The Theories of Pianistimo

[thalbergmad]

Here you go sweetie, i thought you deserved a thread for all of your theories.

Might help keep the other threads a bit more on subject.

Can you please explain how long it took for the Grand Canyon to be formed again. That was one of your best ones.

Thal

[dnephi]

I have a random one pianistimo:

What makes wine good? 

Now, pianistimo, take John, first two chapters.  What does this demonstrate? 

Best of luck (And pm me if you can't find a conclusion)

Daniel

[ramseytheii]

I have a random one pianistimo:

What makes wine good? 

Now, pianistimo, take John, first two chapters.  What does this demonstrate? 

Best of luck (And pm me if you can't find a conclusion)

Daniel

Have you all so easily forgotten?

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,20480.350.html

Walter Ramsey

[pianistimo]

i am not responding to the first post because it would be repetition of already explained 40 days and nights.  well, that's how long it rained.  i forgot how many days after that until dry land.  but, on to john and the wine bit.

ok. as i see it - there is a connection here between chapters 1 and 2 - but only if one is able to do a bit of mind bending.  'all things came into be by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being...in Him was life, and the life was the light of men.'

people find joy in wine - but there's actually more joy and life in the Holy Spirit.  that's why occasionally people would ask disciples (such as hannah in the OT) if they were drunk.  either they were happy or they were sad - but not much in between.  the elements that people think are christian (hiding one's feelings)  might actually not be christian at all.  perhaps God wants to see and hear and feel our feelings with us.  perhaps we shouldn't hide them.  maybe the Spirit prompts us to just let it out.

that said, i've heard that a little bit of wine for one's stomach's sake (and mental) might not be a bad idea.  i suppose that the best wine is the one that one takes at communion since this is literally washing away sins at the same time as giving one a bit of a high.  although at our church we never got more than one little gulp.  i have a feeling the disciples got a glass.  the best wine for this - is premium aged cabernet sauvignon.  maybe 1933 or so.

[pianistimo]

after having had some serious thoughts about these verses - i change my answer to AGE.  the age of the wine matters.  (i hope dnephi doesn't mind that i am copying the answer).  now, if God can make wine age fast - he can make the universe age fast.  there you go -thal.  God made the grand canyon look old when he made it. 

btw, i'm not discrediting the idea that people say dinosaur bones are found under certain amounts of layers of sediment that 'look' a certain age.  but, as i see it - God could dump a ton of dirt by sedimentary means after a worldwide flood.

[thalbergmad]

but, as i see it - God could dump a ton of dirt by sedimentary means after a worldwide flood.

When would you date the dinosaurs then.

3000 BC, 4000BC?

Thal

[pianistimo]

before the flood.  they were tree trimmers.  vegitation nubbers.  maybe called 'behemouth' (land lubber) or 'leviathin' (sea creature). 

[prometheus]

Ah, the creature with the penis and the balls, behemoth.

[pianistimo]

well, now that you mention it.  some dinosaur exibits don't show them.  you kind of wonder 'which is it?'  i mean - children might wonder.  i mean -adults might not know what to say when they ask.  unless the adult asks first. 

[thalbergmad]

Yes, but you fail to answer my question.

WHEN?

Thal

[ramseytheii]

I was going to reprimand ThalbergMad for starting another futile pianitisimo thread, but then I remembered Marx's observation: "Criticism of religion is the origin of all criticism."

Walter Ramsey

[thalbergmad]

Me was just trying to keep it all under one roof, to save the infestation of other threads

I think she deserves her own thread for her wonderful theories.

They are always funny and cheer me up.

