How do you characterise 'stage presence' ?

[m1469]

And, what impact do you think it has on performing ?


Based on either your own experience and decisions with it as a performer, or on what you witness in others -- or both.

[oscarr111111]

I think its about time we saw a classical/hard rock crossover, the pianist can smash his piano up at the end of the performance.  Now THATS stage presence.

[kevink]

Huge impact. 

[jakev2.0]

Which pianist exerts the greatest force upon the concert platform?

By Newton's Second Law: Force, F = ma. Accerleration, a, towards the centre of the mass of the planet earth is given by acceleration due to gravity, g (9.81 m*s^-2).  Thus we have F = mg

Barring piano recitals on higher-than-earth gravity, in order to find the pianist who exerts the greatest force upon the concert stage we must find the most massive pianist.

Pianists who are known to contain a great amount of mass:

- John Ogdon
- Grigory Sokolov
- Lazar Berman

Estimating the mass of 1 Berman as 130 Kg, F = (130)*(9.81) = 1275 Newtons//

[opus10no2]

I think this means all of the visual elements of a live performance, it doesn't exist on recordings.

Something in the command, the authority...or lack of.

An aura some pianists have, a confidence.

For some it can be a seriousness, for others it can be just about entertainment and fun.

I don't think it is the most important thing, but the pretentious purity of some claiming that it distracts from the music, is BS.
Extra-musical elements of any performance are supposed to be just that - extra, and they are fine as long as they are known to be what they are.

IIWII

[pita bread]

iiwii

rofl

[pianogeek_cz]

I think opus10no2 has pretty much pinpointed the thing - visuual elements AND how they fit the music. That is, I think, very important; the pianist's movements have to correspond to what's happening in the music. How can you tell someone is theatrically exaggerating "emotion"? When what you see is different than what you hear. The ear doesn't let itself be fooled by sight easily, it's something like resonance - when both is right, then it suddenly builds up to that "performance magic" - or, a great stage presence - that puts live concerts on a completely different level of experience than recordings.

[counterpoint]

If you forget the concert date - your stage presence is insufficient.

[pianowolfi]

From the point of my current intentions stage presence would in all probability be best described by "the presence of" what I'd like to call "the musical self". Recently I had the experience that if this "musical self" appears fully, everything else comes onto the right place as well. Movements, phrasing, expression, all acting elements, everything. So it is, like many things, a mental process. If I treat this "musical self" like a living person instead of like an abstract combination of different knowledges and skills (which I used to do for a (too) long time) it works much better for me. Well...I will have the opportunity to test it out again today...

[invictious]

I play the piano for a start.
If needed, I will stop and start laughing hysterically, then continue playing.
Otherwise I perform with my pyjamas.

[jas]

I think for many stage presence is an act, part of the performance. The people for whom it's natural, when everyone shuts up (applause aside) when they walk on to the stage and no one in the room can take their eyes off them, are quite few and far between, but it's amazing when you do see it. I suppose it's partly mystery. That's why I reckon people like Lang Lang will never create the same frisson that, say, Horowitz and Argerich do (did).

[opus10no2]

Lang Lang's actions are completely natural, he does it even in practice, his body and face takes on the character of the feeling he uses in his interpretation, and many many people love it and are attracted to the sheer joy he seems to have at the instrument.

Horowitz appeared nervous and tense alot of the time, quite still, and this informed the atmosphere also, a nervous exciting atmosphere.

Argerich shows more ease and naturalness, it's just her fame that gives her most of the aura she has.

[ramseytheii]

Lang Lang's actions are completely natural, he does it even in practice, his body and face takes on the character of the feeling he uses in his interpretation, and many many people love it and are attracted to the sheer joy he seems to have at the instrument.

Horowitz appeared nervous and tense alot of the time, quite still, and this informed the atmosphere also, a nervous exciting atmosphere.

Argerich shows more ease and naturalness, it's just her fame that gives her most of the aura she has.

I think that's an insightful post.  It really has nothing to do with virtuosity per se, I've seen Hamelin live in concert and he has the stage presence of a cold fish.  It's very matter-of-fact.  Pletnev was the one pianist I've seen live who I was completely captivated all the way through.  He hardly moved, but the music breathed with such amazing character.  Towards the end of the program (the second half was Tchaikovsky 18 pieces op.72) at a climactic section in one of the pieces, he sort of propelled his body forward and lifted his hand off the keyboard, and that one movement in the whole concert was enough to send shivers up the spine.

