chopin etude op 10 #2

[pianistimo]

ok.  here's my first take.  this isn't friday yet.  and, one problem i have is that i don't have it memorized - so on the page turns - i have to turn the page.  i looked around to see if i had copies of it - and i don't. well, anyways - i can play fast when i want to.

[kony]

er op10 #4?

[jakev2.0]

Is it?

[pianistimo]

oops.  my mistake.  you know - i think that's why i couldn't find the recording i wanted.  i must be tired tonight.  anyways, that one is #4 and i know i can do better, but it's just a sort of 'let's get it out' so i can play better on friday.  i hope?!

[jakev2.0]

Do you have a teacher, pianistimo? You seem to be a good learner with a lot of repertoire, but you really should not be attempting pieces of this difficulty yet.

[pianistimo]

actually, my teacher gave it to me.  after i had practiced it about six months - i could play it from memory and didn't have problems.  but, i have three children and not much time to practice until lately (with 5 year old in kindergarten now).  so, i'm gradually getting back into it.

also, as i was preparing for grad recital - i had an accident at the park where my daughter was playing and broke my right leg.  they always tell pianists to break a leg.  well, i broke it a year and a half ago and it kind of cramped my style.  it's much better now - and i can pedal - but i almost had to learn to repedal.  actually i had to learn to walk again on it, too. 

[jakev2.0]

Hmm... your teacher doesn't seem to be directing you too well. I think you could be playing piano pieces much better than you play this etude. 

[pianistimo]

i WAs playing much better than this, believe it or not.  the only trouble is that until you have a recital - there's no place to do a taping of the practice.  so i had not recorded it.  but, i feel now that i'm able to pick it up again and not really worry if it's imperfect now.  it will come.  and i have the ideas of the chords in my head somewhat- but have to rememorize.

[jakev2.0]

It's obviously a very difficult piece. Honestly, you cannot possibly be happy with the version you posted because it is a complete disaster.  If you do not have time to practice a piece, all the more reason not to share it with the world.

I wish you luck learning this piece, but seriously advise that you completely master pieces of easier difficulty first. It is much more impressive to play a Mozart sonata movement perfectly than a Chopin etude terribly. Aspire to the former.

[pianistimo]

don't tell me what to aspire to when you haven't posted an etude.  you be the next one.

ps you are inspiring me to learn it better.

[jakev2.0]

I have offered an honest, constructive, and fair opinion on your playing without having an actual relationship with you. I might find you such a charming person in real life that I could not bear to tell you that your Chopin Etude lacks even one properly executed passage.

The great thing about internet piano forums is that I may not be named Jake, might not be 19, may not even be male, and may have never even touched a piano in my life. You will never know. All you will know, is that somebody, somewhere has offered an opinion. Take it or leave it.

EDIT: I wish you the best of luck and hope you set goals and meet them. 

[opus10no2]

That's funny jake, I got the same impression that you'd never touched a piano in your life from your posts. 

[jakev2.0]

That's funny jake, I got the same impression that you'd never touched a piano in your life from your posts. 

You get the impression I've never touched a piano from my posts.

I get the impression that you've never touched a piano from your recordings.

[chromatickler]

I get the impression that you've never touched a piano from your recordings.

which is precisely why YOU don't post recordings, and i respect that. what i don't respect is the jealousy you showed for this pianistimo recording. 

[jakev2.0]

which is precisely why YOU don't post recordings, and i respect that. what i don't respect is the jealousy you showed for this pianistimo recording. 

You can merely surmise about the state of my pianism.

I have audible proof of how badly you play Chopin 10/1.

Gee, what do these exchanges teach us?

If you actively decide to post your playing on the internet for anyone or everyone on the planet to hear, be prepared to deal with the consequences

I invite anyone to tear to shreds the first recording I post for everyone to hear. I will be ready and will accept any criticism graciously. ...but you can bet that if I decide to share something, it will be of a standard I am happy with and it will likely stand up bravely to scrutiny.

[jakev2.0]

Bleh. Everyone forget everything I said. I love the playing in this thread. Keep up he great work rainbows and sunshine etc.

I'm gone from these forums. Bye bye. 

[chromatickler]

I have audible proof of how badly you play Chopin 10/1.

i have audible proof of how badly hamelin plays even the simple opening figurations of the winter wind.

i have visual proof of how badly tiger woods misses an easy putt

i have visual proof of how badly michael jordan misses a clear dunk

if you are trying to convince me i'm AT LEAST as good as any one of them, thanks but i can assure you i'm not.  