Thal

[pianistimo]

funny and cheer you up?  well, ok.

the dinosaurs were named behemoth and leviathin at creation and according to job 40:19 - behemoth was 'the first of the ways of God.'  or perhaps, 'wonders.'  what God is explaining to job are things that he doesn't understand or know about.  if behemoth was simply a hippo - it would not explain the 'power in the muscles of his belly - and he bends his tail like a cedar.  his bones are tubes of bronze; his limbs are like bars of iron.' hippos have fairly small tails and really don't seem to be something God would bother to describe to impress job - if he had already seen them. also, next comes 'surely the MOUNTAINS bring him food (in verse 20).  why would hippos be reaching that high.  he was describing that they feed in great heights.

if the bible is so, how could they live before the world was created to sustain life?  now, another question is 'what made the dinosaur extinct and many other creatures continue to live?'  i don't know.  i believe that possibly they were not considered necessary to life after the flood and were destroyed.  also, i believe that they typically lived in parts of the world that were not yet inhabited by man - to maintain the earth.  to keep it trimmed and growing properly.  when enough population covered the earth - God probably thought 'meh, we don't need them anymore.'  but, they certainly wouldn't have gone extinct on their own unless a catastrophe happened.  we find that animals in alaska that are considered 'prehistoric' - were living in a semi-tropical/tropical climate which had flowers and grass not endemic to the temperatures after the flood.  did the pole shift at the time of the flood?  i don't know.  but, it's an idea.

now, as far as humans living at the same time as dinosaurs -i think it entirely possible.  i believe the idea of 'dragons' - came from this very concept.  and, where else - but across the globe (from the dawn of civilization) would the chinese have been possibly the first ones to discover the 'great dragon' as he was (bones by then).  the mythology behind dragons seems to imply 'fire breathing.'  this is mentioned strangely in job 41:18 'his sneezes flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.  out of his mouth go burning torches; sparks of fire leap forth.  out of his nostrils smoke goes forth, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes.  his breath kindles coals, and a flame goes forth from his mouth...the folds of his flesh are joined together (alligators are similar to the kind of skin the dinosaurs had - reptilian) firm on him and immovable.  his heart is as hard as a stone; even as hard as a lower millstone.  when he raises himself up, the mighty fear, because of the crashing they are bewildered....'

now, why would God bother to describe these early animals to Job - if he'd already seen them?  he was describing 'the first of the ways of God.'  the first kinds of animals before they were extinct.  whether they went extinct before the flood - or during the flood.  surely they were not alive at the time of job - because job would have said 'yes, i know that.'  now, what we have probably been looking for are signs that they dwelt with humans.  humans would have surely drawn them if they had seen them.  do we see any such drawings anywhere - or did God keep them separate - on the other side of the earth and relatively hard to find from where humans existed?  it would be a curious thing to see more than 'mythological animals' that were drawn - and realize some of them could have actually been real.  otherwise - why the descriptions that fit dinosaurs in the bible?

[pianistimo]

another verse of job that jumps out at me - is job 41:32 'one would think the deep to be grey-haired.'  or - older than it seems.  because of how massive these creatures were.

as late as 1600 AD - maps still had dragons drawn in and around the borders.  some very ancient cultures had 'dragon tales.'  why this phenomenon?  what caused them to be drawn seriously on maps near or in the oceans?  merely imagination?

[Bob]

(Wondering if there is a limit on the amount of material in one thread.  Guessing this is one the challenge that limit.)

[thalbergmad]

now, as far as humans living at the same time as dinosaurs -i think it entirely possible. 

Agreed, i saw this in a film with Rachel Welch who was wearing a fur bikini.

Your logic cannot be challenged.

But you have NOT ANSWERD MY QUESTION of WHEN???

When did the dinosaurs first roam the Earth.

Thal

[pianistimo]

maybe as late as the lochness monster!  but, sometimes our theories of where their noses are is off. 

dating, to me, would start at creation and end at various times for various creatures.  possibly at or around the time of the flood and some variously might have been sighted afterwards. 

wasn't there some kind of ancient fish that was caught in china or japan recently that blew people away - because they thought it was extinct for many thousands or millions of years.

question:  was t-rex mainly a scavenger.  recent evidence seems to indicate he/she might have been. 

[soliloquy]

My turn!

Pianistimo, why aren't there any human bones as old as dinosaur bones?


Explain this discrepency on both the forensic and paleontological fronts.