He has sort of a morbid presence though, with the funereal walk, and the all-black outfit, etc.  For me personally it is more interesting than the "healthy" gait, like you see with virtuosos like Ohlsson or Olga Kern.

Walter Ramsey

[opus10no2]

Well, in Hamelin's case, he shows some of the most amazing technical and economical abilities of any pianist, and that alone makes him a marvel to watch, like he's chilling and all hell is breaking loose beneath his fingers.

But then, I do really like his playing alot of the time.

And yes, smiling happy virtuosi certainly have nothing like the same effect of a stern serious looking pianist.

[jas]

Lang Lang's actions are completely natural, he does it even in practice, his body and face takes on the character of the feeling he uses in his interpretation, and many many people love it and are attracted to the sheer joy he seems to have at the instrument.

Horowitz appeared nervous and tense alot of the time, quite still, and this informed the atmosphere also, a nervous exciting atmosphere.

Argerich shows more ease and naturalness, it's just her fame that gives her most of the aura she has.

Lang Lang's actions are (some believe) pretty OTT, whereas Argerich and Horowitz give less of themselves away. LL is clearly very at home on stage, enjoying the spectacle, having all eyes on him, and he does put on a show, whereas as the other two seem less comfortable. They have more of an air of the tortued artist, if you like (a bit dramatic but you know what I mean), whereas as LL is more of a performer. He's also more in the public eye, so he's more "knowable", and it's that kind of exposure that can cause someone to lose the mystery that often creates great stage presence. Plus, Argerich and Horowitz have been/were around long enough for their reputations to grow to pretty impressive heights.

There are other examples of both camps, of course, and I don't think it's anything to do with virtuosity - the three I've mentioned have all demonstrated some pretty spectacular pyrotechnics when they've wanted to. I think it's much more down to how much of yourself as a person that you reveal to the public, on stage and off. Too much and people aren't so interested.

[m1469]

Wow, okay.  It seems that with the exception of Wolfi and jas, most people think 'stage presence' has to do with motions at the piano and an act that is put on onstage.  Thanks, this is an eye-opener.

[opus10no2]

Too much and people aren't so interested.

Some people, depends on the audience. Yes , reputation has a huge impact on the prezzenz.

Anyway, a full personality cannot be expressed just by visual stimulus, the personality comes from the musical performance.

Und ja , m1469, I don't mention music because that's a 'given' and doesn't happen exclusively 'on stage'.

[m1469]

Und ja , m1469, I don't mention music because that's a 'given' and doesn't happen exclusively 'on stage'.

Well, I am not sure what you mean but I am not thinking about 'music' as the stage presence of a person, exactly (though, maybe that is exactly what I mean, actually  ).

[opus10no2]

Well, yes - the music is the audio element, and isn't exclusive to stage performance, so how can it mean anything but the other elements? Primarily psychological and visual..

Psychological...the reputation, anticipation, percieved feeling of the people in the audience, and the visual impression and appeal you get from the performer.

[jacobwynn]

This is a very interesting thread and very enjoyable to read: thanks to all.
On this topic, the opinions of Rachmaninov are mentioned on a thread on the other board.

[ramseytheii]

This is a very interesting thread and very enjoyable to read: thanks to all.
On this topic, the opinions of Rachmaninov are mentioned on a thread on the other board.

Stravinsky said Rachmaninoff was his favorite pianist, because Rachmaninoff never "grimaced" onstage.

Walter Ramsey

[mattgreenecomposer]

Did anyone mention Yefim Bronfman.  He's awesome to watch.  I saw him play the Rach 3.  INASANE!!!  Very Fun to watch.  He pounded the piano so hard for 45 minutes there were nothing but shards of wood left.

[Bob]

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[rc]

I once saw a girl play who had such a cold and joyless stage presense that she seemed to be yelling at the piano.  Stern expression, no hint of a smile, didn't look at the audience.  Her playing was technically sound, but I swear it's not just my imagination that her playing expressed all that.

I try and express comfort, as if everyone in the room is an old friend.  I'm not sure if this effects peoples enjoyment of the music, but at least it helps me to relax and enjoy the performance.

If you forget the concert date - your stage presence is insufficient.

