Why are we so terrified of Iran's increase in nuclear production?

[henrah]

The UN is thinking about sanctions towards Iran's increase in nuclear production, specifically because they are now making Heavy Water which contributes to the 'fissile' materials in nuclear weapons. But why? Why are we jumping to the conclusion that they are making WMD's when they could just need more power to supply their country? And why don't we jump to this conclusion when the UK and US build a new nuclear plant?

[pianistimo]

because their president only speaks hateful words toward israel, the usa and britain?  i don't think all iranians are this way - and i don't think the usa has been correct in it's diplomacy always.  perhaps arrogance is on both sides.  BUT, if we have democracy on our side - why say now 'democracy is out.  dictatorship is in.'  do you actually want the president of iran to wipe israel off the map?

i feel very strongly about this issue - but the thing is - nobody is right!  not the usa, nobody!  only Jesus Christ.  his methods of peace are not to harm innocent civilians or anyone who is not heading terror.  people who live by terror will die by terror.  people who trust in peace and love - work through diplomacy as much as humanly possible, imo.

the only problem that we have had for a long time - is that diplomacy doesn't always work as fast or in the particular manner that we had sought.   also, the world today is in a much different place.  we are not witnessing single coutries here - but short brief spurts of coalitions of many groups of countries against many other groups of countries.  you know.  world war.

[rach n bach]

Because this is the same man who has sworn to "wipe Israel into the sea" and to eliminate the US as a threat. 

Say your brother tells you that he just wants something to drink... and he starts to fill up his super soaker.  You then kindly ask him why he is doing that, and he tells you he is thirsty.  Well, if you try to get Mom and Dad to help their orders will have effect well after he wastes you.  I think the US and Israel feel as if this is the position they are in.

RnB

[timothy42b]

The cold war was based, among other things, on MAD.  Mutually Assured Destruction.  I won't hit you because I'm scared you'd hit me back.

What if the other guy isn't afraid? 

That is the essence of the problem.  We have people who aren't afraid to die, sometimes on religious grounds (since pianistimmo brought it up).  So fear alone won't keep them from doing something catastrophic.   

[pianistimo]

there are radicals in every country and group - they don't HAVe to be religious - but in this case SOME are.  not everyone. 

just as with religion - not everyone says 'kill your enemy.' 

imo, God's first choice is always diplomacy.  'is not my Word like a rock, which hammers...etc'  'the word of God is a two-edged sword'  - 

that's because all He has to do is say the word - and the world is made or entire mountains collapse.  i don't think he wants the earth destroyed - but MAD is going to be less of a thing to worry about than the judgement of God in the end.  if one dies forever - that means - they will NEVEr be  alive again.  after the second ressurrection.

[rach n bach]

Tim is so right.

The free world eventually ran down the soviet war machine simply because it couldn't keep up a balance of power.  In the case with Iran though, they arlready know thier behind, but that we, most likely, wont even try to hit back.  Very scarry.  

RnB

[pianistimo]

sorry to bring in the bible - but it's all prophecied.  the king of the south pushing against the king of the north.  (middle east against europe)  and then the kings of the east coming.  they all gather at megiddo and do themselves a favor.  nothing to fear really.  if you are a christian - if you die - you are ressurrected.  fear is always death - but hey- it's going to happen to all of us sooner or later.  fear the second death!

[rach n bach]

I totaly argee with you pianistmo, but my understanding of the question was that is was more along the lines of why sould we, in general, be afraid.  I do not fear for my own death, but that of the millions of others who will be vaporised when the nukes start flying.  If I die? bah, I exepet my own government to kill me before I get a chance to die from a forigen attack.

RnB

[ahinton]

sorry to bring in the bible - but it's all prophecied.  the king of the south pushing against the king of the north.  (middle east against europe)  and then the kings of the east coming.

Doesn't mention the King of the wild west or the deep south though, does it?!...

I don't think that the Bible prophesied, let alone commented upon, Islamic fundamentalism taking hold to greater or lesser degree in the land where Zoroastrianism had been born well before Biblical times, either...

