LH chromatic minor 3rds

[phil13]

I seem to be getting the hang of the RH ones, but there seem to be multiple fingerings that work for the LH.

What fingering do you use?

Phil

[imbetter]

That's a good question that I've been pondering for a long time. I'm curious to see what people have to say.

[maul]

Yes. Mr. 11 year old here has been pondering the fingerings of left handed chromatic minor thirds for a very, very long time. Indeed.

[ted]

In general, if a figure has a satisfactory fingering in one hand, then its reflected fingering in the other hand will suit the reflected figure, give or take a few alterations if the context varies.

[imbetter]

Yes. Mr. 11 year old here has been pondering the fingerings of left handed chromatic minor thirds for a very, very long time. Indeed.

 

[m]

I seem to be getting the hang of the RH ones, but there seem to be multiple fingerings that work for the LH.

What fingering do you use?

Phil

I use exactly the same as for the R.H. (with sliding 2nd finger in both directions)

[ramibarniv]

I seem to be getting the hang of the RH ones, but there seem to be multiple fingerings that work for the LH.

What fingering do you use?

Phil

If you have good fingering for the RH, just mirror them for the LH.
The best fingering for chromatic minor 3rds is the one that employs sliding the 2nd finger from a black key to a white one.
RH going up: slide 2nd finger from D# to E and from A# to B.
RH going down; slide 2nd finger from Db to C and from Gb to F.
LH going down; slide 2nd finger from Db to C and from Gb to F.
LH going up: slide 2nd finger from D# to E and from A# to B.
Good luck,
Rami
https://www.youtube.com/user/barniv
https://ramisrhapsody.tripod.com/

[counterpoint]

What piece are we talking about? Debussy or Godowsky?

[pianistimo]

in my 'cooke' book it has (starting with  C and Eb): 42,  31, 53, 42, 31, 42, 31, 42, 31, 53, 42, 31, 42...

so, i guess it's a fast 'zip' to the D and F with 53 in this book. 

[opus10no2]

in my 'cooke' book it has (starting with  C and Eb): 42,  31, 53, 42, 31, 42, 31, 42, 31, 53, 42, 31, 42...

so, i guess it's a fast 'zip' to the D and F with 53 in this book. 

That fingering is, to be frank, crap.

[counterpoint]

That fingering is, to be frank, crap.

That's not crap, that's left hand upwards.

[pianistimo]

not if you know how to 'zip.'  you obviously are unaware of this very important technique.  i refer you to my huge knowledge of the subject - by requesting you to use the search function on 'zip.'  there you will find that if you want your hand someplace else - don't take all the time in the world to get there.  don't make this 'rainbow' arch two feet high.

opus10no2, can you explain to me how to use this 2 slide in coordination with the other fingers at the D#.  i'm just attempting to do it.  i like to use this with wider chords - but perhaps i am missing something.  (usually do this for sixths) basically, can you write out the first three or four pairs of fingers?  you may well have a better fingering.

[opus10no2]

OK-

the best 2 fingering for chromatic minor 3rds for RH ascending, are -

Starting on C+Eb

3454545345454
1212132121213

That's what happens with no slide.

The slide fingering is -

345343434534
121221212122

sliding from black note to adjacent white note.

[pianistimo]

and what are the ones for LH?  the first three or four?  make it short and sweet.

[opus10no2]

They should be obvious, go downwards from Csharp and E.

[counterpoint]

They should be obvious, go downwards from Csharp and E.

But we are not talking about downwards - we talk about upwards 

[phil13]

Wow, so many replies....

Btw, for the RH I've actually been using a fingering which slides the thumb over on the two adjacent white keys. I.e., starting on C+Eb:

3453434345343
1212112121211

Not sure if that can be mirrored in the LH, I'll have to try it later today.

Phil

[ramibarniv]

Wow, so many replies....

Btw, for the RH I've actually been using a fingering which slides the thumb over on the two adjacent white keys. I.e., starting on C+Eb:

3453434345343
1212112121211

Not sure if that can be mirrored in the LH, I'll have to try it later today.

Phil

Of course it can be mirrored.
As someone suggested, start on C# and E going down with LH.
BUT, using the sliding 2nd finger on the last black keys in whatever direction you are going is so much better, faster and smoother than sliding the thumb on 2 white keys.
Think of it: Sliding (the thumb) from one white key to its neighboring white key, you need to somehow lift your thumb in order to play that neighboring white key.
Sliding (finger 2) from a black key to the next white key, you don't need to lift the finger first, just continue a down movement.
Now compare to 2 and decide.
Best,
Rami
https://www.youtube.com/user/barniv
https://ramisrhapsody.tripod.com/

[counterpoint]

Wow, so many replies....

Btw, for the RH I've actually been using a fingering which slides the thumb over on the two adjacent white keys. I.e., starting on C+Eb:

3453434345343
1212112121211

Not sure if that can be mirrored in the LH, I'll have to try it later today.

Phil

That's the fingering I normally play chromatic thirds.

I never have tried the slider thing. I think, I don't like it 

[opus10no2]

The only non-sliding and completely legato 3rd fingering is the one I stated above.

The unique pivotal movement being the F + Ab - F# + A

fingered -

32
45

Crossing index over middle finger.

[m]

The only non-sliding and completely legato 3rd fingering is the one I stated above.

The unique pivotal movement being the F + Ab - F# + A

fingered -

32
45

Crossing index over middle finger.

Wow, this one is hard! 

[phil13]

2nd finger slide works great going up, but what about going down?

I don't want a completely different fingering going down; then I'd end up with different fingers on the same notes each time I play the chromatic scale.

I suppose the 2nd finger slide is efficient when talking about pieces like Chopin's Op.25 No.6, where I notice a lot of the scales either go down or up, but not both. HOWEVER, looking at my Chopin Etudes book, it has the exact same fingering as what I've been using for regular chromatic minor 3rds. Didn't Chopin himself write this fingering?

I like it. It works the exact same way going down as it does up, and there aren't any hassles about it.

Phil

[phil13]

SOOOO, by mirroring it and adjusting so it starts on C+Eb, ascending, the LH fingering I found is:

2112121211212
4343543434354

  Does that work?

Phil

[counterpoint]

SOOOO, by mirroring it and adjusting so it starts on C+Eb, ascending, the LH fingering I found is:

2112121211212
4343543434354

  Does that work?

Phil

Yes, that's correct. It looks somewhat weird, but it's the mirror of the fingering I use RH downwards. It's a bit strange, that the feeling in the RH is much better than in the LH 

[opus10no2]

Basically the 2nd finger slides off the bottom black key of every group of 2+3 when descending, and the top black key when ascending.

The index crossing fingering I saw in the Godowsky 25/6, so it must have some value!

Ill practice it more to see how it compares with the traditional 2-2 slide.