bach fuga 2 3 voci

[kimba1055]

hi i been learning the piano for about  four years can i get your comment please

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[cygnusdei]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,23556.0.html

[danny elfboy]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,23556.0.html

What this thread has anything to do with Kimba recording?
The concept of fake piano playing is nonsense ... I mean it is nonsense they way others understood it. What Zheer teacher meant was a concept of efficient body use, listening to the outcome of what you're playing rather than projecting the sound of the recordings you've heard which will lead to automatic projection of uncorrect and tensful motions too

[danny elfboy]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,23556.0.html

By the way if that was meant to say that Kimba really faked his playing by not playing the piece himself then you are not probably aware of cam lags between video and sound ... yet they are very common

[danny elfboy]

Kimba I like your video
First of all you emphasized each voice independently and the result is a well articulated but omogeneous sound

On the second you have a very good technique
You never curl your fingers to the point of joint bending and all joint are aligned
Movement are accurate and small and there's no waste of energy .. they're very economical
Your wrist alignment is remarkable and so is the arch of the forearm
The hand moves with precision on the next portion on the keyboard and is not carriedalong the keyboard by the finger. You also "breath" with the piece and take advantage of muscle impulses in your playing.
The wrist is loose and instead and you never bend the wrist
Instead of bending you reach for the black keys by letting the third fingers touch the fallboard and by bending the forearm rather than the finger when you play on the middle register.
The thumb is kept out of the keybord and the way of the other fingers most of the time and you play on the its tip. The other fingers play precisely with small movements and on the fleshy part

You are one a rare example of effortless and tensioless technique ... can't find a single flaw with your motions. Not once you broke the forearm arch or collpased the wrist, or locked the wrist, or curled the fingers or bent the wrist ... there's no accumulation of tension and you contract and de-contract with a very precise timing

Kudos to you, you're an example to emulate!

[jlh]

By the way if that was meant to say that Kimba really faked his playing by not playing the piece himself then you are not probably aware of cam lags between video and sound ... yet they are very common

I know from experience that Youtube is notorious for this type of desynchronization between video and audio.

[cygnusdei]

I'm aware of audio/video sync issues. That's the first thing that came to mind when I first saw the video - I thought damn this is really bad sync. But upon closer scrutiny, even accounting for time delays, the video and audio just don't match. The incongruity is almost as bad as playing on a transposed keyboard. Eeek....

[danny elfboy]

I'm aware of audio/video sync issues. That's the first thing that came to mind when I first saw the video - I thought damn this is really bad sync. But upon closer scrutiny, even accounting for time delays, the video and audio just don't match. The incongruity is almost as bad as playing on a transposed keyboard. Eeek....

He is not faking it: the motions are correct
Also he have such a good technique that wouldn't need to fake such a piece
I'm pretty that accounting for time delays is not that easy as it may seems
I have seen that before
Saw a video with bad sync, tried to image it without the delays and it didn't seem to fit then I was provided a version with the sync adjusted and there ... it fitted

[kimba1055]

I'm aware of audio/video sync issues. That's the first thing that came to mind when I first saw the video - I thought damn this is really bad sync. But upon closer scrutiny, even accounting for time delays, the video and audio just don't match. The incongruity is almost as bad as playing on a transposed keyboard. Eeek....

i'm g to rec one more time today .

[pianistimo]

imo, kimba, you will play better sitting a bit lower.  also, you do have somewhat of relaxed hand - but there is tension in the 'tips' of the fingers.  it's hard to explain.  i played just like you before my last teacher - and now - i 'massage' the keys more.  it's more like you are coaxing them instead of commanding them.  it gives the fugue a 'choral' feel.  you hear the connections of the voice between 'breaths.'

don't play the entire line of each voice at the same dynamic.  after it comes in - suddenly lower it a bit.  then, add next voice at a similar start dynamic (lowering the others - so that you can hear that voice's entrance).  and so forth.  you'll love the effect!  susan

[danny elfboy]

imo, kimba, you will play better sitting a bit lower.

I don't agree
His forearm arch is already perfect
The wrist is perfectly aligned with the forearm and the first phalanges
In other words he seems already to be sitting at the height that allow the best mechanism of playing and best alignment. Loweing the bench would quickly destroy the alignment bringin the wrist lower than the knucles and collapsing the arch. IMO

[pianistimo]

if you watch really closely, he scoots forward a couple of times.  this shows he is tilting forward somehow.  he doesn't look as secure on the bench as he could be.  perhaps i just prefer just a little bit lower to gain security in seating and also, to sit back further.  less of a closeness to the piano with 90 degree angled arms and more of a back more - and longer fluid look. 

now, i don't have a sure opinion on this - but what i've noticed is that some people like pogorelich seem to allow the length or stretch of their long arms to allow the muscles/tendons/ligaments to work more smoothly more at 120-140 degree arm.  i could be wrong - but it's what works for me, too, now.

also, what it does is allow access for the elbows/arms, if necessary, to cross slightly in front of the stomach - whereas in this position - he is limited by his own elbows to sides.

