Bosendorfer piano?

[piano4me]

I have seen alot about the Bosendorfer piano on the forum, I haven't really ever heard much about this type of piano but alot of people seem to like it. Can someone clue me in on this type of piano?
   Thanks!   

[gfiore]

 Why not try www.boesendorfer.com to start with. Here's mine.

[pianowelsh]

It looks quite new?!?

They make a beautifull warm sound which is very mellow in the middle registers especially. Action is often a bit more positive than that of a Steinway. A very noble sounding instrument.

[gfiore]

Finished and air-freighted to me on April 29, 2004. And will still look new 40 years from now. I'm fanatical when it comes to maintainence and finish quality.

[mad_max2024]

I wish...
(sigh)
 

[piano4me]

thanks for the replies. does the bosendorger have a deeper, richer, better sound than the steinway or not necessarily? beautiful piano, gfiore!!

[pianowelsh]

Its gonna be your personal preference there and the individual instrument. Try some down your local dealership - its the only way.

[piano4me]

yea, that's what I'll do- they don't seem very common; am I right?

[gfiore]

Steinway and Bosendorfer have nothing in common with regards to action, tone, or price. They are two different worlds.  

[gfiore]

Steinway makes 5,000 pianos per year. Bosendorfer makes only around 350.

[pianowelsh]

you can get secondhand and reconditioned bosendorfers at around the price of a good new steinway model B in the UK. The feel is very different though the tone of a bosendorfer takes some getting used to when your in the set of a Steinway/Yamaha type of framework. But I find them very rewarding to play.  You may have to trek for a dealership who will stock both..but they do exist. You could of course book yourself a holiday in Vienna and take a trip around their factory and showroom!! that would be my preferred route - I could take in tea at the Sacher at the same time -mmm!

[piano4me]

I won't be replying until tomarrow but all the info is helping alot

[ahinton]

You could of course book yourself a holiday in Vienna and take a trip around their factory and showroom!! that would be my preferred route - I could take in tea at the Sacher at the same time -mmm!

OK, so when shall we go?!

Seriously - I have yet to encounter a finer, more satisfying piano than a newish Bösendorfer 290 that's been properly cared for by a good technician that's especially well versed in them. To me, one of the characteristics that sets it apart from almost any other piano I have experienced (apart from the absolute ultimate in Steinway Ds - and even then they're ahead by a distance) is one about which the very least is usually even mentioned - and that is its capacity to sustain melodic lines within quite a wide dynamic range across its topmost octave; this is a very rare thing in pianos and, whilst such a facility is not often called for, it is wonderful to have it there in the sure and certain knowledge that one can make a good sound in that area rather than either a weak one or a nastily brittle one.

There are other interesting new breeds of piano around, including the Australian Stuart and the American Rubenstein; I've heard mixed reports of the former (which seem to balance out at a manufacturing standard second to none but an overall sound that's pretty good but not enough to send it to the very top of the tree) and I've heard nothing about the Rubenstein from pianists who have played it (this is very much a limited edition instrument, a full 81cms. longer than even the Bösendorfer 290, has a cast steel frame and, I believe, weighs in at some 2½ tonnes); to my knowledge, the jury remains out on the question of whether its additional string length and soundboard area is of sufficient significance to provide serious competition to Bösendorfer's flagship instrument in its uppermost regions. It's a great pity that the short-lived Falcone is no longer made and that Mason & Hamlin appear to have no plans to make concert grands any more.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Alistair Hinton doesn't know what he's talking about!

A correction to my earlier post in which I errouneously stated that Mason & Hamlin no longer manufacture concert grand pianos; according to their website, their contribution to the world of concert grands is the model CC whose specification is found at https://www.masonhamlin.com/specification/
This instrument appears to be of a length more or less between the Steinway model D and the Bösendorfer 290.

Apologies for the earlier misinformation, which is from what I now discover to be a somewhat outdated source.

Best,

Alistair

[iumonito]

Try them, you may like them and that will be the end of the story.

People who love them rave about them.  Do listen, because these people have good reason to like them.  They are well executed and do what they do beautifully.

That having been said, I don't think I would make Bose my first, second or third piano, if I was to have three of them.  I find them unsatisfactory in vast portions of the literature, mostly anything that calls for more than mezzoforte.

I venture people who love them perhaps do not play a lot of Bartok, Prokofiev and Scriabin.  Mozart and Schubert come out great, but I (of course opinion) find them wanting even in Beethoven and Bach.  I have a CD of Rachmaninoff piano rolls reproduced on a Bosendorfer and that sounds is not wanting, so who knows?

