christ never walked on water.  it's too unscholarly.

Have you ever considered the possibility that he did not?

Have you every entertained the thought that the phrase might have a completely different meaning or perhaps it was not translated properly?

Of course you have not. Because it is in your silly little edited book, you believe it without question.

You are a one track record.

Thal

PS I still luv ya

[thalbergmad]

Then you should be ashamed of yourself!

Not in the slightest.

Next please.

Thal

[ahinton]

Not in the slightest.

Why not? The suggestion that you should burn in a place in which you do not even believe (as far as I know) surely beggars belief? - it does mine, anyway, so why does it not yours also?  I don't believe that you'll do that and I'm sure that Susan doesn't either.

On a (sadly) related issue, I don't think I'll be able to write a single sound for the tambourine in an orchestral score for a long time without thinking of you and your references to the happy-clappies; I suppose I'll get past that eventually.

Anyway - "next" what? "please"...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Why not? The suggestion that you should burn in a place in which you do not even believe (as far as I know) surely beggars belief? - it does mine, anyway, so why does it not yours also?  I don't believe that you'll do that and I'm sure that Susan doesn't either.

I do believe in both heaven and hell.

The happy clappies have already said in a previous post that i cannot get into heaven unless i accept Jesus, so where else am i gonna go when i pop my clogs.

Thal

[pianistimo]

i thought muhammad was going to give you 10 virgins. 

[thalbergmad]

I would rather have 10 banjo's.

Thal

[ahinton]

I would rather have 10 banjo's.

Thal

I have to admit that, as I cannot quite see 10 virgins and 10 banjos serving anything like the same purpose for you, it is difficult to see why you'd express a preference; in any case, however, I do not understand what Susan meant by mentioning these 10 virgins in your context of whether or not you would burn in hell for being a non-believer. May be you each have a little explaining to do.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

well, as i see it - the bible mentions crowns saved up for us.  now, if it were banjos - it would be specified.  and yet, if we are made in the image of God and 'it does not yet appear what we shall be...'  - but God calls us His children - then we will be LIKE HIM (not Him of course - but spiritual bodies that don't die).  we will have creative abilities.  the ability to create as many banjos as we want. 

i think God enjoys the process of creation and He allows us to have a foretaste of it here.  He also says that there are 'pleasures forever more...' with Him.  they must be better than sex because He says we will be 'neither male nor female.'  what kind of pleasures we really don't know and have to trust Him on this one.  but, think - if He made sex in the first place and it was His idea and creation - surely He can make something even better and know that it IS better.

lastly, in revelations - He mentions a city (capital) of the entire world - who's streets are paved with precious stones.  'and he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem (the new one), coming down out of heaven from God.  having the glory of God.  Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.  It had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names...and the material of the wall was jasper; and the city was PURE GOLD, like clear glass (reflective and yet visible).  the foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precioius stone.'

it keeps on describing the city as better than any palace or hotel we have ever laid eyes on.  i remember once seeing the hearst castle (although we didn't get to go inside because it was closed that day) - and thinking how fun it would be to enter.  but, can you imagine God's own city that He has been preparing since the foundation of the world for us?  He is busy creating as we speak - our eternal inheritance.  if we look at the heavens - this is just a portion of what He has created.  there is MORE.  that we can't see right now.  the spirit element. 

really - i haven't a clue what being ressurrected and having a spiritual body is like.  but, i do not believe that when we die that we will not be ressurrected and with God if we trust Him now.  i think that everyone will have a chance to know God and choose between life and death.  literally forever.  to be with God forever or to be dead forever.  hell, explained in revelations is the second death.  to die, and not to be alive anymore.  the beast, false prophet, and satan are said to be the ones to be in 'torment' - because they will be in a 'lake of fire' or darkness.  spirit beings cannot burn up - but they will stay with all of the forces of destruction they used on this earth when they attempted to destroy it.  just looking at the evil that they enjoyed using - and contemplating their bad move to be apart from God and choose evil instead of life and light.  once a choice is made and the consequences given - it makes God a more real and powerful figure.  He cannot live with evil - and chooses to isolate it. 