[pianolearner]

My turn!

Pianistimo, why aren't there any human bones as old as dinosaur bones?


Explain this discrepency on both the forensic and paleontological fronts.

That's easy. The dinosaurs ate all the humans around that time and digested their bones.

[pianistimo]

it has been discovered that human dwellings (and tools, btw) were discovered wayyy under the dead sea (preserved by the lack of oxygen and the conditions there.  the layers of sediment would prove to a person studying 'age of the earth' to reveal that these people were living in what we call 'prehistoric' times - although i would simply say 'before the flood.'

there are drawings on a palestrina mosaic as late as 100 AD that show detail of dinosaurs (whether described or seen by them) - on the 'anasazi petroglyph' - also, detailed drawings (how could they possibly know - if noone had access or had seen them) by johann johnston (1693-1775) in 'de serpentis et draconibus.'  also, as mentioned previously- many descriptions of 'dragons' (also dinosaurs?) in china.  i wouldn't doubt there are somekind of drawings of them in canada by ancient civilzations - but for sure there have been finds in peru.  called the 'ica stones' - where dinosaur creatures have been carved into rock for us to find this many years later.  https://www.creationresource.org/Shopping_cart/books/Book_Pages/ica_stone.htm
https://paranormal.about.com/cs/ancientanomalies/a/aa041904.htm

[prometheus]

They also carved their gods on those same stones, right next to those dinosaur.

So they also existed 'before the flood'?

[thalbergmad]

maybe as late as the lochness monster!  but, sometimes our theories of where their noses are is off. 

dating, to me, would start at creation and end at various times for various creatures.  possibly at or around the time of the flood and some variously might have been sighted afterwards. 

wasn't there some kind of ancient fish that was caught in china or japan recently that blew people away - because they thought it was extinct for many thousands or millions of years.

Millions of years, must be rubbish.

WHEN, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN, ANSWER ME.

When did the first dinosaurs first roam the earth.

Thal

[pianistimo]

at creation.  approx. 6000 years ago.  if God can make anything appear as He wants - and he makes the 'deep appear grey-haired' - then created things could appear older than they are. 

there are several dillemas for scientists.  one is simply things on this earth - and the other are space dillemas.  for instance, only 200 or so detected (at least from what i read) supernova's are detected as having been and then breaking up.  they take a long time to break up.  if creation is millions of years old - why are there not a lot more supernova remnants?

[rach n bach]

there are several dillemas for scientists.  one is simply things on this earth - and the other are space dillemas.  for instance, only 200 or so detected (at least from what i read) supernova's are detected as having been and then breaking up.  they take a long time to break up.  if creation is millions of years old - why are there not a lot more supernova remnants?

The strange thing is that these nebule cannot compact down under their own gravity to form new starts as is commonly believed.  Think about it... gasses don't like to be compacted any more than they have to be... and as you increase the density of the big ball of gas and dust (i.e. nebule) then the ball is gonna want to expand outwards more... not collapse in.

[pianistimo]

thanks, rach n bach.  i've read also that remnants take a long time to disintegrate - as you say - moving slowly outward. 

[thalbergmad]

at creation.  approx. 6000 years ago. ?

Is that for the Earth, or the Universe?

Thal

[jakev2.0]

FACT: the earth is at least 4.5 billion years old.

Next?

[pianistimo]

prove it.  how come our sun is still doing it's fusion thingy.  it's not the largest star out there.  in fact - it's a rather small star comparitavely.  and if the earth is so old - why did we not come to this carbon emissions problem much much sooner?

and, how come there is MORE carbon in the air today than there was at the time of the dinosaurs.  and, if we are millions (not even billions) of years old - how to prove it?  carbon-14 dating only works back a few thousand years - after that  - it's entirely dependent upon the amount of carbon in the atmosphere - (which has been proven to be much different).

if the earth was MILLIONS -everything would be desert/burned up/no earth at all.  the sun would have reached it's hottest long ago - and there would BE NO AMAZON.

or pennsylvania.  or for that matter - poles with ice.  it would have melted and left us with no life at all - drowned - much land under water.

