Counting/rythme question

[menancyandsam]

I'm learning this piece by Heller op. 138 n. 5.  Can anybody help me count the first two measures?

I've attached the sheetmusic & here is a youtube vid but I don't think the performer is playing the rythme in the 1st two m. correctly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWvY2vrWkwQ

 

[counterpoint]

The rhythm in the youtube video is correct.
The notation of the rhythm is a bit misleading, because the dot after the F# and the E# only belongs to the quarter note, not to the 16th.

So the counting is  1 and 2 3    4 and 5 6



( And now I know, where Randy Newman has stolen his famous song  )

[menancyandsam]

Thanks for the quick reply.

So for the 1st measure the F# is held down while the D-1/16 & the D-1/4 notes are played.  And the same for the E# for the 2nd half of the 1st measure.

So for the 2nd m. the counting would be E =1&, C#=2&3, C#=&. is that right?

p.s. I'm curious what Randy Newman song were you referring to.

Thanks again.

[jlh]

Hope this makes it clear.  Yes, hold down the longer note values while playing the 16ths.   

[danny elfboy]

I'm learning this piece by Heller op. 138 n. 5.  Can anybody help me count the first two measures?

I've attached the sheetmusic & here is a youtube vid but I don't think the performer is playing the rythme in the 1st two m. correctly.

There's something weird about this sheet.
The first bar for example either they're 2 16th notes or the second note must be a 32th note and not again a 16th note.

[jlh]

There's something weird about this sheet.
The first bar for example either they're 2 16th notes or the second note must be a 32th note and not again a 16th note.

Why?  I see 2 16th notes. 

[danny elfboy]

Why?  I see 2 16th notes. 

The 16th note first is dotted (or am I blind) ?

[jlh]

counterpoint discussed this above.  There are 2 voices in that first measure in the RH -- the 1/4 and the 1/16.  The dot is meant for the 1/4.

Josh

[danny elfboy]

counterpoint discussed this above.  There are 2 voices in that first measure in the RH -- the 1/4 and the 1/16.  The dot is meant for the 1/4.

Oh yes ... now I see it
I still find this notation rather confusing

[danny elfboy]

At least menancyandsam is right the guy in the video is not playing this properly as he is releasing the first voice too early

[ail]

same problem here: so, we have a 6/8 bar, that is, 6 eights or 3 quarter notes. we have two pure quarter notes and two dotted notes that may be either dotted quarters or dotted sixteenths. If they're dotted quarters, then there are superpositions of quarter notes and I would expect to see a pause somewhere to account for this, which I don't see. As such, I would surely attribute the dot to the sixteenth, although again either I'd expect a 32th after or another pause to enlighten me.

Would you please explain how one can decide who gets the dot? That is not clear from the score at all

Alex

[danny elfboy]

same problem here: so, we have a 6/8 bar, that is, 6 eights or 3 quarter notes. we have two pure quarter notes and two dotted notes that may be either dotted quarters or dotted sixteenths. If they're dotted quarters, then there are superpositions of quarter notes and I would expect to see a pause somewhere to account for this, which I don't see. As such, I would surely attribute the dot to the sixteenth, although again either I'd expect a 32th after or another pause to enlighten me.

Would you please explain how one can decide who gets the dot? That is not clear from the score at all

Look at the first note
It has both a stem above and is connected to a stem below to the 16th note beaming.
That means that the first note is both a quarter note (stem above) and a 16th note (stem below)

You know this because there's a beam or hitch below the first two notes and this is possible only if there's another 16th note to connect the second 16th note.

So again the F# is both a quarter and a 16th

Now the quarter gets the dot and the 16th doesn't

So you have two voices:

First voice - dotted quarter + dotted quarter (6/8)

Second voice - 16th + 16th + quarter + 16th + 16th + quarter = (6/8)

[ail]

ah, that counting makes sense now. I had seen the simultaneous notes, but I hand't separated the voices well. Thanks.

But I think that breaks in the second measure, as there is a single voice there, apparently. Where did the other go?
Or better yet, since we still have an E that is both a quarter and a sixteenth, which agains suggests two voices, should we consider that both play exactly the same notes in the rest of the measure? Because there are no more doubled notes. Nor in measures 3 to 5, although they appear again in 6. I'm confused 

Alex

[danny elfboy]

p.s. I'm curious what Randy Newman song were you referring to.

I think counterpoint is talking about the soundtrack of Love Story

[counterpoint]

I think counterpoint is talking about the soundtrack of Love Story

    

No, the song is called "In Germany before the War"

The beginning is: "In Germany before the war, there was a man who owned a store, in nineteen hundred thirty four, in Dόsseldorf..."

It's a song about the "Vampire of Dόsseldorf"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kuerten

[danny elfboy]

But I think that breaks in the second measure, as there is a single voice there, apparently.

Okay ... this is giving me an headache
Someone explains the second bar because I'm still not making sense of it
Shouldn't the quarter be dotted or be a rest above the E 16th?

[counterpoint]

Okay ... this is giving me an headache

Gratulation if you have no other problems 

Heller omitted the rests, because in this bar there is no following note in this voice.
It's just a simplification.

[danny elfboy]

This is how I would rewrite that bad stuff:

(maybe I'm not suited to this notation because the Curci sheet I buy are edited to improve the bad form of omissions like that)[not the reason I buy them, mind you]

[counterpoint]

This is how I would rewrite that bad stuff:

(maybe I'm not suited to this notation because the Curci sheet I buy are edited to improve the bad form of omission like that)

And how would you play that? Are you aware, that there is another e' in the left hand, which ends not before the 4th beat (in 6/8) of the bar?

[danny elfboy]

And how would you play that? Are you aware, that there is another e' in the left hand, which ends not before the 4th beat (in 6/8) of the bar?

I don't understand where's the problem.
I just changed the notation not the nature of the bar, it's still the same as Heller wrote.

[counterpoint]

To me, this quarter e' is a note without a defined end. It just gets overlapped by other e's. The rest suggests, that the note stops exactly on beat 3. But it doesn't.

[danny elfboy]

To me, this quarter e' is a note without a defined end. It just gets overlapped by other e's. The rest suggests, that the note stops exactly on beat 3. But it doesn't.

I see what you mean ...