Need some french expertize

[nicco]

Right, so im working on translating parts of the cortot version of the Dante sonata, wich is very interesting. Could someone help me with the beginning? I tried running it through various online translators with little luck, although i understand some places there is talk about "Doors of hell" and "Theme of damnation". I wrote down the paragraph im currently working on (hoping there is a helpful french soul out there )


On a deja signale dans l'avant-propos que l'on ne se meprendrait vraisemblablement pas, en accordant a cette impressionnante succession d'octaves imperieusement articulee sur des sautes melodiques dissonantes de quartes et quintes alterees, la valeur d'une representation symbolique des mots inscrits selon Dante sur les portes de l'Enfer: Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate c'est a dire "abandonnez toute esperance, o vous qui franchissez ce seuil"...et qui dans un essai de classification ideologique des arguments generateurs de la composition pourrait etre qualifie de "theme de la damnation". On s'efforcera ici d'evoquer le timbre dominateur des trombones en contractant fortement les doigts sur l'enonaciation de chaque octave. Cependant, et afin de donner plus de force a l'articulation de ce "motto" fatidique, on pourra considerer comme entierement licite l'execution des deux mesures initiales au moyen de la repartitition suivante entre les deux mains: La prolongation des vibrations de la derniere noire sur la mesure suivante etant obtenue par une reprise muette par la main gauche des deux notes de l'octave dont la resonnance va servir de base a l'enonciation des solennelles harmonies subsequentes, formant cadence suspensive. Traiter pareillement la repetition ulterieure de ce motif, en veillant aux changements de doigts sur les memes touches, conformement a l'exemple ci-dessus.

Thanks

[imbetter]

   
"One has already announces in the foreword that one would probably not mistake, while granting imperiously has this impressive succession of octaves articulee on dissonant melody changes of quads and deteriorated fifths, the value of a notation symbolic of the words registered according to Dante on the doors of the Hell: Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch' entrate i.e. “give up any hope, O you who cross this threshold”… and which in an ideological test of classification of the generating arguments of the composition could be describes as “topic of the damnation”. One will endeavour here to evoke the dominating stamp of the trombones by strongly contracting the fingers on the enonaciation of each octave. However, and in order to give more force the articulation of this “motto has” fateful, one will be able to regard as entirely sells by auction the execution of two initial measurements by means of the following repartitition between the two hands: The prolongation of the vibrations of last black to the following measure being obtained by a dumb recovery by the left hand of the two notes of the octave whose resonance will be used as a basis A the stating of the solemn subsequent harmonies, formant gives rhythm suspensive. Pareillement to treat the later repetition of this reason, while taking care of the changes of fingers on the same keys, in accordance with the example above."


my french is a little rusty but I'm pretty sure that's accurate
   

[rach n bach]

LOL!  When I saw the title, I read the third word with "ing" after it, no idea why...   

imbetter's stuff looks right.  Have fun!

[nicco]

LOL!  When I saw the title, I read the third word with "ing" after it, no idea why...   

imbetter's stuff looks right.  Have fun!

He just run it through an online translator. It doesent even make sense.

[jre58591]

He just run it through an online translator. It doesent even make sense.

haha now that i read it, i see that youre right. "deteriorated fifths", hahaha.

[ail]

Hi, this is my best effort at translating it:


We have already pointed out in the foreword that we'd not be really wrong in attributing to this impressive succession of octaves imperiously articulated over melodic dissonant jumps of fourths and altered fifths, the value of a symbolic representation of the words etched, according to Dante, on the Gates of Hell: «Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate» which means 'abandon all hope, thou who cross this door' which, in an essay of ideologic classification of the generating arguments of the composition, could be qualified as 'the theme of damnation'. We will make an effor here to evoque the dominating timbre of the trombones in strongly contracting the fingers on the statement of each octave. However, in order to give more strength to the articulation of this fateful 'motto', we can consider as entirely legitimate the execution of the two first bars in the middle of the following division (?) between both hands: the prolonging of the vibrations of the last black [key?] over the next bar being gotten by a mute reprisal by the left hand of the two notes of the octave whose resonance will serve as the base for the statement of the following solemn harmonies, forming a suspensive cadenza. Do treat in the same fashion the later repetition of this motif, watching the finger changes over the same keys, according to the above example.

Hope it makes any sense to you

Alex

[nicco]

Wow! Thank you Alex! That was most helpful and very interesting!

[richard black]

One correction - 'noire' in French in this context is quarter-note in American English, or crotchet in British English.

[gymnopedist]

another minor edit: "cadence" is cadence as in a chord progression, rather than a cadenza.

[ahinton]

One correction - 'noire' in French in this context is quarter-note in American English, or crotchet in British English.

i.e., a "black" note of sorts...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Mais non, Richard; only the truly intelligent ones...

Best,

Alistair

[invictious]

One correction - 'noire' in French in this context is quarter-note in American English, or crotchet in British English.

Hahahha, I see that correspondence with your last name, Richard.

[nicco]

Just begun on the "Presto agitato assai" part, with the chromatic octaves. Its interesting, i think the commentary refers to a poem by victor hugo? And it says something about noise from trees? Im not quite sure. Some more help would be great

Il est certain vers de la Legende des Siecles de Victor Hugo qui s'appliquent avec une singuliére pertinence au caractere impressionnant de ce theme fondamental. Ils figurent dans une piece intitulée, par une surprenante coincidence, "la vision de Dante", sous la forme suivante: "La rumeur qui sortait de ces ombres améres Ressemblait au bruit sourd que les grands arbres font" Et encore: "On entrevoit l'horreur des lieux inaperçus Et l'abîme au dessous et l'abîme au dessus". La double réaction suspectible d'être déterminée, chez un interpréte d'esprit quelque peu inventif, par le contact du leitmotiv lisztien, l'éxpressive comme l'imaginative, se voit en effet assez exactement définie au travers de ces deux citations d'un poéme par ailleurs tout a fait étranger a la tendance idéologique de la composition musicale, pour dispenser d'un commentaire plus détaillé.

Hope im not asking too much.

[ail]

Hi Nicco,

sorry for the delay, but this last week I've been in France (the irony, heh? this is not my country at all) and I still had to get used to the country. So, let's see if I can make a translation for you:

"There are certain verses of the 'Legend of Centuries' by Victor Hugo that can be applied with a particular pertinence to the impressive character of this fundamental theme. They appear in a piece entitled, in a surprising coincidence, 'the vision of Dante', in the following guise: "the rumour that came out of these bitter shadows was similar to the mute noise that the great trees make" and also "we barely apprehend the horror of the unperceived places and the abyss above and the abyss below".

The double reaction susceptible to being determined, by an interpreter with a somewhat inventive spirir, by the contact of the listian leitmotiv, the expressive as well as the imaginative, can be seen very exactly defined by these two quotes of a poem that is, in any case, completely alien to the ideologic tendency of the musical composition, to save us from a more detailed comment."

Even though I understand the text, I have some difficulty as a whole to get the meaning that the author intended. So, I'm not completely sure I've made a good translation.

Yours,

Alex

[nicco]

Thanks Alex, hope you had fun in France

I just bought a new french - norwegian dictionary, so hopefully i can do some of the translation myself. Maybe i can send you a pm if there are some things i need help with?

[ail]

Sure ok, but I may not be able to help you always. French is not my native language either.

But in whatever I can help, I'll be glad to do so :-)

Alex