Grante - EXPOSED cheating caught on cam

[opus10no2]

PLEASE remember when performing to check everywhere around you for camera lenses!

Let Grante be the MARTyr for this cause, and let this crime never be commited again!

[mephisto]

Are all of the thirds supposed to be played by the left hand?

[opus10no2]

Pretty much, yes.

It defeats the point of the etude.

[kriskicksass]

When it comes to etudes, I believe that your purpose in playing the etude should determine whether or not you can "cheat." If you're playing the etude because it's beautiful music that you wish you perform, then you should be able to do whatever you want to make yourself most comfortable and most able to express the music in the way you desire. If you're playing the etude for your own personal technical development and not planning on performing it, you should play it with its original difficulties intact, otherwise you're defeating the purpose.

When it comes to non-etude music, my opinions are mixed. I recently bought a DVD of a lecture by Malcolm Bilson in which he argues that composers write configurations that are "dangerous" because it adds to musical content when there's a chance of failure on part of the performer. Generally I think that's true, so "cheating" is still wrong. However, when you come to music that isn't technically difficult but has wide intervals that you cannot take with one hand, like Gershwin's 2nd Prelude - where Gershwin has specifically marked that no intervals be broken or chords be rolled - cheating is fine because it is presenting the music in a manner that is closer to the composer's original intentions.

[nicco]

Pretty much, yes.

It defeats the point of the etude.

Oh come on, he plays long passages in thirds with the left hand, wich proves he has control. Im sure if he wanted he could have used wichever hand, but maybe helping with the right in some places gives a bit more secure feeling, and possibly better sound.

[pies]

Who cares, boring piece

[danny elfboy]

I don't want to be mean but just frank: your "ocean etude" is at the same level of cheating comme. It can barely be recognized and no one can say whether you're playing all the notes.
Certainly you've thrown dynamic, expression, colour, tone out of the windows with that.
And you coordination doesn't look good at all, you look strained and use awkward motions.

You're like not the right person to accuse someone else of this kind of cheating

[franzliszt2]

hahaha well said danny.

[franzliszt2]

hahaha just watched the vid of opus10no2. hahahahahahaha you can't even play the piece at all. You paly it in triplets, the most amaturish mistake of ALL time, it's the sort of mistake a 5 year old monkey would make. Fair enough you may be taking the piss, but to play it in triplets is just funny because it's so bad hahahahahahaha

[avetma]

You just don't know how to listen it when it's fast enough!

[etudes]

I will bet that he used 2 hands for the LH etudes in studio!     

[rob47]

hahaha just watched the vid of opus10no2. hahahahahahaha you can't even play the piece at all. You paly it in triplets, the most amaturish mistake of ALL time, it's the sort of mistake a 5 year old monkey would make. Fair enough you may be taking the piss, but to play it in triplets is just funny because it's so bad hahahahahahaha

What is the point of this? For someone who goes to a conservatory and has so much to offer you laugh at and put down a performance of someone who has been playing for a tiny fraction of the time you have. Instead of offering this enthusiastic amateur advice (maybe on how to correct his "amateurish mistake" of playing in triplets) you just discourage him.  Give good advice instead next time.

Gavrilov > You

[mephisto]

Tre rob!

He had only played for a year when that was recorded, and it was kind of a joke too. Based on his improvisations he is a talented man.

[virtuosic1]

Are all of the thirds supposed to be played by the left hand?

As an interesting side note, a number of years ago, while his long time pianist busy recording his own solo project, I filled in as Rahsaan Roland Kirk's pianist for several concerts. Although Roland's style was far closer to John Coltrane and Sonny Rollins than Charlie Parker, Kirk knew many Parker solos and could play them fluently. One day, at a rehersal, he heard me playing "Donna Lee" and when he finished assembling one of his horns, joined me mid-stream. We played on it for awhile and then he started to pick up the tempo, faster and faster. He decided that he wanted to perform Donna Lee that evening and asked me how fast I could play it (the head and all the solos from the most famous recorded version we both happened to know). I told him, "as fast as you'd like to take it".

He started to play it at "Supersax"-like tempo (the 5-piece sax section that blazes all the Parker heads and solos). I couldn't keep up, the problem being that I would have needed a 10 fingered hand to play at the piano, what is possible at the sax, all 5 fingers of BOTH hands more or less FIXED spatially at the keys of the sax. The solo would have required too much lateral motion from one hand on the piano to make it feasible at the tempo Kirk wanted to play it. So I told him to give me about an hour with it, and we'll meet up at his room later on and run it down.

I worked the music out at the piano so that literally, I was using a 10-fingered "hand", same as a sax player does, both hands sharing the duty of playing the line as one unit, sometimes the hands positioned side by side, sometimes hands crossing over (like on a 15 note ascending run), sometimes even one hand offset over the other. Once I worked out the 2 hand fingering, I was ready to duplicate the line and match Kirk's sax line perfectly when we got together later in the day, phrasing intact as well.

