Another School shooting spree in the US

[pianolearner]

Guns don't kill, people do...

[counterpoint]

but if people didn't have guns, they couldn't 

[living_stradivarius]

Sad.

[pianistimo]

are you saying they were in the wrong place at the wrong time?  well, thankfully, some students did decide to skip school that day because of the inclement weather.  one never knows! 

all i can say is that if it isn't one thing, it's another.  i've been to the emergency room enough times to know that if it can happen - it will happen.  may as well keep the guns locked up if you have them.  the 14-18 year olds might just experiment. don't know what to say about the virginia tech man.  what if he's 40?  this is like warning teenagers about drunk drivers - only to have more teenagers killed by 30-40 something drunk drivers.  who are we warning?

now, the jokes on the radio are 'woops, i forgot to take my meds.'  can taking or not taking medicine really do that to a person? 

32 now dead.  32.  why did kill anyone?  at least he had the decency to do himself in.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600533.html?hpid=topnews

[living_stradivarius]

32 now dead.  32.  why did kill anyone?  at least he had the decency to do himself in.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600533.html?hpid=topnews

There is no decency in this kind of cowardice.

[pianolearner]

32 now dead.  32.  why did kill anyone?  at least he had the decency to do himself in.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600533.html?hpid=topnews

If he was decent he would have done himself first.

[prometheus]

Like I said in the gun discussions; Force multiplier.

Must have used a semi-automatic or automatic weapon. So war rifles instead of hunting rifles.


No European can now imagine that there will not come national weapon restriction.

[thalbergmad]

are you saying they were in the wrong place at the wrong time?  well, thankfully, some students did decide to skip school that day because of the inclement weather.  one never knows! 

all i can say is that if it isn't one thing, it's another.  i've been to the emergency room enough times to know that if it can happen - it will happen.  may as well keep the guns locked up if you have them.  the 14-18 year olds might just experiment. don't know what to say about the virginia tech man.  what if he's 40?  this is like warning teenagers about drunk drivers - only to have more teenagers killed by 30-40 something drunk drivers.  who are we warning?

now, the jokes on the radio are 'woops, i forgot to take my meds.'  can taking or not taking medicine really do that to a person? 

32 now dead.  32.  why did kill anyone?  at least he had the decency to do himself in.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600533.html?hpid=topnews

Where was your compassionate loving God when this happened?

Thal

[opus10no2]

God made it happen 

[prometheus]

Where was your compassionate loving God when this happened?

Thal

One could argue this is caused by free will. The question is: "Where is god's compassion when humans die because of flaws in her creation; earthquakes, malaria, HIV, cancer, etc".

[opus10no2]

Everyone does what they do because of a combination of their nature and their nurture, before there was ever nurture - nature existed, and free will is an illusion.
Personally, I find comfort in inevitability.

Is the concept that 'god' planted an unpredictable seed? a purposely 'randomly' flawed design?

[counterpoint]

I find comfort in inevitability.

Why do you think, it is inevitable, that people are murdered by others?
OIn my opinion, there's always a reason, but there's no reason, that forces someone to murder others.

[opus10no2]

There's always a reason, but without any intervention - the universe is a ball in motion - set on an inevitable course.

If it is this way by design, we have noone to ask but the designer for it's purpose.

[cziffra]

I only wish the shooter had lived, so he could have been brutally murdered when he got into jail.

[pianistimo]

God didn't stop cain from murdering abel.  why?  that was the first time.  perhaps it didn't start there.  perhaps it started with adam and eve choosing the wrong tree.  IF they had chosen the tree of life instead of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - there wouldn't have been any death!  as it is now - everyone will die sometime.  whether you die of drowning, murder, old age, young age, aids, HIV - you're going to die.  opus10no2 is right.  it's inevitable.  may as well come to terms with it.  i don't think taking other people with you is the way to go.  it's rather selfish.  it's saying - 'if i die, you all die.'  that is making a moral choice for someone else - and basically ruining the family and relatives hope for a secure future or hey, even the college bill.  what if some of these people still have to pay their tuition (the parents) - ?  i should hope the college remunerates them for tuition and considers 1/2 of the burial costs at least - as that would be terrible, if not, to take the burden for something that none of these people should have to.

