I am with you always

[thalbergmad]

In order to try to keep a balanced view of Religion, me has been reading a book called "I am with you always" written by a man called G Scott Sparrow.

It relates many occasions where people have claimed to have had some contact with Jesus, usually at times of change or crises during their lives. Astoundingly, there is even a case where a terminally ill child was healed by Jesus' touch, after her parents had said their final good-byes.

I find this utterly fascinating (and moving) but must admit to being a little bit suspicious as to what is actually going on here. Is it just delusion, or could there be something else?.

If it is true, then how does Jesus make up his mind on who to help and who to ignore. There does seem to be a lot of cases where Jesus has helped people that were non-believers.

What is going on here, is it complete bollox or is it possible that people have met or seen Jesus over 2,000 years after he left us.

Thal

Pianistimo - Please keep responses to under a million words
Pianistimo - I promise not to attack your answers

[pianowolfi]

"I am with you always". These are wonderful words. You said them yourself, Thal , by putting them into your title without quotation marks It's the definition of Jesus, so to say, more precisely of Christ.  That's what I think. Not always I am actually able to think that, just in rare moments. But if Jesus (Christ) exists, that is his essence to me, somehow...

[pianistimo]

some say religion is a ritual - but certain things are 'proscribed.'  if you don't follow them - then you don't reap exactly the same benefits.  it's like having an ira vs not.  if you buy it and pay into it - you get the rewards at the end and the security knowing it's there.  ok.  first off - you have to truly believe that He is.  you can't be on the fence -praying 'i think you're there.'  you have to pray a prayer to God and ask Him to reveal Himself to you so that you KNOW.  this could be done on a mountainside in a blinding snowstorm or wind/hail/rain in the summer - although the quiet moments are easier on the body.  you know - the one where you are praying and suddenly the sun comes out or a gust of wind blows by the tree that you are standing near - and all the leaves are rustling.  suspicious is not the word i would use.  'trusting' is.  like a child.  as a child, you know that even if your parents are not right beside you -they are still reliably near (or should be).

once you know - you take accountability for what you know.  i think you already do with things you find 'truthful' in your life.  i mean - if you know something is true - then you discard what is false and keep replacing falsehood with truth.  not keeping some falsehood and some truth.  how to do that?  read the bible.  people think that truth is something vague.  actually it's quite concrete.  i mean - you hit the pavement and then say - ok.  i need Jesus Christ because i'm a sinner.  everyone is a sinner.  at that point, you fall on your knees and repent.  this is a life changing moment.  i'm telling you!  from then on - you've got a warrior on your side.  there's a psalm that calls Jesus a 'dread champion.'  mess with you and they're messing with God.

now, some church groups feel that at this point baptism is unnecessary because you have 'accepted Jesus into your heart.'  but, is that what Jesus said?  i believe that he said 'unless you be born of spirit and water - you can in no wise enter the kingdom of God.'  even if there was no kingdom of God - the Holy Spirit impels you to seek God first - no matter what.  it is giving your life over to an entity that made you - so that you can be filled with a wisdom that doesn't come from things or money or power or fame.  the typical things that motivate people.  basically, it changes you to be satisfied with what you have and still work very hard each day towards the goal of excellence.  to be an excellent worker or servant of God.  bach called himself a 'servant.'  anwyas - to make it short - the Holy Spirit is granted to us when we openly proclaim ourselves a servant of God in front of our congregation (whichever that is).  i know for sure that baptists believe in baptism.  if you choose a congregation which believes in baptism - you are choosing to go before a body of believers and show God that you believe He will grant you the Holy Spirit (as Jesus himself was baptized by John the Baptist - and after that the Holy Spirit descended upon him as a dove).  you may not literally 'see' the Holy Spirit - but you will feel it more and more in your conscience.  you will be able to have a direct line in prayer to God.  those whom you pray for - and when you pray for yourself - you will sense that fulfillment of a prayer that ascended to the very throne of God.  i don't understand it fully myself - but i do know what it feels like to be heard.  not all prayers are answered 'yes.'  but, you will find a closer connection to accepting what is difficult as a form of answered prayer.