We performed it that night as a duet and it smoked.

Sometimes you must resort to unconventionality. Although playable on the sax, it was unplayable at quarter = 230+ on the piano. The solution was a "10-fingered" hand in this case.

[Mozartian]

Yeah, psht, cheating- if you get the results you want, hey! Can't diss it.

I mean, I was working with Martha Argerich on a recording of the Chopin etudes recently- we decided that the best way to handle the octaves etude would be for me to play the top notes and her to handle the rest. Really came out well (DC plans to release the CD later this year). It's kinda sad for me though, because obviously I don't get any credit for helping her out, and I did work really hard to match her tone. 

As my good friend Vlady A always says- "play.. the way it should sound.. not the way it should look.. and etudes are stupid anyway".

[danny elfboy]

Yeah, psht, cheating- if you get the results you want, hey! Can't diss it.

I mean, I was working with Martha Argerich on a recording of the Chopin etudes recently- we decided that the best way to handle the octaves etude would be for me to play the top notes and her to handle the rest. Really came out well (DC plans to release the CD later this year). It's kinda sad for me though, because obviously I don't get any credit for helping her out, and I did work really hard to match her tone. 

As my good friend Vlady A always says- "play.. the way it should sound.. not the way it should look.. and etudes are stupid anyway".

but ... ROTFL !!!!!

[franzliszt2]

hahahaha come on, read his posts, you'd think he was a technical God the way he talks, but come on, look at what he says! All this mechanique rubbish, you can see he has none, becasue piano playing is not about that. Fingers don't have strengthm the hand does, and that only has a little. Look at how many times he mentions the arm. The arm is the thing that plays the piano, the fingers are just the slaves.

As for the triplets, just count! 1234 and all will be fine. Accent the melody, pedal with the harmony, and shape the melody, Bob's your uncle, and you have a decent opus25no12. Play it as fast as you desire, just keep the music.

[opus10no2]

I don't want to be mean but just frank: your "ocean etude" is at the same level of cheating comme. It can barely be recognized and no one can say whether you're playing all the notes.
Certainly you've thrown dynamic, expression, colour, tone out of the windows with that.
And you coordination doesn't look good at all, you look strained and use awkward motions.

You're like not the right person to accuse someone else of this kind of cheating

That was hardly a serious attempt, it was a CG attempt.

Plus, it doesn't excuse what Grante is doing here in a serious LIVE performance.

Thanks rob and mpeh, you're good guys 
I'll be the firsdt to admit I'm not near the level of Grante, but I can still criticise this.

I sound like a technical 'GOD' because I firmly believe everything I say, and it has put me in good stead thus far.

A beginner can have better knowledge about playing the piano than someone very experienced with flawed ideas.

As for the triplets, just count! 1234 and all will be fine. Accent the melody, pedal with the harmony, and shape the melody, Bob's your uncle, and you have a decent opus25no12. Play it as fast as you desire, just keep the music.

I agree, that's the way to play the etude!

[pianistimo]

usually the panel of judges can hear the mistakes of fingering and don't need to look to see.  some places just sound less flowing or clear.  you compare it to how it sounds when using the best fingering (which i think has to do with hand size - sometimes) for yourself.  if the judges had to use the video cam - it would show they couldn't tell the difference.  if they couldn't tell the difference - they shouldn't knock off points.

don't mean to sound smart - but i think opus10no2 is right - because despite how he plays without stopping - it sounds stilted in places.  it doesn't give you the feeling of 'the whole' but -rather - 'sections.'  he starts each section with the same loud dynamic.  he is rather monotonous.  but, such a difficult piece.  so i'm not saying that i could play this without a lot of practice - any better. 

[invictious]

Hmmm, I suppose it depends here.
I don't know why anyone would do this, but if the sole point was to play the music, then of course it doesn't matter, just so long it sounds good.
If you are really treating it as an etude, then you really should not cheat.


He is not teaching anyone, and we don't know his intents, so I suppose we are not in position to judge. Either way, I don't like this piece, pretty boring.

[opus10no2]

Who cares, boring piece

Either way, I don't like this piece, pretty boring.

I'm surprised, I think the piece is really beautiful, this is just not a particularly great performance.

At the right speed, the 3rds should sound like cascading crystals in the higher registers, one of the most beautiful sounding figurations in piano playing.

I don't know how you can criticise Chopin or Godowsky here, noone else has ever written studies in 3rds that are so technically thorough and musically beautiful.

[invictious]

Well i have only heard two recordings of the piece, and this just happened to be another bland performance.

Either way, i am still waiting for a beautiful performance of this piece.