[counterpoint]

There's always a reason, but without any intervention - the universe is a ball in motion - set on an inevitable course.

If it is this way by design, we have noone to ask but the designer for it's purpose.

Of course there are and there should be interventions. I agree, that there is not much help by a supposed god, but there are the people, that live with the emotional disturbed persons. If they would care more before someone is going out of control, then many crimes could be prevented.

[pianistimo]

the way they care is getting treated by psychiatrists and medicine. 

there are also christian counselors that combine psychology with guided personal group therapy and allow the teen or adult to talk and then give guidance that would be helpful from someone who's had similar experiences and come out the 'other end.'  it's probaby worth the time and effort to get both whatever medications help - and then also treat what is the root cause of the problem.  sometimes it is not being understood or something that is treatable by kindness.  which, btw, is an attribute of God.  patience, kindness, longsufferring.  this world is full of shortness, tempers, and impatience.  perhaps people truly need what God has.  a peaceful mind and nature.  if they only knew that God was FOR them and wants to gather them up like chicks under a hen.  i think He waits for each of us to ask Him to be part of our lives.

[thalbergmad]

i think He waits for each of us to ask Him to be part of our lives.

Perhaps some of the poor sods today will get to ask him.

Thal

[pianistimo]

well, if you believe that we're all ressurrected again - the joke is on the gunman.  he believed he could take away these people permanently from life.  the truth of the matter, according to the bible, is that God can do pretty much anything - including ressurrecting us from the dead.  if you have hope that you will see a family member again - it's just a little 'sleep' we're talking about.  and, if all our lifetimes are 'as grass that withers' - it won't be long until we're reunited.

i was fairly shocked at my husband's father's funeral.  it was one big party.  they had the service upstairs - fairly dignified and then went downstairs and partied.  drinks, food, cake.  i mean - these people have come to terms with death.  at first it was too much for me - - but then, because of them - i got in the festive spirit.  i thought - if you believe the bible - death is overcome by Jesus ressurrection.  so there's not much to be sad about.  the  next life is better.  i mean - #1 you get a new body  #2 if you are blind, disabled, sick - your next body is a better model  #3 there will be more interesting work than the usual drugery.  #4 you get a mansion to live in.  #5 pleasures evermore (that's in the bible - i don't know exactly what they are...but if God made what we have now - you can trust Him on that one).  #6 peace on earth and peace in the future with God wherever He resides.  #7 no worries.

[jre58591]

but if people didn't have guns, they couldn't 

yes they could. and remember, guns are nothing without bullets. so, guns dont kill people, bullets do, unless youve got one big gun to piston whip someone with.

Must have used a semi-automatic or automatic weapon. So war rifles instead of hunting rifles.

he actually only had 2 9 millimeter handguns.

[living_stradivarius]

#7 no worries.

Tell that to the victims' families.

[opus10no2]

God didn't stop cain from murdering abel.  why?  that was the first time.  perhaps it didn't start there.  perhaps it started with adam and eve choosing the wrong tree.  IF they had chosen the tree of life instead of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - there wouldn't have been any death! 

And how was this anything but inevitable?

'Choice' and 'free will' are illusions.
While our brains are developed with the ability to think, and not rely purely on 'instinct' - our reactions are as inevitable and the actions that cause those reactions, and therefore - everything everyone does is inevitable, but ultimately unpredictable by human science.

The fundamental thing people don't see about the universe and life - is that there is no such thing as an action - everything is a reaction, in a way.
That is, everything is a reaction, apart from the first ACTION which set the universe into motion, and this action is the biggest mystery of life.

[pianowolfi]

I have no arguments. I am just sad.

[thalbergmad]

God can do pretty much anything - including ressurrecting us from the dead. 

He should have saved them then.

[etudes]

read pianistimo  about god is even worse than the shooting spree.......I really hope that you (pianistimo ) stop to mention it sooner or later!

[prometheus]

he actually only had 2 9 millimeter handguns.

Yes I heard and I am somewhat suprised about this. Now I am no gun expert, but I think you need to be a skilled shooter to be able to kill so many.


What I also don't understand is why he wasn't attacked by people. Well, maybe it was tried. But surely you can stop one guy with two handguns from killing so many in the middle of a very crowded place. Just knock him to the ground and take his guns from him. Or knock him down when he was to reload.