[pianistimo]

i'm not either.  come back jake.  i thought about this all night.  yes. i am obsessed with being a concert pianist.  it's ok if you dash my dreams.  many times i have looked up and seen my teacher with his head in his hands.  but the thing is - people like me can't give up.  if we give up - we die.  just going around doing laundry all the time is - well - stupid.  sometimes they can do their own laundry.  but, of course, balance in all things.  the thing is...

you are right, jake.  (come back here, will you?!)  i will probably never play chopin etudes like hamelin or pollini or whoever else.  but, it 's the process that i love.  i mean - i finally get these fingerings and they work at like 1:00 am in the morning when i've practiced for a couple of hours.  but, noone hears me play the best shot. 

i am stuck in mediocrity because i need to practice every day really smartly.  memorizing everything again.  this is, of course, true.  jake are you there?

and, kudo's for you not posting jamaican bobsledding.  but, for me - i am very needful of reassurance that i can play fast and that i can prove to others that i can play fast.  i can actually sustain it - too - when practiced. 

jake - youprobably do play piano well- -and i hope that i don't embarrass my teacher.  as someone else said on here - if you don't do it  (whether sightreading or anything else) then you just lose it.  i find with bicycling at the beginning of the year - i'm terrible.  then, by three months i'm back int the swing.  it's just doing something every day - or as often as possible.

ps you are probably right about sticking with mozart, too - but the thing is - i have played a lot of mozart and i want to move on to at least trying other things.  for instance i put my foot in the barber nocturne, this chopin etude, and a few other things that are a step or two beyond my reach - but i am challenging myself this way.

[menuet]

I'm sorry but I will have to agree with jake here.....
I've stoped listening to the recording at 1 minute, it is really really not mastered at all.

I myself could not be able to play it anyway, and I definitely don't have the skills to perform it..... but I would say he was right and gave you valuable advices, though you answer him very badly..... that's sad.

Based on this recording, I have to say this is terrible too.

You asked him to post a Chopin etude for him to dare giving his opinion ? I would say do it either !

Again, I'm a complete newbie, but I know this is not good.

I have to say that I liked some of your other recordings, but there is a lot of work left here before anyone can give advices / opinions on it.

[pianistimo]

i'm not disagreeing - if you see my last post.  what i find insulting is that people think that my age cannot play fast.  i CAN play fast.  just not as accurate.  hence the jamiacan bobsledding joke. 

i dare anyone to beat this:  don't laugh  (i'm reworking it so i can play it fast on friday)

[hakki]

Bleh. Everyone forget everything I said. I love the playing in this thread. Keep up he great work rainbows and sunshine etc.

I'm gone from these forums. Bye bye. 

Good bye to you.
No problem at all.

Regards,

[zheer]

actually, my teacher gave it to me. 

   This is one of the most difficult etudes, am not sure if it's the best place to start, but you did rather well.Needs time to develop.

[pianistimo]

agreed.  i'm glad he gave me something challenging, though.  i don't think it's impossible.  that's where people start playing the same level over and over and don't move on because they think they 'can't.'  when he gave me this piece - i told him 'i can't play chopin.'  he said 'yes you can.'  then, he gives me these tips and help about how to go about it.  i might never be an expert at the etudes - but i can give it my best shot now.

chopin and rach always have very large spanned chord - moving this way and that.  my teacher showed me the 'zip' where you can move your hand sideways and reach difficult notes or passages by moving the hand sideways really fast (not a 'rainbow' but a straight sideways motion) - and to angle towards the black notes to hit them securely. 

[cmg]

Hey, pianistimo, I want to congratulate you on your courage in putting out that Op10/4 for criticial review!

I know you don't have that much time to practice, so clearly you were giving us a "rough cut" in the early practicing stages.  Keep working on the piece.  I really think you'll nail it!  As you know, lots of slow practice.  It's such a hard Etude.  I still crash and burn whenever I try to play it for someone.  With no one listening, I can do it.  It's about as hard as Chopin gets.  You should work on the B-flat minor Scherzo, if you haven't already.  Easier and very grateful . . . well, except for that nasty development section in the Trio when your hands are about ready to drop off . . .
 

