Broken Hearts

[steve jones]

Lads and ladies,

Ever had the joy of a broken heart?

I was thinking today, where or not such an experience might be good or bad for the creativity. And regardless of this effect, to what extent it influences the style of ones creative output.

For instance, Rachmaninov's work often sounds very melancoli to me. Its deep, and somber... listening to it I get the impression that Rachmaninov knew tragedy and heart ache. But Iv never researched his life, and perhaps he wasnt like that at all!

Do we have to know emotional pain to express it in our music?

Do we have to know true joy to express it?

Does a life with many ups and downs result in a creatively fertile mind?

Perhaps it is subjective? Maybe some are more creative when they're repressed and forced to dig deep into their imaginations for 'colour'?

The reason I bring this up is that Iv recently experienced an emotional rollarcoaster the like of which I never thought imaginable. Within the space of four days, I went from being just normal, to ecstatically happy and in love, to depressed and terrified. Its been so crazy! Iv never experienced anything like it, if Im honest.

Now Im wondering if a creative surge should follow these events, or maybe not? Who knows, I guess time will tell. But I was interested to hear your thoughts none the less.

SJ

[zheer]

Lads and ladies,

Ever had the joy of a broken heart?

  Often to the point where it starts bleeding and appears as a blue patch on my chest.

[pianowolfi]

Recently I randomly watched TV for the first time in months. In the German "Mittagsmagazin" they interviewed Martin Stadtfeld, the German pianist. One of the questions to him was "Can such a young man really play Schubert already? You are 26. There are people who say that somebody like you needs to fall unhappily in love for a couple of times before he can play Schubert well." I was lmao . Even for a COUPLE OF TIMES these people wish him to be unhappily in love? As if once would not be enough, or twice lol. I think that this is symptomatic for a certain concept of art, which is currently "in" here. My opinion is that things like these can not be put in a scheme. Or you would have to let the conservatory students take classes in "falling unhappily in love" to make good musicians out of them lol Anyway to your actual question. It can have a creative influence but not necessarily. Sometimes it does, sometimes not. If you have a creative potential it can be stimulated, when it's time for it to come out.

[thalbergmad]

Now Im wondering if a creative surge should follow these events, or maybe not?

It has always been the case in my experience.

The piano is an excellent tool for the outpouring of emotion.

How can you play Schubert unless you have suffered?

Thal

[ahinton]

The piano is an excellent tool for the outpouring of emotion.

In my case, only if writing for it; if playing it, I usually find it an altogether far too excellent tool for the outpouring of unmentionably awful and reprehensible things. Even though I am not a pianist, however, I have long since found the piano to be a most incredibly powerful means of expression (so maybe now a few people who might have wondered why I'm here will know the reason...)

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

in the space of four days?  i suppose you cannot tell us any more.  (did you have a shotgun wedding?)

as i see it - we usually have this blown up image of the 'beloved' at younger ages.  at 26 you are reworking what it is you find attractive, probably.  most likely it is that not everything that looks good, is.  sometimes the most seemingly average looking people are the most kind hearted and loving.  the ones that won't abuse you mentally.  i mean- look at hollywood.  you have these stunning looking people that divorce every year.  it doesn't seem very attractive.

i think pianowolfi is on the right track.  once i decided that i was looking for more than suave antonio banderas types (and yes, i was actaully very entranced by dark brown eyes and dark skin) - i found my husband.  he has the brown eyes - which i still find extremely seductive - but he also doesn't really have the rippling gut and he's whiter than a white towel bleached by the sun (in the winter).  he's very strong - but not exactly who you'd expect to see playing volleyball on the beach.  to me, he's all that and more.  i find him extremely physically attractive because of how he treats me emotionally.  he never purposely wants to hurt me.  i can't imagine 'setting myself up' by marrying someone who would be unpredictable.  i think predictability is very nice.  you know they will stand by you and that they never purposely try to hurt you.  and, when you have disagreements - you can give in once in a while to the other person without feeling unheard or unloved.  it's like you willingly suffer because they never make you suffer that much in the first place. 

[lichristine]

Yeah, but would someone give up diversity in musical expression, to never be hurt again?