[usahockey]

What I also don't understand is why he wasn't attacked by people. Well, maybe it was tried. But surely you can stop one guy with two handguns from killing so many in the middle of a very crowded place. Just knock him to the ground and take his guns from him. Or knock him down when he was to reload.

Easy for you to say, as you were not there at the time.  Almost anyone would be lying if they said they would do something other than run, or hide, in this kind of situation.

[mephisto]

One could argue this is caused by free will. The question is: "Where is god's compassion when humans die because of flaws in her creation; earthquakes, malaria, HIV, cancer, etc".

Why are you so certain that god is female?

[prometheus]

I am quite certain that god does not exist. I don't say that god is female. It is just the case that we usually use 'she' for concepts similar to god. Doesn't mean they are female. It's just the gender-thing in language.

Actually, religious people claim that god has a gender and that she is male.

[living_stradivarius]

Why are you so certain that god is female?

he's got boobs?

[pianistimo]

ok.  pretend you are a parent (if you aren't already) and that you have children who go to school or off to someplace where you are not constantly present.  they have not called you on the cell phone to ask your advice - and either accidentally or on purpose kill someone else.  is it your fault?  some would say - yes, because the parent is ultimately responsible for a child under 18.  on the other hand, what if the parents are very responsible and give the child pretty much everything they need emotionally, physically, and even spiritually.  what if the child makes the decision anyways, to kill?  is it the parents fault?

so, i don't see how it is God's fault when people murder others.  God even made sure that his law covered this problem.  'thou shalt not murder.'  i don't think God thought it was out of the question that some people would not be able to control their anger.  and, he was quite calm in talking to cain about being able to 'read' his face - and tell him that his sacrifice would also be appreciated - but that he should not compare himself to others.

now, if a person has jealousy or anger - i don't think this indicates that God made things inevitable.  in fact, this is proof for free will.  we are in charge of our own emotions.  but, God made provision for our own weaknesses by allowing us access to the Holy Spirit - which is the Spirit of God.  it's not fleshly and weak with fleshly desires and purposes - but 'holy' and from God himself.  (genderless, truly , but the only way he can reveal Himself to us now - because we are in genders and would not understand how He could pass on 'seed' as he made more of Himself - without a female - when he made adam from the dust of the ground).

so as i see it, we have a multitude of options.  to be angry and not sin.  to be angry and sin.  or, to take so much medication you have no strong feelings at all.  or, to suddenly stop taking these medications and have a nervous breakdown (some of these meds are high powered).  and/or, to rely on spiritual help (either demonic or from God).  i think demons thrive on emotions of anger, rage, and hatred.

as i see it - when a person is truly troubled by a person or a problem - they should pray to God for help in showing mercy and kindness to whomever is the 'problem.'  abraham did this when lot wanted to choose the best land.  he probably prayed for direction from God - and then, in his mind - decided to give lot the best of the land and apparent water.  this assuaged lot and they remained friends for the sacrifice that abraham mentally started with by prayer.  then, for that and many other things, God blessed abraham and even his future generations.  for obedience to a 'law of love.'  thinking of someone else first.

[ahinton]

i don't see how it is God's fault when people murder others.

Nor do I - so why MUST you bring Him into another long discouse about something that we clearly agree that He did not do?

You're at it again, Susan - Godding...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

only when asked by thal - where was God?  he's always there.  he doesn't always get us out of our own predicaments.  otherwise, what would we need a police force for?  i think the laws of our government cannot always prevent crimes of a large nature.  but, God did not invent automatic rifles.  we did.  how can it be God's fault.  alistair, i'm glad we agree.

we have to make the best of our lives now, i guess, because none of us knows when our time is up.

[pianolearner]

Nor do I - so why MUST you bring Him into another long discouse about something that we clearly agree that He did not do?

You're at it again, Susan - Godding...

Best,

Alistair

Susan AKA pianistimo was not the 1st person to mention GOD in this thread. But like many other threads in this forum, she simply responds to someone else who mentions GOD but she gets the blame for derailing a thread. It get's quite boring and hence the reason I rarely post here anymore. Watch the usual suspects respond to her posts about GOD....