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

One think I don't understand is how countries like Israel, the USA and Britain are allowed to have nuclear weapons but not Iran. I am of course against any of them having it, but still if you want someone to change their behaviour you should at least try to set a(an?) good example. This may of course be to complicated for some people to understand

[rach n bach]

I think the logic behind it is that at least those 3 contries have never vowed to push thier enemies into the sea...  while Iran has.  They have threatened virtually everybody with desctruction, and now they try to build nukes...  coincedence?

RnB

[cmg]

The cold war was based, among other things, on MAD.  Mutually Assured Destruction.  I won't hit you because I'm scared you'd hit me back.

What if the other guy isn't afraid? 

That is the essence of the problem.  We have people who aren't afraid to die, sometimes on religious grounds (since pianistimmo brought it up).  So fear alone won't keep them from doing something catastrophic.   

Good point.

Interestingly, however, the early Christians actually provoked Roman soldiers into killing them ("The Savage God:  A Study of Suicide"," by A. Alvarez) because of their belief that dying in the name of Christ would guarantee them a place in "Heaven."  My point being that Christians claimed and still claim to have no fear of death since they will be resurrected, so what makes them any different from the devotees of Islam?

As "henrah" wisely asked, why are we not afraid, then, when Christian nations build and expand nuclear power plants and arsenals?  Christians claim that they are not afraid to die either, yes?  Why should we trust their motives in expanding nuclear capabilties anymore than those countries in the Middle East?

[dnephi]

Your mom

[pianistimo]

good arguments.  the thing is -either you believe manifest destiny or your don't.  i believe this country was blessed into existence.  i believe that it was meant to be a country that spread the word of God and the bible.  nowdays - it is an embarrassment to have the ten commandments anywhere around a court building.  should we be surprised when God does not help us with diplomacy or a war?  we have left Him out.

also, i don't think war was ever a first choice for britain or the usa or israel.  their enemies drive them to it.  terrorists.  we do not go into their countries and  kill innocent  people and terrorize them.  they have been taunting us for many years by kidnapping and beheading innocent  people who go for travel or business.

democracy isn't perfect.  everyone knows that.  but it's way better than dictatorship - for anyone who speaks honestly whos been through a dictatorship.  would you like iran to rule the world and women to wear burkas and not have an education.  i'd rather die.

america is not fundamental anymore.  people always say it is - to make things look even.  but, if everyone actually repented and prayed - we'd see a total difference in the amount of troubles we have.  they are from forsaking God.  not following Him.  we were told to be a light to the world.  actually, all the countries that have the bible - are possibly and probably descendants of the 12 tribes of israel.  only one tribe was judah (and levi) which are jewish descent.  don't you think it is odd that all these countries want to preserve israel?  and the eastern ones - without christianity - don't care if israel survives or not.  that is where history comes in.  the essence of the christian faith is that Jesus Christ walked and preached in and around jerusalem for the sake of loving the entire world.  and, many believe he will return there.  that is why we do not think that even iran can outdo God in wrath.

about zoroastrian being before the bible?  i think it was created in babylon - which was a city that nimrod founded before the flood.  persian.  i think that saddam hussein was actually rebuilding babylon - from the time of nebuchadnezzar's temple - and i'm sure that you can find evidence for zorastrianism having been more fully practiced even then.

[rach n bach]

Good stuff pianistimo...

Again cmg, I think it is because the "chistian" nations aren't vowing to blow thier enemies away.  Did we vow revenge aginst Chavez?  Did we treaten to nuke Iran? Iraq? Libya? China? North Korea? I didn't see any of that...  did I miss something?

RnB

[pianistimo]

agreed!  i think that we saw how deadly nuclear war was in the second ww and many people were sickened.  hiroshima.  nagasaki.  it was too much.  it was wrong.  everyone knew it. 

i really think the only way for peace is if Jesus returns.  if He didn't/doesn't (which i don't believe would be true - because His word never returns to Him void) - living life would be extremely perilous.

[pianistimo]

i realize i am presenting my own views - and some may seem a bit far-fetched.  but things can change very fast - given the right circumstances.  i mean -worldwide computer technology allows quite a few things to be possible now that simply weren't in the past.  when i read revelations in the bible - and hear 'beast power' - it = world ruling empire.