[pianistimo]

as i see it, musical expression has nothing to do with a relationship.  there is an element of importance of music for all musicians - but, to me (and this is only my personal feeling) - the spiritual element is above musical.  if you have  a person led by the law of love - they are not focused on 'best' or 'should's' or 'i'll do this because you're doing that.'  they give just because it is the right thing and the blessed thing to do.  you give 99% sometimes and fill in when the other person got up on the wrong side of the bed.  and they do this for you, too.  but, most of the time you both work to see solutions together.  noone works independently.  when a couple finally gets on a roll (usually after a few years of marriage - and i do think there is something to the number 7) they start working as a tandem pair of cyclists or canoists or whatever sport you do with two people (pairs tennis).  you just automatically fill in when the other person cannot.  you don't count each time that you helped.  you just think like you are one person together.

[pianowolfi]

It has always been the case in my experience.

The piano is an excellent tool for the outpouring of emotion.

How can you play Schubert unless you have suffered?

Thal

Sure I agree, Thal. I just don't like if people try to make a method out of it, like in that TV interview.

[counterpoint]

How can you play Schubert unless you have suffered?

You can!

After having played one of Schubert's big Sonatas, you will know, what suffering is 

[thalbergmad]

You can!

After having played one of Schubert's big Sonatas, you will know, what suffering is 

It's the repeats that makes me suffer.

I admit i no longer play them.

Thal

[rc]

The doctor says I have a heart murmur but it isn't dangerous...

I should stay away from Schubert.  For my health.

[pianistimo]

schubert?  he's about as tame as mozart.  how about scriabin?  he'll do you in.

[pianowolfi]

schubert?  he's about as tame as mozart. 

Uh oh, are you serious? Neither Schubert nor Mozart are tame in my book. 

[pianistimo]

if he was so daring...how come he never took his glasses off?

[henrah]

I believe you can still play Schubert and the like by imagining what they must have felt. I don't think you have to feel it to understand it, and by understanding it you can play it with it's intended meaning. Plus, it becomes more like how the composer would've felt it rather than how you have felt it. Isn't that the Schumann way?

[thalbergmad]

if he was so daring...how come he never took his glasses off?

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, because he could not see.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

if he was so daring...how come he never took his glasses off?

Well I agree with Thal. Plus Schubert was a volcano under a decent viennese camouflage I think. An incredible fire.

[thalbergmad]

I am sure i read somewhere that schubert used to wear his glasses to bed, so that if a musical theme should come to him in the night, he would be able to write it down immediately.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

I am sure i read somewhere that schubert used to wear his glasses to bed, so that if a musical theme should come to him in the night, he would be able to write it down immediately.

Thal

Ohh yes that is typical for Schubert.

[pianistimo]

the only thing that made my heart shiver was hearing the 'erlking.'  the rest of it is a lullaby.  am i now officially an sdc member cart blanc?

[pianowolfi]

the only thing that made my heart shiver was hearing the 'erlking.'  the rest of it is a lullaby.  am i now oficially an sdc member cart blanc?

Sorry, I appreciate you very much but you have no clue of Schubert. Listen to the Sonata A-major D second mvt. for instance. Or the c minor sonata D 958. Or the last one, D 960. Just from a different world. Or the unfinished Symphony. Heartbreaking. Just a few very outstanding examples of one of the most authentic and honest geniuses of the world.

[thalbergmad]

The last few bars of the first movement of D894 is suffering beyond belief.

God only knows what he was thinking of when he wrote that.

Heart wrenching.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

The last few bars of the first movement of D894 is suffering beyond belief.

God only knows what he was thinking of when he wrote that.

Heart wrenching.