[pianolearner]

only when asked by thal - where was God?

EXACTLY!!

[living_stradivarius]

Where was your compassionate loving God when this happened?

Thal

Pianistimo's conception of God is much different from the version you mention. If you do want to debate about God, I suggest staying away from mis-representing her view and confronting her beliefs head-on.

[thalbergmad]

Susan AKA pianistimo was not the 1st person to mention GOD in this thread. But like many other threads in this forum, she simply responds to someone else who mentions GOD but she gets the blame for derailing a thread. It get's quite boring and hence the reason I rarely post here anymore. Watch the usual suspects respond to her posts about GOD....

Indeed it was me on this occasion, but many times she has started with no prompting.

Thal

[pianistimo]

mum's the word.      

thal keeps attempting to understand God better by going to the isle of st. kilda.  yes.  this is a unique perspective.  but, i would not judge him harshly for it.  communing with birds.  just as elspeth does with bears. 

just recently there was a lecture here in pa about blue birds.  perhaps this will get my mind to thinking about something other than the bible.  and, yet - even blue birds remind me of God.  it's just a quirk i have.

i wish to change the subject.  my piano has a huge crack in the soundboard.  it made me want to shoot the piano tuner for not telling me BEFORE he tuned the piano.  and, yet - the piano has stayed in tune so far.  now, what should i do?  should i use wood glue?  should i have put furniture polish on the sound board to keep it a little moist?  perhaps more humidity in the room - before shoving it this way and that to vaccum behind it?  in any case - the crack is feta comple.  now, i must deal with the result.  the crack is less than 1 mm. wide - but is approx. 1 1/2 feet in length (and seems to have grown since last week).  i check it daily.  do you think it qualifies for a true crack?  perhaps i can paint over it and still sell the piano.  then, maybe i would be shot?  who should be shot?  is there ever a good reason to shoot a person? 

[thalbergmad]

I suggest staying away from mis-representing her view and confronting her beliefs head-on.

Good suggestion, which i have duly noted.

Thal

[pianistimo]

it wasn't cracked before.  HELP!  i am becoming despondent.

[maul]

Pianistimo, if you only spent as much time at your piano as you did typing up sh*t people will never read, you might actually excel beyond Leila Fletcher Book 3. Tis vague, but possible.

[johnny-boy]

Yes I heard and I am somewhat suprised about this. Now I am no gun expert, but I think you need to be a skilled shooter to be able to kill so many.


What I also don't understand is why he wasn't attacked by people. Well, maybe it was tried. But surely you can stop one guy with two handguns from killing so many in the middle of a very crowded place. Just knock him to the ground and take his guns from him. Or knock him down when he was to reload.

I wouldn't give him any credit for being a skilled shooter. Any dimwit can squeeze a trigger.

What makes people freeze in these situations? It’s known as fear. How else could a handful of Germans control so many Jews in concentration camps?

John

[pianistimo]

and dear maul, where are your postings in the audition room?

[prometheus]

What makes people freeze in these situations? It’s known as fear. How else could a handful of Germans control so many Jews in concentration camps?

John

I don't understand that either. And how could they get Jewish people from all around Europe, put them in concentration camps in the first place? And yes, they all knew those people would get murdered.

It's not just fear. It's also the idea that someone else will do it. Humans aren't rational creatures.

[johnny-boy]

Your last line somes it up Promey.

John

[maul]

and dear maul, where are your postings in the audition room?

I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else here as I've never mentioned anything about my skills, and I don't intend to. However, now that you've put the thought into my mind much as religion was forced into yours at birth, I might consider putting some stuff up. In the meantime, please continue with the Leila Fletcher and Spinning Song.

[living_stradivarius]

I don't understand that either. And how could they get Jewish people from all around Europe, put them in concentration camps in the first place? And yes, they all knew those people would get murdered.

It's not just fear. It's also the idea that someone else will do it. Humans aren't rational creatures.

It just so happened:

jpost.com staff and ap, THE JERUSALEM POST Apr. 17, 2007

As Jews worldwide honored on Monday the memory of those who were murdered in the Holocaust, a 76-year-old survivor sacrificed his life to save his students in Monday's shooting at Virginia Tech College that left 33 dead and over two dozen wounded.

