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Which handspan do you think is minimum and/or maximum required to play Chopin's etude op. 10,1

More than a major tenth black/white key
2 (10%)
A major tenth black/white key
1 (5%)
A minor tenth or a major tenth white/white key
3 (15%)
a ninth
4 (20%)
an octave
8 (40%)
less than an octave
2 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required? (Read 3031 times)

Offline pianowolfi

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Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
« on: June 03, 2007, 02:49:56 PM »
I ask myself this because I try to figure out which is the minimal handspan that is necessary. I try to keep my hand as closed as possible. Have your say :)

piano sheet music of Etude


Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #1 on: June 03, 2007, 05:09:05 PM »
im not sure there is a specific handspan, just a fairly big hand and good technique
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline jabbz

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #2 on: June 03, 2007, 05:45:46 PM »
Hardly any span is required to play this at all, there should be no stretching or snatching, the hand should move from the forearm. The most important thing is a very supple wrist

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #3 on: June 03, 2007, 06:32:24 PM »
im not sure there is a specific handspan, just a fairly big hand and good technique

Well a fairly big hand, what is that exactly? My theory is that the span of an octave is enough. I can't prove this, I am still trying and I can reach a tenth white/white, but I guess that there are several people with only an octave span who can play this etude.

Hardly any span is required to play this at all, there should be no stretching or snatching, the hand should move from the forearm. The most important thing is a very supple wrist

Yeah that's what I think too. So far. Any more experiences?

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #4 on: June 03, 2007, 06:39:50 PM »
Depends how much you use your left hand really.

Thal
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Concerto Preservation Society

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #5 on: June 03, 2007, 06:53:42 PM »
good point thal, there we go. the minimum is an octave. because the LH is in octaves. RH doesnt matter about span
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline counterpoint

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #6 on: June 03, 2007, 07:52:27 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks that size matters in this etude?

It's possible to replace all stretching with arm movements, but at the real tempo, the arm is way too slow to make all these movements. It's like Erlking, but only in horizontal direction.
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline jabbz

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #7 on: June 03, 2007, 08:00:03 PM »
I'd disagree, because the 5th finger should propel the entire hand/wrist forward, thus bringing you to the next position. I don't disagree that having big hands would be an advantage (it is, I can span an 10th comfortably), but it's inessential, even at tempo.

Offline amanfang

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #8 on: June 04, 2007, 03:44:55 AM »
Ian Hobson did a seminar at my school and proposed this alternate fingering which may work:

3 1 2 4 2 1 2 4 2 1 2 4 2
When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

Offline jakev2.0

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #9 on: June 04, 2007, 03:45:56 AM »
Ian Hobson did a seminar at my school and proposed this alternate fingering which may work:

3 1 2 4 2 1 2 4 2 1 2 4 2

THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T PLAY THE ETUDE PROPERLY.

Offline jlh

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #10 on: June 04, 2007, 04:24:35 AM »
You need an octave.  Even if you can reach a 10th, if you're not using your wrist properly you will run into problems.  The first C you play in the RH should get off that key and your wrist is in motion to get to the next one.  The wrist is actively involved and if not used properly you will most likely injure yourself even if you can get it up to speed.  The notes are too spread out to get the power you need as well as the lightness if you stay in the C area (for instance).

I've seen short girls with small hands play this etude convincingly.
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
                 ___/\___
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LOL "”””””””\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
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Offline counterpoint

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #11 on: June 04, 2007, 08:00:18 AM »

I've seen short girls with small hands play this etude convincingly.

Are you aware that even "short" girls can have long fingers?
I would be very interested in a concrete example, where someone with a max. span of an octave played op.10-1 properly in reasonable tempo. I don't believe that this is possible until I see it.
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #12 on: June 04, 2007, 12:54:07 PM »
This etude is nothing about hand span. This etude is an etude of pure dexterity and suppleness. The key is the contractions. People focus on the expansion, but really there is none. (At least in the technique I have adopted). I always keep the wrist low, fingers pointing slighty towwards the right FLAT (that is a major issue) and let the thumb follow the hand and come down. This eliminates all isues on hand span, as they all become easy like this.

Has anybody used the fingering 1 3(or2) 5 2 1 3 5 2 .....

Cortot used it. I have practiced it like that a lot, and it is very good, alhough I would never perform it like that, it really shows you the correct movements if you can get the thumb over the 5th finger perfectly legato. It forces the hand to do the correct movements and and if perfectied it can be used in performance.

Offline counterpoint

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #13 on: June 04, 2007, 01:16:42 PM »
Paradox situation: a dozen people - who have a hand span of a decime or more - tell me, that it would be possible to play as easy with a span of an octave.

I don't have much problems with that etude myself, but I can span a decime (hardly).
And all people I know, who can play this etude have a span of a decime or more.
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #14 on: June 04, 2007, 01:19:45 PM »
i'm playing it ok with a span of a ninth.  i don't find any troubles yet.  just move with the tide.

Offline dnephi

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #15 on: June 04, 2007, 02:28:58 PM »
However, your tone is uneven and your tempo is also wavering slightly.

8).  Fixing that is the majority of the difficulty.
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #16 on: June 04, 2007, 03:06:03 PM »
what is the aim of the study?
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #17 on: June 04, 2007, 04:35:20 PM »
Legato over wide stretches and relaxation of the arm and hand.

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 04:45:16 PM »
lol everything that im bad at
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline dnephi

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #19 on: June 04, 2007, 04:45:43 PM »
Doesn't that make it the perfect etude for you, then? :D
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #20 on: June 04, 2007, 04:50:56 PM »
i dont know how to relax! i mean in piano
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #21 on: June 04, 2007, 05:47:51 PM »
Relaxation in op10no1 is easy if you know what to do. Don't worry elevate, when you come visit me I'll show you the secrets  ;)

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #22 on: June 04, 2007, 07:06:56 PM »
what is the aim of the study?

Music.

Czerny wrote Etudes, Chopin wrote masterpieces.

Use what ever methods are required to give the best effect.

I always used to use my left hand and i don't give a monkeys armpit what criticism i get.

Thal ;D
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Offline marco_from_brazil

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Re: Chopin op. 10,1 Which handspan is required?
«Reply #23 on: June 06, 2007, 06:25:22 PM »
my teacher barely reaches an octave and rips this etude to shreds... :)

i have almost an 11th and have only learned the notes, been studying for a bit over a month. long way to go still.
Learning:
Bach Prelude and Fugue C-minor WTC Bk.2
Chopin Etude no.6 Op. 10
Beethoven 6 Variations on 'Nel cor piu non mi sento'
Villa-Lobos 'As traquinices do mascarado mignon'