paul had a 'thorn in the flesh' (whether it was literally something wrong with his health - or something mentally he had to deal with) - and God did not relieve him of it - but tested his faith.  paul remained faithful despite this and many many of his other prayers WERE answered with 'yes.'  also, don't expect everyone around you to be thrilled about the idea.  but, once you're on a racetrack - if you are a thoroughbred - you don't look back.  it's funny - but i really notice this now.  people with rear view mirrors are just plain slow.  some people, for years, do not forgive and forget - but when they become christians - all of a sudden they are much more understanding of those that did them wrong because they realize that is what Jesus Christ does for us daily.  each morning as David prayed - he would mentally remember some of these prayers and write them down (the psalms for us - some songs and some prayers).  'great is Thy faithfulness' is part of one of those.  morning by morning -new mercies i see.'  maybe his prayer was slightly different than the song - but he did speak of renewed mercy each day.

when you let go of anger and pride (which can come back each day without prayer) - you feel utterly at peace.  it's a much different feeling than being on the defensive each day.  it's like sharpening a sword that is not meant to kill - but meant for peaceable things.  to change things that are evil for good.  even our enemies are said to be at peace with us - when we pray.  i've also experienced being near someone whom i thought was possessed and praying for the person - and having them become utterly quiet.  i don't think casting out demons is a first priority for most christians - but there are times they become obnoxious.  basically they are fighting peace of mind for anyone and everyone around them. 

i have to admit to not practicing as much what i preach from day to day - but week to week i usually get some prayer and bible study in.  i saw a sign today that said - 'if God is your co-pilot - you need to switch places.'  it sort of hit me that is what our typical mind is about.  us driving the happenings in our life (or so we think) - but it is actually better to pray about God's will.  what is God's will for our life.  He made us - he must have some idea what we're supposed to be doing.  then, things happen that we don't expect.  it's really truly 'wierd' and happy at the same time.  you just get a sense of peace about what you are doing.  that it matters.  now and in the future.

[pianistimo]

ps i don't care if you question what i say.  i don't feel it's an attack.  say whatever you like.  whatever are your first responses.  even if you think - but, i can do it on my own.  that's what most people who are not christian say.  but can they?  when things turn bleak and dark.  family is not always there.  spouses are not always there.  but God is ALWAYS there if you 'seek Him when He may be found.'

there have been several times in my life that i felt a literal touch (whether by God, an angel, or an active imagination).  once was during a communion service.  i was touched on the right shoulder - like a warm hand rested on it for a moment.  i turned around really fast thinking that the people behind me were trying to get my attention.  they looked at me strangely.  so i thought - aha, my husband just put his hand around my shoulder (because before that i was reading the bible).  so i looked at him - and asked him 'did you just put your hand on my shoulder?'  he said 'no.'  i didn't tell anyone about this for many years - but i just sort of wondered what the point was.  i was hoping it was something good.  perhaps encouragement. 

the second time was late at night (second night after having a broken leg and getting told it was going to be 'casted tommorrow.'  that's what i thought the previous day.  it was getting old.  the pain.  the bother.  the waiting).  a couple came in to pray for my roomie - i said 'amen' to their prayer.  then, they ask - 'do you want us to pray for you?'  so i say 'sure.'  after they leave - later at night i feel this sort of warm hand or warm feeling right on the broken spot of my leg - as thought He's saying 'everything's going to be ok.'  so in the morning - i wasn't really as worried as i thought i was going to be when told that i might be 'cut up.'  basically it would be a cut on the inside of the leg from mid-calf to a couple of inches above the knee.  of course, nobody 'just accepts' everything...so i told him how important sunbathing was to me.  i said that i've always been proud of my legs and that i didn't want to lose them to a huge gash.  but, i said - whatever has to be done.  i was fully expecting 'the works' when i woke up.  amazingly, the doctor was able to set the tibea and fibula (broken in different places) straight without any cutting.  i considered that an answer to prayer.  as well as having felt that 'presence.'