Professor Liviu Librescu, 76, threw himself in front of the shooter when the man attempted to enter his classroom. The Israeli mechanics and engineering lecturer was shot to death, "but all the students lived - because of him," Virginia Tech student Asael Arad - also an Israeli - told Army Radio.

Several of Librescu's other students sent e-mails to his wife, Marlena, telling of how he had blocked the gunman's way and saved their lives, said Librescu's son, Joe.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Joe Librescu said in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

Librescu was respected in his field, his son said.

"His work was his life, in a sense," said Joe. "That was a good place for him to practice his research."

The couple immigrated to Israel from Romania in 1978. They then moved to Virginia in 1986 for his sabbatical and had stayed since then, Joe told Army Radio.

The gunman was later identified on Tuesday afternoon as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a South Korean citizen who was studying legally in the United States as an English major at Virginia Tech.

Earlier, Virginia Tech's president said the gunman in the second of two campus attacks was a student at the university. He also defended the school's delay in warning students about what became the deadliest shooting rampage in US history.

Though university president Charles Steger did not explicitly say the student, who he identified as an Asian male, was also the gunman in the first shooting, he said he did not believe there was another shooter. The gunman struck down two people at a dormitory Monday before killing 30 more people in a campus building and finally killing himself with a shot to his head.

"We do know that he was an Asian male - this is the second incident - an Asian man who was a resident in one of our dormitories," said Steger in an interview with CNN, confirming for the first time that the killer was a student.

Some students said their first warning came more than two hours after the first shooting, in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m. By then the second shooting had begun.

"I think the university has blood on their hands because of their lack of action after the first incident," said Billy Bason, 18, who lives on the seventh floor of West Ambler Johnston, a high-rise coed dormitory where the shooting began and two people died.

Steger said the university was trying to notify students who were already on-campus, not those who were commuting in.

"We warned the students that we thought were immediately impacted," he told CNN. "We felt that confining them to the classroom was how to keep them safest."

He said investigators did not know there was a shooter loose on campus in the interval between the two shootings because the first could have been a murder-suicide.

Two students told NBC television's "Today" show they were unaware of the dorm shooting when they reported to a German class where the gunman later opened fire.

Derek O'Dell, his arm in a cast after being shot, described a shooter who fired away in "eerily silence" with "no specific target - just taking out anybody he could."

After the gunman left the room, students could hear him shooting other people down the hall. O'Dell said he and other students barricaded the door so the shooter couldn't get back in - though he later tried.

"After he couldn't get the door open he tried shooting it open... but the gunshots were blunted by the door," O'Dell said.

President George W. Bush and first lady Laura Bush were planning to attend a 2 p.m. (1800 GMT) convocation Tuesday, and people sought comfort Monday night at a church servide.

"For Ryan and Emily and for those whose names we do not know," one woman pleaded in a church service Monday night.

Another mourner added: "For parents near and far who wonder at a time like this, 'Is my child safe?"'

That question promises to haunt Blacksburg long after Monday's attacks. Investigators offered no motive, and the gunman's name was not immediately released.

The shooting began about 7:15 a.m. on the fourth floor of the dorm.

Police were still investigating around 9:15 a.m., when a gunman wielding two handguns and carrying multiple clips of ammunition stormed Norris Hall, a classroom building a half-mile away on the other side of the 2,600-acre campus.

At least 15 people were hurt in the second attack, some seriously. Many found themselves trapped after someone, apparently the shooter, chained and locked Norris Hall doors from the inside.

Students jumped from windows, and students and faculty carried away some of the wounded without waiting for ambulances to arrive.

Police commandos swarmed over the campus. A student used his cell-phone camera to record the sound of bullets echoing through a stone building.

Inside Norris, the attack began with a thunderous sound from Room 206 - "what sounded like an enormous hammer," said Alec Calhoun, a 20-year-old junior who was in a solid mechanics lecture in a classroom next door.

Screams followed an instant later, and the banging continued. When students realized the sounds were gunshots, Calhoun said, he started flipping over desks to make hiding places. Others dashed to the windows of the second-floor classroom, kicking out the screens and jumping from the ledge of Room 204, he said.