[pianistimo]

cmg, you are very kind.  this is exactly what motivates me to go forward.  i mean, i could just throw up my hands and say 'i'll never get it...what's the point.'  this morning - however - i decdied that i was really going to be serious and get it memorized.  if you play with notes - it will always sound bad.  this way it will come from my heart.  and, as pianowelsh said - i can always record a better version next month (or in a couple). 

i don't even have any of chopin's scherzos.  will have to look and find some on here - or get another paderewski order going.

[jakev2.0]

CMG: people should be encouraged to improve; not to embarrass themselves. 

[cmg]

CMG: people should be encouraged to improve; not to embarrass themselves. 

Point taken, Jake, but my goal is to encourage the redoubtable P to keep practicing.  I think we all recognized that her Etude wasn't ready for public consumption, but I think the dear lady has noted that being a stay-at-home mom is isolating and she enjoys the opportunity to 1) discuss piano literature (and other topics, God knows) with adults who are musically savvy, and 2) to play for us from time to time. 

I know you don't want her to be embarrassed.  Neither do I.  And your advice was kind and constructive.  But, what I heard in her etude was a pianist screaming to get out. 

Practice, pianistimo, practice, practice, practice and show everyone you can post a polished work.  Give yourself about six months of daily practice on this Etude, or, better yet, work on the "Revolutionary," Op. 10/12 if you insist on dazzling us.  Believe it or not, it's considerably more manageable than Op. 10/4.  Honest.  And don't worry about speed.  You obviously have fingers.  No need to show us speed until your technique is up and running. 

Better yet, give us Op. 10/3 after a few months of practice.  It's loaded with those beloved sixths of yours and, of course, that drop-dead tune.  Show us your lyrical side too.

[rachfan]

Hi pianistimo,

I do agree with the encouragement that cmg is giving you here (not that I haven't encouraged you myself, but more on tempos haha!).  But allow me to draw a parallel here as an illustration, if I may.  Do you remember Victor Borge, the pianist-comedian?  Yeah, the guy who would do a run up the treble scale then fall off the end of the piano bench.  He was actually a highly regarded pianist, having studied with luminaries like Frederic Lamond and Egon Petri, and had a successful career in Europe as a concert artist before he reinvented himself as a humorist and entertainer, because it gave him more enjoyment.  Anyway do you remember how he'd launch into a piece, then in a half minute or so the comedy would take over?  And every so often, even though everyone loved the jokes and antics, some in the audience would say, "Darn, why can't he finish just one piece?!"  On rare occasions he would play a piece through beautifully, and you could hear a pin drop in the hall while he played it.  I think what your audience is saying here is "When will we get just one practiced piece posted by pianistimo?!")  Everyone admires your sight reading (probably none of us can do that as well as you) and many here believe in you (I know I do), but they just want that one piece--no matter how long it takes you to prepare it, and no matter the degree of difficulty.  What say you?   

David

[pianistimo]

agreed.  thank you for your sincere crit.  i tend to be the same way.  i tell it like it is - and then hope i haven't offended the person.  i think the bible says something about this.  i mean - isn't there a place that says that the person who tells you the truth is your real friend.  so, i accept the crit and will post it later when it's really polished.  and, perhaps start working a few other etudes.  seriously, i didn't even consider playing them until taking lessons again.  i thought they were beyond me.  they still might be - but they are fun to attempt.  especially when you want to either make someone die laughing (as with my kindergartener  - on whom first seeing me start practicing the etudes seriously again - broke into uncontrollable titters).  i don't care if my family keeps telling me to 'put the earphones on, pleeeaase.'  someday - i will be just as good as i was 20 years ago. better, in fact. 

i may need the lights down low to get into the 'mood.'  i play better with them low or off completely.  the trouble with getting older is that you need more and more things 'just so.'  like the bench has to be in the right place.  that can take a bit of adjusting.  then, you have to check the wind conditions (so the pages don't flip before you want them to).  i've never actually seat-belted myself in - but victor borge may not have had a bad idea when it comes to digital keyboard playing.  at least if the keyboard falls - you'll still have something standing (sitting).  my show would be that i at least catch the plastic music stand and hold it up. 

now, with digitals you also have the danger of playing the etudes and accidentally hitting the rhythm and tempo buttons.  it speeds up and starts doing this swish swish sound - adding brush strokes to an ever increasing speed.  once, i actually tried to keep up with the suggested tempo - thinking it might be a divine cue.

[Mozartian]

it speeds up and starts doing this swish swish sound - adding brush strokes to an ever increasing speed.  once, i actually tried to keep up with the suggested tempo - thinking it might be a divine cue.