[jlh]

Well thalbergmad it was well less than a million words.  Though she hit 6,502 keys to write you a response.  She must like you...  

 ,

Josh

[ramseytheii]

If it is true, then how does Jesus make up his mind on who to help and who to ignore. There does seem to be a lot of cases where Jesus has helped people that were non-believers.

In the ancient polytheistic times (in times of Gods towards whom we are now all atheists), crimes were often solved by intervention from the Gods.  If for example there were two suspects for a crime, but it couldn't be proven either way, both were made to drink poison.  Usually, a confession would follow from one of the two, and  that was recorded.

If the confessions are true, a startling thing was observed a millennium later.  Someone, whose name escapes me, studying those records discovered that the one who had confessed was, the majority of the time, the only one who died from swallowing poison.  Why did the innocents so often live?  The Gods must have protected them.

No - it was because of the way they ingested the poison.  The innocent survivors would take the poison in one gulp, confident that the Gods would redeem them.  It would irritate the stomach lining, and come out harmlessly in vomit.  The guilty would sip slowly, trying to beat the system; the poison would go in through the mouth, rather than the stomach, and go straight into the heart, into the circulatory system.  It was purely a matter of psychology.

I don't know how Jesus works, but it is safe to say he has an eccentric habit of preferring out-of-the-way appearances like grilled cheese sandwiches or tortillas.  The question is, how does he pick which sandwich?  Millions must be made every day.  Or perhaps we just don't notice Jesus is on our sandwich?

"I am with you always" - Christopher Hitchens sadistically remarked that the existence of an omniscient God would be as horrible as life in North Korea.

Walter Ramsey

[Bob]

"I am with you always."  Didn't Obi Wuan say that in Star Wars?


May the force be with you.

[maul]

Actually it was, "The Force will be with you... always."

[jlh]

Darth Maul has spoken...

May the Schwartz Be With You! 

[wishful thinker]

If it is true, then how does Jesus make up his mind on who to help and who to ignore. There does seem to be a lot of cases where Jesus has helped people that were non-believers.

I don't think that He ignores anybody.  Perhaps that these documented experiences are happening when people are most "receptive" is your answer.

What is going on here, is it complete bollox or is it possible that people have met or seen Jesus over 2,000 years after he left us.

No I don't think it is bollox, because it happened to me

[pianowolfi]

I don't think that He ignores anybody.  Perhaps that these documented experiences are happening when people are most "receptive" is your answer.

No I don't think it is bollox, because it happened to me

 

[shortyshort]

No I don't think it is bollox, because it happened to me

What exactly happened to you? 

Please tell. 

[wishful thinker]

Fear not, my friend, nothing bad 

[shortyshort]

Fear not, my friend, nothing bad 

Sorry, I thought that you were implying that you had met Jesus.

I was just concerned about your sanity and/or drug problem.

[wishful thinker]

Sorry, I thought that you were implying that you had met Jesus.

I was just concerned about your sanity and/or drug problem.

See, the concept of God is an unprovable thing 

I need no proof, though I have it    You need proof, though can never be given it (not by me anyway) 

[shortyshort]

See, the concept of God is an unprovable thing 

I need no proof, though I have it    You need proof, though can never be given it (not by me anyway) 

If the concept of God is unprovable, how have you got proof?

If you have proof, then you should share it.

[wishful thinker]

What I meant was that I cannot prove it to you, especially if you take the attitude that I have a drug problem. 

[shortyshort]

What I meant was that I cannot prove it to you, especially if you take the attitude that I have a drug problem. 

Surely proof is proof. I think you're getting confused between "Proof" and "Belief".

If you have proof, you should be able to prove it.

[zheer]

In order to try to keep a balanced view of Religion, me has been reading a book called "I am with you always" written by a man called G Scott Sparrow.

  Smart way of learning. Me also read non fictional bookz.