[ahinton]

well, as i see it - the bible mentions crowns saved up for us.  now, if it were banjos - it would be specified.  and yet, if we are made in the image of God and 'it does not yet appear what we shall be...'  - but God calls us His children - then we will be LIKE HIM (not Him of course - but spiritual bodies that don't die).  we will have creative abilities.  the ability to create as many banjos as we want.

You really are digging yourself in deeper than ever here, Susan! Why not just back out of this bit of it and admit for the benefit of anyone who may be in doubt that there are no banjos mentioned anywhere in any known translation of the Bible - not even in Psalm 150 (and no tambourines either, I believe).

How many Joyce Hattos do you think could be created by the means that you mention? Just curious...

i think God enjoys the process of creation and He allows us to have a foretaste of it here.  He also says that there are 'pleasures forever more...' with Him.  they must be better than sex because He says we will be 'neither male nor female.'  what kind of pleasures we really don't know and have to trust Him on this one.  but, think - if He made sex in the first place and it was His idea and creation - surely He can make something even better and know that it IS better.

lastly, in revelations - He mentions a city (capital) of the entire world - who's streets are paved with precious stones.  'and he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem (the new one), coming down out of heaven from God.  having the glory of God.  Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.  It had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names...and the material of the wall was jasper; and the city was PURE GOLD, like clear glass (reflective and yet visible).  the foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precioius stone.'

it keeps on describing the city as better than any palace or hotel we have ever laid eyes on.  i remember once seeing the hearst castle (although we didn't get to go inside because it was closed that day) - and thinking how fun it would be to enter.  but, can you imagine God's own city that He has been preparing since the foundation of the world for us?

Pure fantasy. Nothing wrong with that, mind, as long as it is recognised as such. Schumann's Op. 17 is pure fantasy as well. I just don't take the former literally and one cannot take the latter literally because it is music, not words.

He is busy creating as we speak - our eternal inheritance.  if we look at the heavens - this is just a portion of what He has created.  there is MORE.  that we can't see right now.  the spirit element.

I thought that He'd already done creating - you know, the whole shebang in a mere six days; now you tell us that He's still at it. Typical builder - they say they'll finish on Saturday but they never do...

really - i haven't a clue what being ressurrected and having a spiritual body is like.  but, i do not believe that when we die that we will not be ressurrected and with God if we trust Him now.  i think that everyone will have a chance to know God and choose between life and death.  literally forever.  to be with God forever or to be dead forever.  hell, explained in revelations is the second death.  to die, and not to be alive anymore.  the beast, false prophet, and satan are said to be the ones to be in 'torment' - because they will be in a 'lake of fire' or darkness.  spirit beings cannot burn up - but they will stay with all of the forces of destruction they used on this earth when they attempted to destroy it.  just looking at the evil that they enjoyed using - and contemplating their bad move to be apart from God and choose evil instead of life and light.  once a choice is made and the consequences given - it makes God a more real and powerful figure.  He cannot live with evil - and chooses to isolate it. 

The sermon for today endeth here.

You should compile all this kind of thing that you write into that book that someone was suggesting that you put together, you know. The Perspicacious Prophecies of Pianistimo. Or maybe you could be more subtle than that and leave the ms. after you die, so that it may be "discovered" by a Biblical scholar and hailed as one of the Bible's long lost books, The Book of Susan. At least that way, the next revision of the Bible will be able to mention pianos, even if banjos will still be excluded...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

lastly  

When most people use this word, they don't type another 300 after it.

Thal

[timothy42b]

When most people use this word, they don't type another 300 after it.

Thal

A friend of mine who's a Baptist preacher told me the other day when he says, "and in conclusion..." it means there's about ten minutes left, get ready to play the hymn. 

[pianistimo]

well, as you can tell - i'm no baptist preacher.  at least another 30. 

[ahinton]

well, as you can tell - i'm no baptist preacher.  at least another 30.  but, hey - my husband falls asleep in ours and wakes up when he hears the music or when everyone starts standing up.  my husband congratulated himself last week for not falling asleep.  i'm not sure if he meant this as a compliment to the speaker - that he maintained interest (which i always think the speaker is interesting) or that he wasn't tired.