[jakev2.0]

Ahmadinejihad.

[mephisto]

I think the logic behind it is that at least those 3 contries have never vowed to push thier enemies into the sea...  while Iran has.  They have threatened virtually everybody with desctruction, and now they try to build nukes...  coincedence?

RnB

er, USA are the only ones who have actually used it, that is what we should be afraid of.

[henrah]

So it is the open threat of a nuclear attack that gives birth to the terror of Iran gaining nuclear weapons, whereas other countries who have them haven't been threatening and merely have them to basically say "Ah ah aahhh, don't try that sh*t with me."

Thing is, those countries that do have WMD's and aren't threatening anyone, when they get into a situation I doubt they would resort everytime to nuclear strikes. They would be the very, very last resort. And from that, I wonder: was the drop on Hiroshima and Nagasaki the last possible resort for America?

I guess that it was, because back then they didn't have the technology and firepower they do now, and there weren't many intermediate weapons between normal bombs and atomic bombs. Now there are cruise missiles, tomohawk missiles, etc etc, and nearly everything can be settled using those rather than resorting to nuclear attacks. Communication outposts and air bases can be taken out with minimal casualties to affect a retaliation and no longer do we have to resort to killing millions and millions to end confrontations.


So I guess Iran just want to destroy (and conquer) rather than end confrontations in the most peaceful way possible.

[jakev2.0]

Iran acquiring WMD is a big deal because they have an insane leader and faith based leadership.  The West doesn't want to be held ransom by tyrants.

[cmg]

Good stuff pianistimo...

Again cmg, I think it is because the "chistian" nations aren't vowing to blow thier enemies away.  Did we vow revenge aginst Chavez?  Did we treaten to nuke Iran? Iraq? Libya? China? North Korea? I didn't see any of that...  did I miss something?

RnB

Yes, you did miss something.  First, the US, a Christian nation, was the first nation to use nuclear weapons and we chose to target two civilian sites.  Hiroshima and Nagasawki.  Civilians sites.  Not military installations.  (The Japanese in WWII, as you may have also missed, struck us at Pearl Harbor -- a US military site, not a civilian site.)

And the US tested atomic weapons at Los Alamos before the attack on Japanese men, women and children.   The US exposed its own soldiers (documented in film footage widely available) to radiation from these test explosions.  Physicists knew exactly how dangerous these weapons were before they were deployed on Japan.

You may also have missed our almost total deforestation of North Vietnam and huge chunks of Cambodia with Napalm, a product of Dow Chemical back here in the US.  No, it wasn't nuclear weapons but its effects were equal to that.  Not to mention, of course, our wholesale bombing of this country which rendered it nearly uninhabitable for years.

Vietnam never threatened us, by the way.  But that didn't stop the march of Christianity against the atheism of Communism.  Did you miss the bogus "domino theory" used to justify this ruinous war to the gullible American public?  Communism was "godless," and if it took a foothold in Southeast Asia, the whole world would follow?  It happens, as you may not have missed, that communism has died of its own inefficiency and corruption at the top levels of leadership.

Nuclear weapons are not the only things nations threaten other nations with.  The MidEast nations have long known that our only interest in them is their oil.  They have resented our political/economic destabilization of their part of the world for decades now.  That's the reason for their hatred of us.  They simply want us out -- gone from their part of the world.   But we won't leave.  Why?  The largest oil desposits in the world are there.  That's why.

And we don't need to threaten Chavez.  We have an agency known as the CIA which is most effective in fomenting internal wars and insurrections anywhere it chooses.  That will be our target to remove Chavez.  It's what the CIA is designed to do.  Does the agency use nukes?  Well, no, but its behavior is a huge threat to other nations.

When anyone tries to reduce politics to the "good guys" and the "bad guys," I have to wonder, yes, just how much they "missed" in the way of education.  And to reduce this current global situation to a "prophecy" in a Book with no proof of provenance regarding its authorship is patently absurd.  Saying that"God" wrote it or inspired it is strictly a matter of opinion.  And since opinion is the yardstick apparently used by Christians to judge validity, we must also assume the Koran is equally valid and equally, then, the "Word of God."  Millions happen to believe that, as you may have not missed.  It's their opinion, too.  