................................................................................................... ...............

I...

You...

Uhhh.....

....nevermind. I almost forgot we're supposed to be sunshiney here.

[pianistimo]

i ...  you... what?  for a minute i thought - oh, no - i knew this day was coming when my teacher went online.  but, i checked your profile and your 19 - unless you're not telling the truth.  (why do professional musicians always lie about their age? - it's like - let's just see what we can get away with here).

[lazlo]

I don't think the recording was that bad. It is a work in progress. Having said that,  I just don't see what the fixation is with playing such difficult repetoire when there's such a wealth of easier repetoire that is just as musically rewarding... 

[pianistimo]

true.  it's basically so i don't lose repertoire that was once in my fingers.  and, lately, i've decided that chopin isn't so unmanageable.  i really like the preludes right now and am working as many as possible.

i used to have it in my head that because i have smaller hands that chopin had too big of stretches to manage.  but, with the sideways movements and all that i was shown - it's really not that difficult once you practice a while.  another thing is that in this particular etude - you are forced to go right/left/right- with larger spanned notes fairly suddenly and consecutively.  that was hard for my brain to wrap around for some reason - but just yesterday it suddenly became a bit easier.  i think looking at the notes on the keyboard and hands is much easier than at the page of music.  you strategize more.

[Mozartian]

Actually (as my profile correctly states) I'm 18, pianistimo; and am very happy to say I am indeed NOT your teacher.

[Kassaa]

Actually (as my profile correctly states) I'm 18, pianistimo; and am very happy to say I am indeed NOT your teacher.

Let's play a duet!

[pianistimo]

uh oh.  well - happy you aren't my teacher, too, in that case.  i mean - it was hard enough looking at my teacher (late 20's early 30's) with doctorate already.  i'm sure you'll both go far.  just make sure that you do it with the intention of proving nothing to anyone excepting yourself.  it's just more fun that way.  there's always someone who doesn't like something.  andre watts is my hero.  he's always been good natured and basically does what he wants.  if it makes him happy - and the audience happy.  you know - a little gershwin inside.

[Mozartian]

Let's play a duet!

Sounds good.

[jakev2.0]

just make sure that you do it with the intention of proving nothing to anyone excepting yourself.  it's just more fun that way.  there's always someone who doesn't like something.  andre watts is my hero.  he's always been good natured and basically does what he wants.  if it makes him happy - and the audience happy.  you know - a little gershwin inside.

This is a very revealing statement, pianistimo.  I hear you loud and clear and wish you the best of luck.

[pianistimo]

thanks, jake.  i wish you the same!  here's another version tonight.  still not totally memorized - thus an 'almost' there version.  it's slightly smoother in the first three pages, though.

[lau]

 It is much more impressive to play a Mozart sonata movement perfectly than a Chopin etude terribly.

no it's not. ask any non-musician.

[teresa_b]

  yes. i am obsessed with being a concert pianist. 
  but, it 's the process that i love. 
  i am stuck in mediocrity

pianistimo, you say a lot right here.  I have listened to a number of your recordings, and you are not only not mediocre, you have a ton of talent!  I gather, though, that you are not 19 or 20, but a bit older.  As an ol' lady ( ) I have some insight I would like to share with you.  Take your "process" comment and run with it.  You love the piano (as we all do!), and you love making beautiful music.  Don't obsess about becoming a "concert pianist"--just revel in your music-making and practice the things you love.  If you want to perform publicly, look into opportunities--do you play in your church?  Also we have a wonderful amateur pianist (he is an engineer by day) here in Tampa who rents an auditorium once a year and plays a fabulous recital.  I myself have played with our local chamber group 6 or 7 times. 

You will not likely be a "concert pianist" who tours the world, but you can be one if you define it your own way. 

but, for me - i am very needful of reassurance that i can play fast and that i can prove to others that i can play fast.  i can actually sustain it - too - when practiced. 

"Fast" is not proof of artistry, only proof that you have practiced a lot.  Fast comes with repetitive practice, and is not, in my opinion, an especially helpful goal in itself.  You can play with a lot of artistry, and you don't need to "prove" yourself! 

Your own self-confidence does not have to depend on comments from the peanut gallery.  You have the ability to judge your own work--you know when it's good, and it matters not whether some joe-blow thinks you can play fast enough!

Have (more) fun!
Teresa