[danny elfboy]

if you watch really closely, he scoots forward a couple of times.  this shows he is tilting forward somehow.  he doesn't look as secure on the bench as he could be.  perhaps i just prefer just a little bit lower to gain security in seating and also, to sit back further.  less of a closeness to the piano with 90 degree angled arms and more of a back more - and longer fluid look.

I agree about distance
Too many people definitely sit too close to the keyboard
As I said this cause a problem with moving the hands backwards when they need to play close to the edge. Since the elbows are locked at the side it doesn't come natural to just move the hands backwards and by compensation one either curl the fingers a lot (bent joint) or bend the wrist sideway

I'm still not sure about the height, if he needs to lower it then it is no more than 1/2 inch even though is hard to tell because of the camera angle 

[pianistimo]

we're coming to a consensus on this.  try sitting 1/2 inch lower and sitting back a bit, kimba, and see what happens?!  no doubt that there's some bach genius in kimba - it just has to have some freedom to move now.

i don't know why - but, if it were me - i'd try sitting him 2" and then 1"  and then 1/2 " lower  to just compare each.  sometimes students 'lean over' the keyboard and you can't see what's going on with the shoulders and neck.  they should be straight up (or leaning back but fully stretched).  it saves your back later!

[cygnusdei]

i'm g to rec one more time today .

Hopefully you will have resolved the sync issues. Are you going to play the prelude as well? That's the fun part 

[jlh]

I'm aware of audio/video sync issues. That's the first thing that came to mind when I first saw the video - I thought damn this is really bad sync. But upon closer scrutiny, even accounting for time delays, the video and audio just don't match. The incongruity is almost as bad as playing on a transposed keyboard. Eeek....

Youtube doesn't just desynchronize some videos... it actually plays the video too fast for the audio, so even if it's synch'd at the beginning (as this one is),  it will get progressively desynch'd as the video plays.  That's why so far my videos are only on Google and not Youtube ... I haven't yet been able to get a video to work right on Youtube.

[kimba1055]

Hopefully you will have resolved the sync issues. Are you going to play the prelude as well? That's the fun part 

better

[kimba1055]

Hopefully you will have resolved the sync issues. Are you going to play the prelude as well? That's the fun part 

i will, i learn the prelude before the fugue

[kimba1055]

Kimba I like your video
First of all you emphasized each voice independently and the result is a well articulated but omogeneous sound

On the second you have a very good technique
You never curl your fingers to the point of joint bending and all joint are aligned
Movement are accurate and small and there's no waste of energy .. they're very economical
Your wrist alignment is remarkable and so is the arch of the forearm
The hand moves with precision on the next portion on the keyboard and is not carriedalong the keyboard by the finger. You also "breath" with the piece and take advantage of muscle impulses in your playing.
The wrist is loose and instead and you never bend the wrist
Instead of bending you reach for the black keys by letting the third fingers touch the fallboard and by bending the forearm rather than the finger when you play on the middle register.
The thumb is kept out of the keybord and the way of the other fingers most of the time and you play on the its tip. The other fingers play precisely with small movements and on the fleshy part

You are one a rare example of effortless and tensioless technique ... can't find a single flaw with your motions. Not once you broke the forearm arch or collpased the wrist, or locked the wrist, or curled the fingers or bent the wrist ... there's no accumulation of tension and you contract and de-contract with a very precise timing

Kudos to you, you're an example to emulate!

thanx you for your comment it really make me happy i practice like 4 hour a day sometime more becouse i start it a little late 4 year ago i'm 32 i like to be real good by 40
my teacher keep pushing me to play bach he said that bach is the fundation of a good playing so i'm not learning the piece i really want to learn becouse i want to do what my mentor is asking me to do.[sorry for my english ]is not perfet but i'm doing my best ]

[danny elfboy]

thanx you for your comment it really make me happy i practice like 4 hour a day sometime more becouse i start it a little late 4 year ago i'm 32 i like to be real good by 40
my teacher keep pushing me to play bach he said that bach is the fundation of a good playing so i'm not learning the piece i really want to learn becouse i want to do what my mentor is asking me to do.[sorry for my english ]is not perfet but i'm doing my best ]

You can't deny that Bach is beautiful though ... and you play it well
If I were you teacher I would expose you to more different styles as possible or at least would have you learning 1 baroque, 1 romantic, 1 impressionist, 1 modern piece at a time ... but Bach is indeed a miracle for technique even more than Chopin
I have seen even late beginners make huge jump in quality technically once they began learning Bach Inventions.