But, we've all been here before, haven't we?      

[henrah]

Iran acquiring WMD is a big deal because they have an insane leader and faith based leadership. The West doesn't want to be held ransom by tyrants.

And I assume the East don't want to be held ransom by free world democrats.

[jakev2.0]

Japan isn't threatening to bathe North Korea in flames.
Israel isn't threatening to wipe Iran of the face of the earth.

Democracies have regard for human life, and fight to protect their security and their other interests.  Dictatorships do not have regard for human life and are not always rational.

This is why Iran shouldn't have WMD.

[prometheus]

Israel did threaten Iran with nuclear weapons several times.



Iran didn't invade another country for 200 years. It's hard to find another coultry with such a record. Let alone one with nuclear ambitions.

[pianistimo]

israel merely said it would defend itself against a nuclear attack if necessary. 

as i see it- japan was an agressor in wwII.  yes.  it struck at pearl harbor and alaska.  that is to gain a foothold.  an entrance.  do you think it would have stopped there.  they did not kill in instant.  they tortured.  as many of our prisoners of war will testify.

yes. the usa has done it too.  we are all evil.  none of us is good.  war is evil.  nuclear warfare is the worst of it all.  but, there have been many instances where help and aid was given to other countries by whom?  usa!  the red cross was probably started by mostly usa/britain/canada/australia/french/italian/swiss volunteers.

is the free world really free anymore?  i don't think we are allowed to be free when God is forsaken.  we are taken captive.  told what to do.  i'm sure it can happen to us.  i think it will.  it's prophecied.  the ten nations (beast power) that comes together will suddenly overwhelm us - because we think we are allied - but we are not.  i think it is only a matter of time until a 'one world system' is here.

and, cmg, for the record - i don't think that any country is 'good' entirely.  but, the democratic system at least allows us to be 'innocent until proven guilty.'  genocides haven't happenened in our countries.  they have in vietnam, cambodia, korea, china, russia, phillipines, thailand, iran, iraq, and africa, bosnia (not the least ! children with limbs cut off).  the list is endless.

but, usa is not entirely guiltless when it comes to what tactics are used.  although, much drug trafficking is used to pull our country down.  i think when 'fear' enters the pictures - then people use desperate means.  if you trust God - you don't need to come up with your own plan of devices.  you pray and ask God for wisdom and diplomacy.  peaceful measures.  the usa isn't UNDER GOD anymore (as a whole).

[pianistimo]

much of history has been revised - and is actually being taught this way in america and britain?  why?  so people accept a world government that is supposedly more fair.  it could be at the beginning - but may end as a dictatorship of the worst kind.  (as usually happens!)

the end of wwII happened because we made it happen.  was it right?  world wars are never right.  but we were not the agressor and only reluctantly entered.

the sad thing is that there are always evil people in every country who do terrible things - and not for fighting for freedom.  they just like to kill.  i think george washington said 'to be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace.'

Jesus Christ on the other hand - will effect the 'law of the land' and we will not have to lift a finger.  in fact, all the weapons of warefare will again be changed to peaceful purposes.

[ahinton]

israel merely said it would defend itself against a nuclear attack if necessary.

and one that would "wipe it off the map" might make that statement somewhat plausible as far as it goes and if it can be believed as such...

as i see it- japan was an agressor in wwII.  yes.  it struck at pearl harbor and alaska.  that is to gain a foothold.  an entrance.  do you think it would have stopped there.  they did not kill in instant.  they tortured.  as many of our prisoners of war will testify.

yes. the usa has done it too.  we are all evil.  none of us is good.  war is evil.  nuclear warfare is the worst of it all.  but, there have been many instances where help and aid was given to other countries by whom?  usa!  the red cross was probably started by mostly usa/britain/canada/australia/french/italian/swiss volunteers.

It's the "we" in the thread subject that bothers me; who's "we"? (apart from certain Americans and some people in various other countries)...

is the free world really free anymore?

Was it ever?

i don't think we are allowed to be free when God is forsaken.  we are taken captive.  told what to do.  i'm sure it can happen to us.  i think it will.  it's prophecied.  the ten nations (beast power) that comes together will suddenly overwhelm us - because we think we are allied - but we are not.  i think it is only a matter of time until a 'one world system' is here.