 

[richard black]

Stage presence: members of the audience of the opposite sex (or indeed the same sex, according to taste) want to take you home afterwards. Or if you're really so old that that's out of the question (I'm thinking Horszowski etc. here) they want at least to meet you afterwards!

[pianistimo]

making sure you are seeable, followable, understandable in your movements and actions.  if you move too fast or slow - it's distracting.  also, you have to plan for unforseen events and if they happen - act like it's part of the show.  if you have good stage presence, about the only thing you couldn't hide would be the ceiling caving in.

[Bob]

.

[theodore]

Recitals old and new: Stage presence

One of my first professional piano recitals occurred when I was a US serviceman in southern Germany. The pianist was one who I had never heard of while I studied in the U.S.A.  However I found out that he was quite famous in Europe. I had to ask how his name was pronounced.

His name was Wilhelm Kempf. He played with a serious but heart felt demeanor often looking at some strange object high up in the rafters of the auditorium. As far as I can remember his program consisted of a Beethoven Sonata followed by a Schubert Sonata.

Then came a lengthy intermission where sweets, coffee, and apertifs were served. No one was in a hurry to start the second half of the recital. Finally Kempf came onstage and waved to some acquaintances in the audience and began to play the second half of the recital. The pieces were a complete change of pace and consisted of about 5 or 6 popular piano encores. Kempf had finished with the serious part of his recital and decided to just have fun for the second half.


theodore

[pianowolfi]

What we do as performers is creativity, that means creating a new world, or at least a new part of the world. So stage presence might be the ability to be a confident creator and self creator, and a being that interacts with the audience as a participant of a unique and powerful creation. And people in the audience ideally would feel themselves as likewise creative as the performer. So there is a common experience of something higher or something special that takes place. And this special thing does only take place if listeners and performers are very active and...yeah creative.

[m1469]

Today I sang a solo for a service in a local church.  I was pondering some thoughts on what I initially believed were acoustic and vocal issues, however, it led me to what I think is my current concept of what stage presence is -- for piano, too.

In short, it's not separate from the music (at least not in some fundamental way).  I was thinking about how I, as a vocalist, consider the entire space that I am singing in as my instrument.  I happen to have a pretty "big" voice, and with this comes a certain psychological factor for me.  Fundamentally, I, as a person, MUST be okay with "taking up space" -- this is a specific idea that I have had coaches speak with me about, but also that I have had to consciously consider.  Well, there are loads of psychological issues with that, and while that plays a huge role, it's not really the point.

The point is, I have to be willing to let my sound fill a space, which means I have to allow myself to fill a space.  Sometimes I even have clear ideas of this sound passing/vibrating right through the individuals in the audience, or the entire group.  And, in a sense, I have to be okay with myself passing through them -- and us meeting somewhere "in the middle" of all of this (which is actually a magical experience).

Now, I cannot walk out onto stage feeling small and expect to fill the space with my sound.  I MUST find a way to fill that space before I walk onto stage and during.  It's actually as though it is an inaudible sound that I must let emanate from within me -- both backstage and onstage.  I must, as a individual, fill the space before I make a sound.  Well, I am in the kindergarten of recognizing and developing what the way of filling that space is for me, but, I think I know what to pay attention to now. 

Perhaps this is the thing that is often labeled as charisma ?

Well, then I shifted these thoughts to piano, and I shifted to thinking about a man who plays the pianoforte whom I have encountered.  When the idea of acoustics came up to him, he said that "you have to believe the people in the back row will hear it" -- at the time I thought that was an interesting comment, and I still do. 

But, I took it a little further.  What if I treated the space for my piano sound in the very same way I do my vocal sound ?   I think that many professional musicians have this figured out and actually do this very thing -- I think I see this in Horowitz, for example.  For me, though, it's a little fresh yet.  I realize that just like with singing, my countenance must fill the space with an inaudible sound, I must create my own space with my pianist self just like I must do with my vocal self.  And, this is not separate from the music.  When I play, I must aim to envelope the space as though this sound were my very voice -- because, it really is.

I think that a performer's ability to fill the space with their inaudible self will define their stage presence, as well as hint at one's audible self; and really, one's inaudible self and one's audible self will be/are one -- and I think this makes a HUGE/infinite impact on the overall performance experience for all involved.  A bit abstract, but right now it makes perfect sense to me and I am excited .