That's the first time I can recall a sermon in a Christian Church being promoted for its beneficial effects for people who have sleeping difficulties. I suppose that it might be a cheaper alternative to medication with the added advantage of less side-effects as long as the victim (sorry, patient) doesn't suffer as a direct consequence of the remainder of the service, but I suppose that the economics of it would largely depend upon whether the patient lives close by such a Church - there would, after all, be little point in using half a tank of gas to get there and back.

I suppose the only thing to guard against if this kind of treatment is attempted is the possible shock to the patient's system arising from being woken suddenly at the end of the sermon by loud bangs on a tambourine...

Best,

Alistair

[timothy42b]

It's true, you cannot get sleep like that at home. 

[pianistimo]

at least he's learned to sleep sitting up.  he used to nod off and gradually put his head on my shoulder.  but, i'd shake him when he did that.  thankfully, he learned to lean the other way.  i figured if he fell on the floor - he'd never fall asleep in church again.  somehow, he learned to sleep sitting straight up and has never fallen.

[ahinton]

at least he's learned to sleep sitting up.  he used to nod off and gradually put his head on my shoulder.  but, i'd shake him when he did that.  thankfully, he learned to lean the other way.  i figured if he fell on the floor - he'd never fall asleep in church again.  somehow, he learned to sleep sitting straight up and has never fallen.

But in all seriousness has it not yet occurred to you that his habitual sleeping through sermons might actually be indicative of his general lack of desire to attend such services? - after all, they are not intended as sleep-inducers, are they?

Best,

Alistair

[timothy42b]

Perhaps Susan keeps him up all night.  Err, cleaning or something. 

[pianistimo]

if only.  as soon as i say 'i need help with the dishes' - everyone is asleep on that front, too.  but, he works all day all week - so i suppose i can allow him to sleep once in a while.  i really tried to stop him from coming with me last week.  i said, we have no babysitter this week - why don't you just sleep in?  he jumps up and puts his clothes on.  i say - ok let's go in separate cars and you come later.  he thinks for a moment and grabs the five year old and jumps in the car before i can say 'squat.'  really - i can't get away from this man.  (not that i'd want to).  i just woke up in a bad mood that morning.  i actually got in the van - and then thought about gas prices.  so i said - ok - i really want to hear whatever they say - so if ivana is noisy can you take her out a bit.  of course, she's dancing all around each time the music is played.  i have to tame her like a tiger with a piece of meat dangled from my nose.  how can a person hear a sermon that way?

[penguinlover]

You don't realize it, but children hear the sermon too.  They just don't show it, but it sinks in.  It's important she see her parents go to church, and that she enjoys it!  I love it when children dance in church.  And it always surprizes me what they take away from it.

[pianistimo]

you're so right!  once we got there - it was really quite ok.  you know how you try to get dressed and the cat rips your nylons.  well, my daughter jumps on me like a little tigress.  i have to keep straightening my clothes.  but, if Jesus said 'let the little children come to me - he obviously wants them there.'

[ahinton]

you know how you try to get dressed and the cat rips your nylons.

Er - no, as it happens...

well, my daughter jumps on me like a little tigress.

That'd be a completely new one on me, too; whatever kinds of cat do you keep there in the tropics of Pennsylvania, Susan?

but, if Jesus said 'let the little children come to me - he obviously wants them there.'

Does that mean He'll look after them for a few hours while you practise, or do the dishes, or go on pianoforum telling us all about Him (and your tigress daughter and your nylons-ripping cat, etc.)?...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

you're so right!  once we got there - it was really quite ok.  you know how you try to get dressed and the cat rips your nylons.  well, my daughter jumps on me like a little tigress.  i have to keep straightening my clothes.  but, if Jesus said 'let the little children come to me - he obviously wants them there.'

Shame you were not in England over the weekend.

"Inherit the Wind" was on.

Most excellent film. You should watch it.

Thal