Here we go again. All that you're talking about - and certainly the thread topic itself - is not something for which we should either be blaming God or expecting Him to provide all the answers. The "one world system" - i.e. global government - may come about eventually (or it equally may not), but I'n not sure that what might have to do with Irán's nuclear plans, whether they are purely for the purpose of creating domestic electricity or for other reasons.

and, cmg, for the record - i don't think that any country is 'good' entirely.  but, the democratic system at least allows us to be 'innocent until proven guilty.'  genocides haven't happenened in our countries.  they have in vietnam, cambodia, korea, china, russia, phillipines, thailand, iran, iraq, and africa, bosnia (not the least ! children with limbs cut off).  the list is endless.

No list is endless, otherwise it wouldn't be a list - but you have names countries in the Far East, almost the whole of Asia and Eastern Europe and the entire continent of Africa (you didn;t mention anywhere in South America); there ain't a whole lot left, is there? The "democratic system" may have its virtues but it's as much of a con as almost any other government system, especially when it gets - as all too often it does - too powerfully all-invading. Thou shalt not do this and thou shalt do that - we will determine how you live your lives because we know best - that's democracy for you - a nice kind democratic government that increasingly interferes in the way you do thing, but all for the common good, of course.

but, usa is not entirely guiltless when it comes to what tactics are used.  although, much drug trafficking is used to pull our country down.  i think when 'fear' enters the pictures - then people use desperate means.

Sure - but when doesn't it?

if you trust God - you don't need to come up with your own plan of devices.  you pray and ask God for wisdom and diplomacy.  peaceful measures.

Put another record on, Susan. PLEASE! It doesn't matter to you, apparently, what may be happening either in those countries you mention (a much bigger "axis of evil" than the one that Mr George Walter Bush infamously declared some while ago) or even in those "democratic" countries such as USA, to the extent that if we all abnegate responsibility for doing anything about it except praying to the Christian God (and I know you didn't say that in so many words, but do remember that most Iránians do pray to a non-Christian one every Friday), everything will eventually be fine, because we will have prayed to that God.

the usa isn't UNDER GOD anymore (as a whole).

No, of course not - it's under the said Mr George Walter Bush - but then it never was "under God"; it may have been so at times in certain parts of the south and in Bible belts in other parts including where you are, but it's never been a majority right across US.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

i really think the only way for peace is if Jesus returns.  if He didn't/doesn't (which i don't believe would be true - because His word never returns to Him void) - living life would be extremely perilous.

Give it a rest for a bit would ya.

This is a thread about Iran's nuclear production.

Is there any thread that is safe?

Thal

[zheer]

Israel did threaten Iran with nuclear weapons several times.

  Good point, not only that Israel has also used its nuclear weapon on IRAQ during the Golf war.
Ok am going to try hard to remain cool,  but who the F**K does Bush and his supportes think they are ,am fully aware that there are a number of Bush supporters on this forum i think they are called Republicans so am out-numberd but you cant go round invading and bombing nations simply because you can. The USA has brought distruction everywhere it goes, what is this Vatican shpeel, some sort of religious moral high ground , pfftt you know what there is so much problem in this world and Iran is'nt one of them.

[Bob]

Some other points I have heard...

A nuclear war in the mideast would have a negative impact on the the oil that everyone is using.

Iran could give some nukes to North Korea.

Israel would strike first to defend itself before Iran gets its nukes.

2/3 of the Iran population is upset with the leadership.  The U.S. doesn't want to step in, force things to happen, and become the bad guy.  It would rather have the majority of Iran rise up against its leadership.


Those are other ideas I have heard.  I think that's what I've heard.  I'm not an expert.

And I can't imagine blowing up nukes helps around the world -- the nuke garbage would blow around the planet from what I hear.

[prometheus]

  Good point, not only that Israel has also used its nuclear weapon on IRAQ during the Golf war.

I never heard about this. What are you talking about? Surely it wasn't actual nuclear weapons? Do you mean grenades that use heavy metals uranium?