[pianistimo]

i can't speak for wishful thinker - and cannot even prove what i am saying is true.  you have to experience it for yourself.  but, as wishful thinker is pointing out - it is unlikely you will experience God in the many forms He can take (whether miracles/answers to prayer, direct contact in some way, or indirect - through other people saying and doing things at just the right moment to encourage you) if you express doubt.

the good thing is - that even the disciples had doubt.  peter was walking on water - but suddenly looked down at the water instead of at Jesus.  the way things appear is not always the way they 'are.'  we think they 'are' because of our understanding of science.  but, what if God can undo anything scientific to fit the bill of 'miracle.'  to defy a natural law for the sake of helping someone's faith.  for instance - to make the sun stand still.  to allow strange phenomenon that have previously not been seen (plagues of egypt - so many years ago, and various problems we see today that are 'unusual').  gideon and his wet/dry cloth experience.  Jesus Christ casting out demons, walking on water, changing water to wine, forgiving and helping lepers/diseased people be cured. 

i believe we will all see more and more unusual phenomenon as God reveals Himself and his word true.  if you believe or don't believe - it's really only affecting yourself.  your own future.  i mean - we can positively affect others by relaying what has happened in our own lives  and encouraging them to be open to God.  but, it all depends on what we each personally do with the information. 

for instance - you can be satisfied that you are sure 'there is no God.'  but, isn't that being closed minded if you happen upon a situation where there was a 99-1 chance that this was not chance happening - but a true miracle?  where do miracles fit into non-belief?  they don't.  you can't explain them - but they exist.  i know this for a fact myself.  an absolute fact.  could i prove it unless i was with someone and another miracle happened- probably not.

but, faith isn't just seeing.  faith is believing without seeing first.  that is why Jesus said 'blessed are those who haven't seen me, and yet believe.'  thomas actually saw the wound in Jesus side and the nail holes in his hands.  we have to wait to see the ressurrected Jesus.  and yet, he gave us the Holy Spirit as a comforter.  if you want to test the spirits - test and see if baptism does not bring you joy, peace, happiness, love - and those elements that are 'spiritual' and not 'chemical.'  how can one be happy when everything is seemingly going wrong in one's life.  there are christians that you can meet that have had terrible experiences, lives - and they do not become broken or feel badly.  why is this so?  i think it is because God gives us energy like no other.  you can't bottle it.  it's free, too.  it is like a calling card to God's hotline.  any problem you know you can get solved - so you just don't worry.   

because of having faith - you worry less and more positive things come into your life.  you can't help but be blessed when God is for you.  abraham was one of the most blessed men on earth.  God started just giving him things.  but not before he tested him severely.

[pianistimo]

to me, God does not express himself as a magician of sorts.  He does not typically say - ok - you want the sun to stand still.  here, I'll do it.  but, if you ask a quiet and brave type of prayer - 'God, i know you are there.  i have a problem in my life and i really need your help.  show me what to do in this situation.'  or, 'help me maintain a good mind-set even when things are sometimes not so pleasant.'

i've also prayed ridiculous prayers and gotten answers.  for instance, i am the world's worst mechanical fixer - so i prayed over the garbage disposal when my husband wasn't there to fix it.  sure enough - i turn in on again - and something flies out and it works again.  i think it was a penny that got caught or something.

also, i was once flying and about to land in Washington state.  it started pouring down rain.  looking out the window, i said a prayer to God in my mind - 'God, i don't like landing in rain.  it makes me worry about slipping and crashing.  can you just stop the rain for a bit?  let us land the plane?'  now, some might say - you can't prove this one way or another - but, it stopped raining within a 1/2 minute or so.  this makes me think that God CAN hear ridiculous prayers, too. 

mostly, i think He wants to hear us say prayers for others.  if we always pray for ourselves and our needs - it's not really expressing christianity at it's best.  so - i think His favorite prayers of ours would be to praise Him and praise His ability to solve difficulties and needs of other people.  there is no better gift to someone else than to pray for them spiritually and physically.  if God is a healer - then there is also no better doctor.  no better encourager or psychologist.  no better lover.  no better sympathizer to our human feelings.   

[thalbergmad]

Has she reached a million yet?