[ahinton]

I have a random one pianistimo:

What makes wine good?

Good quality water, according to pianistimo, one assumes (and, of course, an adept turner of the one into the other).

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

40 days and nights.  well, that's how long it rained.

No wonder Blake wrote about Jerusalem being "builded here / in England's green unpleasant land" (well, that was almost what he wrote)...

people find joy in wine - but there's actually more joy and life in the Holy Spirit.

OK, so some people prefer spirits to wine, others enjoy neither and others again enjoy both.

that said, i've heard that a little bit of wine for one's stomach's sake (and mental) might not be a bad idea.  i suppose that the best wine is the one that one takes at communion since this is literally washing away sins at the same time as giving one a bit of a high.  although at our church we never got more than one little gulp.  i have a feeling the disciples got a glass.  the best wine for this - is premium aged cabernet sauvignon.  maybe 1933 or so.

The average communion wine is enough to put some people off the taking of both wine and communion...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

after having had some serious thoughts about these verses - i change my answer to AGE.  the age of the wine matters.  (i hope dnephi doesn't mind that i am copying the answer).  now, if God can make wine age fast - he can make the universe age fast.  there you go -thal.  God made the grand canyon look old when he made it.

Perhaps He did the same for (or rather to) me. Seriously, though, this is nonsense, the only redeeming word within which is "if". God doesn't age wine and, in any case, some wine ages very differently to other wine; only the very great wines can hope to continue to develop over decades and even these will eventually deteriorate, for every serious wine with potential inherent longevity will reach a qualitative peak at some point and then fall away from it.

btw, i'm not discrediting the idea that people say dinosaur bones are found under certain amounts of layers of sediment that 'look' a certain age.  but, as i see it - God could dump a ton of dirt by sedimentary means after a worldwide flood.

The more you tell me about your God, the less appealing - and, indeed, the less credible - He becomes; why would God do such a thing as you suggest here, thereby wreaking havoc and damage upon what was supposedly His own creation?...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

prove it.  how come our sun is still doing it's fusion thingy.  it's not the largest star out there.  in fact - it's a rather small star comparitavely.  and if the earth is so old - why did we not come to this carbon emissions problem much much sooner?

and, how come there is MORE carbon in the air today than there was at the time of the dinosaurs.  and, if we are millions (not even billions) of years old - how to prove it?  carbon-14 dating only works back a few thousand years - after that  - it's entirely dependent upon the amount of carbon in the atmosphere - (which has been proven to be much different).

if the earth was MILLIONS -everything would be desert/burned up/no earth at all.  the sun would have reached it's hottest long ago - and there would BE NO AMAZON.

or pennsylvania.  or for that matter - poles with ice.  it would have melted and left us with no life at all - drowned - much land under water.

In order to understand why, you need to get your head out of your silly little book and get an education.

If you move outside of your extremely limited comfort zone, you will enlightened.

Thal

[jakev2.0]

prove it.  how come our sun is still doing it's fusion thingy.  it's not the largest star out there.  in fact - it's a rather small star comparitavely.

Because our sun is young. It's only about half-way through its stellar evolution. Findings in cosmochronology (i.e., assessing abundance of of uranium/thorium nuclides) corroborate the notion that the Sun is over 4.5 billion years old. Btw, the half-lives of the two above elements are somewhere on the order of billions of years, depending upon the isotope you're looking at.

and, if we are millions (not even billions) of years old - how to prove it?  carbon-14 dating only works back a few thousand years - after that  - it's entirely dependent upon the amount of carbon in the atmosphere - (which has been proven to be much different).

Carbon-14 decay can accurately judge the age of organic material that is around 60,000 years old. A bit more than "a few thousand".

if the earth was MILLIONS -everything would be desert/burned up/no earth at all.  the sun would have reached it's hottest long ago - and there would BE NO AMAZON

what!??!?!!

or pennsylvania.  or for that matter - poles with ice.  it would have melted and left us with no life at all - drowned - much land under water.