Great connosieurs, like Badura-Skoda and Backhaus, would have disagreed, so take my comment with a grain of salt.

p.s. Alistair, I have played Mason's CC.  They roar, as you would expect.  Well prepped they are a thing to behold; excellent design.  I still like the Steingraeber 272 better, though; more colors available.

[ahinton]

I venture people who love them perhaps do not play a lot of Bartok, Prokofiev and Scriabin.  Mozart and Schubert come out great, but I (of course opinion) find them wanting even in Beethoven and Bach.  I have a CD of Rachmaninoff piano rolls reproduced on a Bosendorfer and that sounds is not wanting, so who knows?

Great connosieurs, like Badura-Skoda and Backhaus, would have disagreed, so take my comment with a grain of salt.

There's already at least 15 hours of Sorabji alone recorded on Bösendorfer 290s; he loved theinstruments and, although sadly he did not live to hear any of these recordings, they sound pretty dam' good to me ini this repertoire - and it should be rememberd that Sorabji calls for a very wide dynamic and otherwise expressive range in his piano music.

p.s. Alistair, I have played Mason's CC.  They roar, as you would expect.  Well prepped they are a thing to behold; excellent design.  I still like the Steingraeber 272 better, though; more colors available.

Do you mean one of recent vintage or an old one?

Best,

Alistair

[iumonito]

The CCs I played were recent, I think 2006.  I actually have not played any old Mason concert grands, only BB, AA and A, all of which were lovely (I am not much for smaller pianos, you can't teach tall).

Alistair, that's a good point about Sorabji's preference for the Bosendorfer sound.  Are the J. Powell recordings of Sorabji on Bosendorfer pianos?  Obviously, for something like the perfumed garden, the Bose is just what the doctor ordered.

[ahinton]

The CCs I played were recent, I think 2006.  I actually have not played any old Mason concert grands, only BB, AA and A, all of which were lovely (I am not much for smaller pianos, you can't teach tall).

That's most interesting, especially since yours is the only report I've heard from someone who has played a recent M&H grand; more details of your reactions, especially in respect of the CC, would be great to have.

Alistair, that's a good point about Sorabji's preference for the Bosendorfer sound.  Are the J. Powell recordings of Sorabji on Bosendorfer pianos?  Obviously, for something like the perfumed garden, the Bose is just what the doctor ordered.

All the Sorabji recordings by Jonathan Powell, Donna Amato, John Ogdon and Charles Hopkins were made on Bösendorfer 290s; oddly enough, Yonty Solomon's of Le Jardin Parfumé was on a Steinway D (and a very fine one of about 1980-not-very-much vintage, I seem to recall). Carlo Grante's of the second pastiche was also made on a Steinway D, I believe. I think that Fredrik Ullén is also using a Steinway D for his ongoing series of Sorabji's 100 Transcendental Studies.

Sorabji actually once asked me if I'd be kind enough to buy him a 290 as a present! Sadly, I was unable to oblige, for some reason...

Best,

Alistair

[iumonito]

Fascinating.

Sorry about not having the opportunity to give a 290 to KSS [fixed after Alistair's correction below].

In case no one has asked you lately, would you get me one?

As much as I bash them, I would certainly not mind it (although now that I think of it, I think I would quickly contact Mr. Fiore to see if he can find a suitable and worthy buyer).

I enjoyed the exchange; thanks.

[ahinton]

Fascinating.

Sorry about not having the opportunity to give a 290 to SKS.

In case no one has asked you lately, would you get me one?

It's KSS, actually. Indeed, no one has asked me for one lately - which is just as well, really, since I cannot afford even to get one for myself and am therefore obliged instead to content myself with an 1896 Steinway B (which is itself badly in need of major technician TLC) and a 1928 Mason & Hamlin small grand which is in pretty decent condition - so, I'm really sorry that I cannot oblige you on this occasion!

I enjoyed the exchange; thanks.

That makes two of us, then!

Best,

Alistair

[keyofc]

gfore,
I have heard that some of the Bosendorfers have three extra keys on them.
Do you know if that's true?
key of c

[jlh]

Yes, the 290 model and (I think) some of the other models have some extra key's on the bass end (colored black as well).

I played my entire recent recital on a new Bosendorfer Imperial 290.  It had several extra notes at the bass end.  Recordings of the recital are in the audition room if you're curious about the sound.

Josh

[gfiore]

The model 290 has 97 note compass, the extended bass range is below note A0. The model 280 has a standard 88 note compass. The models 275 and 225 have a 92 note compass, the four extra keys extend the bass below the note AO. All of the other models, the 170, 185, 200, and 214 are all standard 88 note keyboards.