[jlh]

Has she reached a million yet?

Patience, my friend...it will happen soon enough. 

[pianistimo]

that's all folks.  i'm going swimming at the YMcA - and yes - thal is very dear to me.  a sort of trusty untrusty sort.  i mean - i can always count on him to destroy every ounce of what i thought was the question - and turn it into this bizarre tripe about 'women have nothing to offer.'  like cecile chaminade.  as i see it - let him burn in hell (just for today).  tommorrow i shall save him again.

someday thal will see that women have intuition.  a man without a woman may as well destroy his brain.  of course, it could work the other way around - a woman without a man may as well destroy her intuition (for lack of having anyone to use it on).

ok. cecile chaminade was a a great miniaturist.  just like schumann.  you don't say 'such and such composer is * because they are a woman.'  and just because they write miniatures doesn't mean they are midgits living in a giants world.  in fact, i consider miniatures to be harder to compose (in some senses) because you have to make them say everything you want with less notes.  if liszt had to write a miniature of anything - he would have written 10 pages minimum.  it's like writing a haiku.

[thalbergmad]

I have read all your posts, but i really fail to follow your train of thought.

Oh well, happy swimming.

Thal

[pianistimo]

ok.  have you ever seen that movie 'blue crush' - where the guy doesn't touch the girl but she feels his presence as he holds his hands about 1-2" away from her and traces her outline.  now this is a sort of sensual comparison - but as i see it - the energy and heat from our bodies has a direction outward that others can feel.  so you don't literally have to touch someone to know that they are there. 

with God - he can be 1 million miles away and still here?  do i claim it is body heat?  i don't know.  God is light.  light moves fast.  some at harvard say they can stop light dead in it's tracks.  but, is that really so?  can someone cause light to go from infinite speed to a dead stop?  how?  wouldn't it just bounce backwards?

getting off track here - i know.  but, anyways - take the idea that light comes to a dead stop.  it would pile up wouldn't it?  and you would suddenly burn a hole through whatever was stopping it.  now, i've not seen anyone burned by God.  but, it would be a sort of 'breakthough' in meeting Him head on. 

i think He's more than simply light.  obviously He's got a brain.  a very great and creative and compassionate one.  the ancients compared the sun to a god.  But, this God has no nuclear source.  I don't this He's constantly fusing is He?  He can be a cloud (as he was in the OT to the israelites) - but it was a glowing cloud.  He can be a quiet voice.  He can be a loud voice.  ok.  Think genie.  whatever you want - he can do and be.  that's how I see God.  also, I see Him as the ultimate in understanding and also reading our minds.  He knows everything that is going on - and yet, i don't think He's a miniscule judger or arbiter - He takes the facts and rolls with them.  He doesn't get stuck on little points. 

[thalbergmad]

that is even more confusing than your first post

[pianistimo]

matt. 19:26 'with men this is impossible (a camel going through the eye of a needle - or a rich person entering heaven without unloading their burdens), but with God all things are possible.'

now, if ALL things are possible - what is impossible?  perhaps i am becoming too philosophical.

[thalbergmad]

perhaps i am becoming too philosophical.

You are a fascinating lady

[pianistimo]

thank you.  i find you irresistable - despite my repression of feelings.  i am still visualizing you atop mt blanc - wheezing but stable.  a sort of 'defying the odds' type of person. 

[thalbergmad]

I thought you were going swimming

[pianolearner]

Actually it was, "The Force will be with you... always."

No,  it was: "I'll Have Fries With That"

[ramseytheii]

No,  it was: "I'll Have Fries With That"

"Where's the beef?"

Walter Ramsey

[jlh]

ok.  Think genie.  whatever you want - he can do and be.  that's how I see God. 

God is a Genie?  There to do whatever you want and be whatever you want him to be?