[pianistimo]

israel is too small of a country to strike first.  what we are talking about is WWIII.  if it happens - everybody goes EXCEPT israel. why.  because that is when there will be divine intervention.  a genocide of israel will not happen again.  not in the way it did in WWII.  i believe that Jesus will return to the mt. of olives and there will be a really great earthquake - and people will realize bombs are not the idea here.  God is.  He owns the world.  no one single person can 'own' the world.

and to those that look down upon usa - i understand the viewpoint - but at the same time realize in my heart that many of our men died so that iraqi's could be free of saddam hussein.  it doesn't mean anything?  blood is blood.  and it's all the more precious when we realize that it was for freedom for another country.  freedom to vote.  freedom to have an education.  freedom to be different.  but, iraq does not sustain the peace because of too much internal tension between the shiites and sunnis.  and, because iran and other countries do not want this country to be a success.  they want to take over.  it is very plain because they are attacking the shiites now.  (being the ones to be the genetic successors of a dynasty from long ago).  get rid of any physical element of the leadership of iraq and take it over.  iran is iraq's enemy.  not usa.  but, it seems that usa IS the enemy because of the amount  of terrorists in the area.  they fight AGAINST the idea of any sort of help from western nations because they think we are greedy.  some may be - but, hey - we have given a lot of technological information, money, time, planning, etc etc.  bargains are fair - if everyone agrees.  we have never just gone over and not paid for the oil.  the iraqis set the price. 

it would seem unfair if we went over and stole oil.  i don't think it possible - especially after so much war.  it's becoming an ecological nightmare.

ps there is a warning to those who live in israel in the book of matthew.  when you see armies surrounding jerusalem - go to the mountains.  do not look back.  i believe that Jesus said this because jerusalem will be attacked.  divided.  whatever.  but, it won't last.  when Jesus returned from the temptation from satan (40 days) he went into nazareth - and according to his custom entered the synagogue on the sabbath and stood up to read.  this is what He read:  'the Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He annointed me to preach the gospel to the poor.  He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free those who are downtrodden, to proclaim the favorable YEAR OF THE LORD.'  what year is this?  the year and day and hour HE returns!

[pianistimo]

sorry to make this so long.  but, matt 24:15-16 is where Jesus tells those in jerusalem what to do to escape the things which may come upon the city.

ps.  the 'we' used in the context of the red cross - is simply those who are peaceful and seek peaceful measures when in other countries.  treating the wounded of any nation as humanely as possible.  also, in very many earthquakes and natural disasters, the red cross has been there.

understandably there is a chasm between those who believe the bible literally - and those who don't.  matt. 24:27'for just as the lightening comes from the east, and flashes even to the west, so shall the coming of the son of man be.'  the sun is said to become dark and the moon also will not shine.  people will know this is God talking. 'and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky (perhaps the same sign as was noted by astronomers when He was born?), and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.  and He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds (directions), from one end of the sky to the other.'

he goes on to say 'even so you too, when you see all these things (warnings in earlier verses of what is going to happen), recognize that He is near, right at the door.'

[prometheus]

Israel is too small of a country to strike first. 

History has already proven you wrong.

[pianistimo]

show me a newspaper clipping prometheus.  you are a revisionist.

[prometheus]

Israel has been involved in several wars. Don't you know them?

Anyway, you claim that Israel would never attack first because they are too small a country.

Israel never lost a war. They won most of them. In most of them they were attacked. Their enemy had the initiative, which is a clear military advantage.

But everyone knows which war Israel started and won. And the whole reason they attacked first was because they are so small. If you don't know what you are talking about then shut up.

And on top of that Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon twice as well.

[rach n bach]

  Good point, not only that Israel has also used its nuclear weapon on IRAQ during the Golf war.

First of all, I assume you mean gulf war. 

Which one are you talking about???  Israel has NEVER used nukes in combat... I don't even think they have depleted uranium shells like the US does. 

RnB

[zheer]

And on top of that Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon twice as well.

  prometheus my political alliance your are indeed, dont worry you are in good company, we are dealing with satan. I have a feeling Since many influencial figures in America are Jewish, Bush and his criminal gang are playing their card accordingly.