Why do I even bother.

[retrouvailles]

Why do you guys even bother? She will never concede defeat with her theories. She is just to staunch of a Christian. Just let her be with her "theories".

pianistimo, denial is not just a river in Egypt you know.

[jakev2.0]

I want to start a religion whose central tenet is the belief that pi is exactly 3. I'm sure I'll find no shortage of stupid/credulous people to believe me.

[dnephi]

Why don't you find some experimental verification for any value of pi?  It still won't equal the platonic pi, for two reasons. 

1. Non-Euclidean Space
2. Experimental Error

Besides, Pi was declared to be exactly 4 by the State of Indiana, way back when. 

The law has been repealed.

[thalbergmad]

Why do I even bother.

Coz it's fun

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I want to start a religion whose central tenet is the belief that pi is exactly 3. I'm sure I'll find no shortage of stupid/credulous people to believe me.

I think I mentioned this somewhere before. Towards the end of the 19th century an American state - I think it was Indiana - attempted to place a decree on the statue book that pi was exactly 4.

[prometheus]

Grand canyon, formed by the violent waters of the global flood.


This gives a lot of the point as to why the whole flood/Noah story is stupid:

[pianistimo]

the grand canyon couldn't be carved by a very small river of water.  and, you can trace the path of least resistance - when there was a huge amount of water.  what does this tell you?  that no water was involved?  the river suddenly became huge (by a combination of the ocean floors letting up 'fountains' from the deep and massive downpours of rain) with pressure and a massive amount of dirt and rock being carried with it.  usually the way rocks are degraded is either by massive earthquake, volcano, or flood (which the canyon floor could have cracked from earthquake- and pieces of it separated - so i believe all three happened) - but what caused the tiering?  the erosion wasn't simply wind - to have it end up looking the way it does today.  the most amount of water pressure would be highest up.  that is where there is the most amount of rock that was carried away.  otherwise - the canyon would be steep gorges that are straight down and fairly close together (according to the cracks you see - type california - earthquake faults).

secondly, God was very patient and it was not his first intention to flood the earth.  this man starts off with a wrong premise.  God wanted to flood the earth.  NO.  he didn't want to. it grieved his heart.  in fact, He waited for 100 years!  genesis 5:32 says noah was 500 - when he had his sons and began work on the ark.  genesis 6:10 was the same time that noah was 'commissioned' and God wanted him to be an example or witness to the people around him.  but, they laughed.  they didn't believe. 

so, noah had basically 100 years to deal with all these so called 'problems.' but, think of it - building the ark was not a smple job.  as mentioned, it had to not only be watertight - but able to handle bumps and scratches of a very high probability during the first very violent part of the flood.  in fact, that it was able to come through the flood was a miracle in itself - no matter how well it was built. 

now, another matter which makes me think this man didn't even bother to read the biblical account - is that only the unclean animals went in 'two by two.'  the clean (edible animals) went in by sevens.  seven pairs - if you read hebrew.  why?  because they needed to sustain their population at the same time as being used for food after the flood by noah and his family and the human population to come.  as well, as natural predators.

one matter, that seems obvious, too - is that this man is criticizing what didn't even happen.  'if people went and gathered the animals...'  the fact of the story is - they didn't.  so why blab about that for awhile?  God had 100 years to bring animals from every part - although sloths didn't have to live in brazil at that time.  if the earth was still one continent (as one continent people like to believe - and perhaps has something to do with the idea of peleg and the'earth dividing' - at the time of the tower of babel - after human migration to different areas) - then the animals would not have had to travel over water.  they merely walked or flew from A to B as God directed them to migrate.  how far a sloth can migrate in a period of time before dying - is certainly a good question.  but, not impossible for God.  why?  because God could simply make a sloth appear out of nowhere and stick it on the ark.  but, He did it the long way.  the sloth made a slothful move every day towards the ark.  laugh if you must. 