[pianistimo]

yep.  first of all - He just said the word and it was done.  second, He can change what He just did.

but, i don't think He's there only for our wishes as dishes.  taking our orders down comes later.  at the ressurrection.  when we garner our rewards.  right now - we have to listen to His orders.  commands.  whatever.  we have the 'ten commandments.'  they weren't the 'ten suggestions.' 

there's someplace in the bible that mentions God valuing obedience.  that's usually the first thing that He asks of everyone who follows Him.  you know that song 'i will follow Him.'  well, it's easy to sing - but harder to do in real life.  for one thing - some of the things he asks aren't typical to our society.  honor your parents.  etc.  it's just uncool.  but, the more you learn and do - the more He is actually with you.  He is with you in thoughts and actions.

and, it sort of requires one to become conditioned to following only one Master.  i find it also interesting that God likes to literally 'hang out' with us - one day a week.  the same day that he rested from His work - he wants to rest with us.  it reminds me of families that hang out on the porch together.  unless a family makes a routine or tells everyone - ok at 2:00 we're hanging - everybody would be gone or doing something else.  it's a mental effort at first- but when habit- you look forward to 'hanging out.'  basically right now - i just read the bible and wait for certain verses to pop-out.  to direct me for the next week.  it's like sitting down next to God and Him talking to you.

in fact, i am reading genesis 2 and about how God 'blessed the seventh day.'  so, you not only hang out - you get blessed.  for quieting your soul.  you don't have to be anxious or have worries every day of the week.  actually, with God there are no worries anyway.  but, for example - when you meditate (whether on the bible for God , or music for yourself) - you set your mind to focusing on one thing.  usually.  to me, that is the time we feel 'i am with you always - EVEN TO THE END OF THE AGES' because we are focusing on God's presence. matt. 28:20

sorry to keep going on this - but it's the gospel in a nutshell.  something i find very interesting is that the apostle paul was put into a position he never was before.  he always had the upper hand of christians.  then, he became a christian.  he starts out the book of philemon 'paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus...'  now, one might say - why did He say prisoner.  well, i think he forgot to say what he was thinking .  He was a willing prisoner.  wherever Jesus went - He wanted to be.  and Jesus had recently been crucified - so paul was saying - i will go anywhere.  even to death.  that was a huge change in his previous hardened attitude towards Christ and christians because he actually helped to kill christians before.  now, he was willingly putting himself in their shoes.  very different than the other disciples who were hand picked, so to speak.  paul - willingly goes to the gentiles no matter the cost to his pride and to his previous ideas of what he wanted to do personally (which was kill christians since he thought they had pride).

[thalbergmad]

something i find very interesting is that the apostle paul was put into a position he never was before. 

I thought you were against that.

Thal

[pianistimo]

missionary position?  you are so clever.  well, as it so happens - i am quite relaxed about positions.  not that anyone on here will care -since i am a married woman.  it's just that as one gets older - one worries about one's back.  comfortable positions are rather lazy - it's just that doing it while standing left my arsenal two years ago. 

[thalbergmad]

it's just that doing it while standing left my arsenal two years ago. 

I don't believe what you are saying here.

Not exactly coy about your sex life.

Thal

[pianistimo]

ok.  four years ago.  seven years ago.  i can't exactly remember. 

i was going to delete this.  now you have made it impossible.  now,look what you have done. 

yes.  i have a strange back now.  when i broke my leg i think it shortened by 1/4 of an inch.  i find myself standing a little on my toes with my right leg.  hate to see what would happen if i put on spike heels now.  i'd have to stuff the right shoe.  of course, i'd be towering over my husband, too. he's only an inch or so taller.  hmmm.

well, 'bringing sexy back' is not a bad idea.  that is why i am working out so much.  2 hours here.  2 hours there.  the thing is - how many hours is this going to take?

[thalbergmad]

i was going to delete this.  now you have made it impossible.  now,look what you have done. 

HAHA

Saved for ever.

Even if you delete your post, this will stay.

Tha ;Dl

[Siberian Husky]

[pianistimo]

a rebuilt engine, i suppose.  yes.  siberian.  that is what we are talking about.

btw, how are you?  i never found out what you were up to.  is that car yours? 

[thalbergmad]

oh oh, faints.

Slightly modified 200sx.

Thal