"I must've been the eighth or ninth person who jumped, and I think I was the last," said Calhoun. He landed in a bush and ran.

Calhoun said that the two students behind him were shot, but that he believed they survived. Just before he climbed out the window, Calhoun said, he turned to look at his professor, who had stayed behind, apparently to prevent the gunman from opening the door.

The instructor was killed, Calhoun said.
Erin Sheehan, who was in the German class next door to Calhoun's class, told the student newspaper, the Collegiate Times, that she was one of only four of about two dozen people in the class to walk out of the room. The rest were dead or wounded, she said.

She said the gunman "was just a normal-looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout-type outfit. He wore a tan button-up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something."

The gunman first shot the professor in the head and then fired on the class, another student, Trey Perkins, told The Washington Post. The gunman was about 19 years old and had a "very serious but very calm look on his face," he said.

"Everyone hit the floor at that moment," said Perkins, a second year student studying mechanical engineering. "And the shots seemed like it lasted forever."

At an evening news conference, Police Chief Wendell Flinchum refused to dismiss the possibility that a co-conspirator or second shooter was involved. He said police had interviewed a male who was a "person of interest" in the dorm shooting and who knew one of the victims, but he declined to give details.

Steger said authorities believed the shooting at the dorm was a domestic dispute and mistakenly thought the gunman had fled the campus.

"We had no reason to suspect any other incident was going to occur," he said.

Steger emphasized that the university closed off the dorm after the first attack and decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means to spread the word, but said that with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out.

He said that before the e-mail was sent, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms and sent people to knock on doors. Students were warned to stay inside and away from the windows.

"We can only make decisions based on the information you had at the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it," Steger said.

The 9:26 e-mail had few details:
"A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating." The message warned students to be cautious and contact police about anything suspicious.

Until Monday, the deadliest shooting in modern US history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard plowed his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

The massacre Monday took place almost eight years to the day after the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colorado. On April 20, 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

Previously, the deadliest campus shooting in US history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.

Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse Hokies football team.

Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks but that they had not determined whether they were linked to the shootings.

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of gunfire.

Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy was killed just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

As well as Librescu, among the dead were Kevin Granata, said Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.

https://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1176152812105&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[opus10no2]

God did not invent automatic rifles.  we did.  how can it be God's fault.  alistair, i'm glad we agree.

If god is seen as the designer , with or without ability/intent to intervene, then how can anything be seen as unforseeable?

The whole concept of a designer hinges on the hope that everything is not just random, that life happened by more than just chance.

*If* there is a designer, all negative consequences come from flaws in it's design.

Why does the word 'bad' exist to explain our negative experiences in relation to our better ones?

With wisdom beyond compare, why must a designer make suffering exist?

Without getting into a debate about the 'designer of the designer', it is as conceivable as any other theory, in my agnostic mind, that there is/was a designer, but I fail to see why it is worth worshipping, even if only for the fact that it 'blesses' us with the gift of existance, as opposed to the incomprehendable concept of non-existance.

Pianistimo, if you choose to respond, keep it short and concise.

[ahinton]

only when asked by thal - where was God?  he's always there.

Who is? Thal? No, seriously, "Where was God" looks pretty much to me like a total of three words, yet how many did you write about God, etc., in your responses?

I know that you do not mean to be unhelpful here, Susan, but was not this event already quite tragic enough without having all that pontification on top? Again, I'm not trying to mock or otherwise undermine your firmly held beliefs, but do please bear in mind that not everyone here (or anywhere else) wants to have to trawl through (or scroll over) paragraph after paragraph of God talk whenever you find it appropriate to avail yourself of the slightest opportunity or none to do it (even if incited to, as on this occasion, by a whole three words from Thal); whatever your intent (and I'm sure that it is anything but dishonourable), I do think that it will strike some as a little inconsiderate and insensitive...

Best,

Alistair

[rc]

(even if incited to, as on this occasion, by a whole three words from Thal); whatever your intent (and I'm sure that it is anything but dishonourable), I do think that it will strike some as a little inconsiderate and insensitive...

Best,

Alistair

9 words...

Anyways, I'm completely used to Pianistimo talking about her religion whenever prompted...  I don't see anything inconsiderate or insensitive about it

(I mostly scroll over no big deal)