but, in gen 7:6 - it says 'now noah was six hundred years old when the flood of water came upon the earth.  if the sloth wasn't terribly far - noah could have carried him the last two feet.  (or 300 miles).  perhaps he did a 'last roundup?'  anyways - enoch was carried away in a whirlwind - what would stop God from doing the last roundup himself?    i don't know any more details than what is in the bible.  as i see it - there are no facts with evolution.  the bible is fact.  the more you read it - the more you see that God can do pretty much whatever He wants.  there is an element of 'freedom' in His ability to create and design and do.  He is God.

evolution would say - flood.  meh.  but, it doesn't account for recent findings with human migration according to mtDNA.  we've traced back to eve of noah's flood (noah's wife) and the age of the earth is still young. 

also, what accounts for strange artifacts from one area - being plopped down in a very strange other area of the world.  animals, artifacts, etc. - some extremely heavy.  like obelisks from alexandria ending up in waters near greece.  recently some were transported back to alexandria (that were TONS).

there is a layer of sediment - completely around the world - that proves the flood happened.  as the water settled into various places - it formed seas.  the black sea is obviously a result of a flood.  and, what would account for salt mines being found in the midst of dry areas such as africa and other places?  where did these massive amounts of salt come from?

lastly, but rather only because i am tired - there are various settlements that archeologists uncover from periods before the flood (neolithic) - but, that do not appear elsewhere on earth dated this far back in the same manner of building?  why?  maybe because God created mankind at eden which is most likely the mouth of the rivers of iraq - where they converged.  this piece of archeological research was uncovered in turkey:
https://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=54909

[thalbergmad]

Sorry, i can't bring myself to read that, as i am having a conversation with a tree.

Maybe tomorrow.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

lastly, but rather only because i am tired

Would hate to see what you are capable of when wide awake.

Thal

[pianistimo]

we have lots of trees in pennsylvania in case you run out over there.  people plant trees right and left.  it's a sort of 11th commandment here.  plant a tree.  i think william penn started it.  unfortunately - you can't see around corners here.

i am capable of getting into a lot of trouble when wide awake.  fortunately i am tired 90% of the time.  today because the heat was 92 degrees.  i am most awake in very very cold environments.

[thalbergmad]

fortunately i am tired 90% of the time. 

Well, if you reduced your million words per day on here, you might not be so tired.

Thal

[mephisto]

Is it just me who thinks that pianistimo really is Marge from The Simpsons?

[dnephi]

I think I mentioned this somewhere before. Towards the end of the 19th century an American state - I think it was Indiana - attempted to place a decree on the statue book that pi was exactly 4.

I think I mentioned this somewhere before. Towards the end of the 19th century an American state - I think it was Indiana - attempted to place a decree on the statue book that pi was exactly 4.

Sorry, but I beat you to it.

Best Wishes,

Dan

[pianistimo]

how can pianists -which purposely choose an instrument with infinities of possiblities suddenly be satisfied with pi being 4. that is cause for war.  these people are idiots.  everyone knows pi has to stretch out infinately.  pi is an unreal number.  4 is real.  it's also even.  how can a circle be even?  only a square.  pies are never square. (excepting in pa - but don't tell anyone).

marge simpson?  ok.  i kind of look like that when i have a towel wrapped around my head and muttering about why the kids don't pick up their messes.

[dnephi]

Pi is a real number.  It is just not rational.

Dan

[pianistimo]

oops.  that's what i meant.  ok.  although we can only approximate pi in the real world.

you know - the simple mozart fantasy in D minor has a sort of mathematic feel of pi.  it can be interpreted many ways - and yet stays constant.  it's like defying gravity or something.

[counterpoint]

how can pianists -which purposely choose an instrument with infinities of possiblities suddenly be satisfied with pi being 4

Concrete, it was 3.2

Here more infos about this case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill



But now to for the practical issue:

if you set Pi to 3.14, that's enough for most allday uses.
A circle with a diameter of 1 meter has a circumference of 3.14 meters