[thalbergmad]

i believe that Jesus will return to the mt. of olives and there will be a really great earthquake - and people will realize bombs are not the idea here.  God is.  He owns the world.  no one single person can 'own' the world.

There are tons of other threads where you can spout this trash.

Try and talk sense for once.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I am concerned about Irans nuclear production, but equally i am concerned that the USA has got nuclear bombs.

Who the hell do the Americans and the British think they are to try to stop another country acquiring what they have already got themselves. They seem to look upon themselves as the Worlds Police Force, but Bush is nothing but a trigger happy moron and Blair is nothing short of a puppet who is having his strings pulled.

I have changed my mind about the invasion of Iraq, as it is now clear that there were no WMD and therefore no justification for an invasion. The sooner that Bush and Bliar stop meddling in other countries affairs, the better off those countries will be.

If the Middle East want to get involved in a war, i say let them. It will eventually happen with or without external meddling. Why should anyone else get involved.

Thal

[ahinton]

Who the hell do the Americans and the British think they are to try to stop another country acquiring what they have already got themselves. They seem to look upon themselves as the Worlds Police Force, but Bush is nothing but a trigger happy moron and Blair is nothing short of a puppet who is having his strings pulled.

I'll tell you who they think they are - the righteous (and I don;t just mean that in a Christian religious sense either) - "think" being the operative word...

The sooner that Bush and Bliar stop meddling in other countries affairs, the better off those countries will be.

Yes, but it's abit late now, is it not - the damage has been done and, to be fair, some of what the Brits are doing now in Iraq is genuine reparations - OK, if they'd not done the damage in the first place, etc., etc....

If the Middle East want to get involved in a war, i say let them. It will eventually happen with or without external meddling. Why should anyone else get involved.

I think that this may be a potentially risky and dangerous question, given modern weaponry and its global range and scope, but I see where you're coming from and, in principle, at least, I cannot help but empathise...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Yes, but it's abit late now, is it not - the damage has been done

Indeed, and this damage will take years to repair and perhaps we will never be forgiven.

Already, Bliar has turned this Country into a top target for terrorists and yet the moron refuses to acknowedge that the invasion of Iraq has increased the threat.

I was very much for the war when it started as i swallowed the weapons of mass distruction crap. It seems to be clear that Saddam had nothing of the sort and the invasion was completely unjustified.

It concerns me greatly that Bush will attack Iran and the puppet Bliar will meekly follow. If my memory serves me, both of these retards think they are guided by God, which makes them even more dangerous.

It is my personal opinion that the terrorist threat to the UK will disappear when we stop interfering in the affairs of other countries.

Thal

[zheer]

Indeed, and this damage will take years to repair and perhaps we will never be forgiven.

  I think we all make mistake, and Bliar made a mistake which can be forgiven. We cant be sure of the true intention of politicians, but i don't think Blairs Intention was a criminal one,so for that reason he can be forgiven. However it is still early days, who knows what will happen in he future.

[living_stradivarius]

The UN is thinking about sanctions towards Iran's increase in nuclear production, specifically because they are now making Heavy Water which contributes to the 'fissile' materials in nuclear weapons. But why? Why are we jumping to the conclusion that they are making WMD's when they could just need more power to supply their country? And why don't we jump to this conclusion when the UK and US build a new nuclear plant?

One of the major mistakes related to going into Iraq is having created this power vacuum which Iran is exploiting. Public opinion unfortunately is letting the Iraq war shape their opinion on Iran rather than analyzing the scientific and legally binding issues involved.

ALL Politics ASIDE:
Iran has repeated violated the NPT and IAEA standards, and is enriching uranium to 90%, which is weapons grade. If they cannot respect legally binding international law, they have no "entitlement" to nuclear power. Why refuse LWRs, third party enrichment, and the chance to gain some credibility? It would be naive to trust them given their actions, given the enormous risks involved in nuclear technologies.

They have also obtained over 3000 centrifuges for their Natanz reactor, which is unnecessary for nuclear power but necessary for nuclear weapons.

Someone said that Iran hasn't invaded a country for years. That's because they're WEAK -- mullahs could never create a viable military force. They've consistently resorted to terrorism not only with regards to "Western" entities which so many members here tend to critique, but also the Arabs.