Thal

Yeah to me this whole movement is like that, very touching. Richter. Volodos. Pires. I like these interpretations. As for the topic errr...still very interesting to me though I would not consider myself to have a broken heart. But the inspiration can have mysterious ways to reach you if you are ready to receive it. Be it a broken or a healing heart, a heart in love or in friendship, a heart in delight or fire or passion. Even in desparation. All that can be inspiring. Some of these sources of inspiration might not be welcome at all. But at least as a musician you have a chance to get out of the dead end on the wings of your art...so to say

[ahinton]

OK - William Barrington-Coupe has provided some sort of apology for a confession (if not a meaningful apology as such) in another place about the Hatto débâcle today, so maybe it's confession time for me, too. Nothing to do with the Hatto business, let me hasten to assure everyone - but after so many remarks about the emotional depths of certain piano sonatas of Schubert, I may as well confess that I simply cannot get to that at all, for all that I've tried to do so over quite a few years. Not even Pollini in the big B flat Sonata gets to me. This is not intended as any kind of value judgement on the music (apart from the fact that I do not feel that Schubert and the piano were great natural bedfellows); simply an admission that most of it just leaves me cold. I cannot help that - it's just a temperamental antipathy, I guess - or at the very least a temperamental lack of empathy. I suspect that Jonathan Powell must think that I probably have a screw loose on that; I'm not about to argue with him. I do have a suspicion, however, that Schubert was just beginning to find himself in his last 18 months or so and I cannot help but wonder if at least part of the reason why he was doing so was that he was starting to write far less music. His influences on Alkan and on Bruckner are fascinating and also essential, I think. Moments in the final two quartets really begin to take off in a way hitherto unprecedented in his work. Another ten years and who knows what he'd have ended up doing?...

Now I imagine that there will be sufficient protest from many quarters here for Nils to consider banning me from the forum...

Best,

Alistair

[pianowolfi]

OK - William Barrington-Coupe has provided some sort of apology for a confession (if not a meaningful apology as such) in another place about the Hatto débâcle today, so maybe it's confession time for me, too. Nothing to do with the Hatto business, let me hasten to assure everyone - but after so many remarks about the emotional depths of certain piano sonatas of Schubert, I may as well confess that I simply cannot get to that at all, for all that I've tried to do so over quite a few years. Not even Pollini in the big B flat Sonata gets to me. This is not intended as any kind of value judgement on the music (apart from the fact that I do not feel that Schubert and the piano were great natural bedfellows); simply an admission that most of it just leaves me cold. I cannot help that - it's just a temperamental antipathy, I guess - or at the very least a temperamental lack of empathy. I suspect that Jonathan Powell must think that I probably have a screw loose on that; I'm not about to argue with him. I do have a suspicion, however, that Schubert was just beginning to find himself in his last 18 months or so and I cannot help but wonder if at least part of the reason why he was doing so was that he was starting to write far less music. His influences on Alkan and on Bruckner are fascinating and also essential, I think. Moments in the final two quartets really begin to take off in a way hitherto unprecedented in his work. Another ten years and who knows what he'd have ended up doing?...

Now I imagine that there will be sufficient protest from many quarters here for Nils to consider banning me from the forum...

Best,

Alistair

OMG now YOU have broken my heart Alistair. How can I get over that? Am I a better musician now that you have broken my heart with confessing that Schubert does not touch you??? Arghh if just the suffering would end somehow...

[thalbergmad]

Not apppreciating Schubert should be a bannable offence.

Thal

[ahinton]

OMG now YOU have broken my heart Alistair. How can I get over that? Am I a better musician now that you have broken my heart with confessing that Schubert does not touch you??? Arghh if just the suffering would end somehow...

I didn not mean to do that. I was just being honest. Perhaps I should have preserved my honesty but also just shut up...

Best,

Alistair

[pianowolfi]

I didn not mean to do that. I was just being honest. Perhaps I should have preserved my honesty but also just shut up...

Best,

Alistair

It's okay Alistair. Now this is an interesting question: Does getting your heart broken by a Schubert Sonata make you a better Schubert interpreter? So playing Schubert would be a sort of breaking-heart-perpetuum-mobile? A self moving way of never ending progress in interpretation?

[pianistimo]

i defer to pianowolfi.   

[pianowolfi]

i defer to pianowolfi.   

LOL Mazzive respect!

[tds]

schubert is much about pure honesty and humility. his music says it so eloquently and sublimely that lengthy words in order to describe his music is not only unnecessary but also intruding. me thinks. tds