who do you think composed the hardest piano concerto?

[amelialw]

who do you think composed the hardest piano concerto?

-Haydn
-Mozart
-Beethoven
-Chopin
-Schumann
-Mendelssohn
-Brahms
-Rachmaninoff
-Grieg
-Bartok
-Tchaikovsky
-Liszt

[dnephi]

Probably Finissey, I'd wager.

[mikey6]

Clearly define hard and I'll think about answering.

[jlh]

I think a lot more can go wrong with Mozart than some others on that list.

[Etude]

I concur with dnephi, having seen a small part of Finnissy's fourth concerto.

[retrouvailles]

Messiaen's works for piano and (small) orchestra are among the hardest I have seen or heard. I wouldn't count the Finnissy concertos, for they are for solo piano or a chamber ensemble. Also, they are difficult purely from a technical point of view. The Messiaen pieces are hard in every aspect (technically, musically, etc).

[jacobwynn]

I think a lot more can go wrong with Mozart than some others on that list.

Exactly! Before I read your post I also was going to nominate Mozart where so much is left unsaid in the score and where the pianist is so exposed. This in contrast to Rachmaninov 3 (difficult because of stamina, lots o' notes, etc) which is a fail-safe concerto because mistakes are covered by the mush.
But Mozart? Difficult beyond belief!

[amelialw]

the same goes for me, Mozart did compose really hard piano concertos. Brahms Concerto No. 2 is one of the hardest piano concerto's ever though.

[dnephi]

You guys must not have looked at Finissey's :p

[retrouvailles]

You guys must not have looked at Finissey's :p

You must have not looked at my post.

[dnephi]

You must have not looked at my post.

You're right.  I'm sorry.  I think that's right, although I'm not sure exactly how technically difficult the messiaen works are.

[thalbergmad]

Henselt possibly

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Good nomination. I seem to recall that Anton Rubinstein pronounced it unplayable. I was going to suggest the Busoni. I've not seen the scores for some of the more modernist concerti, so I won't attempt to pass judgement on their respective difficulties.

[retrouvailles]

I think this question is one that cannot be answered, even though some modernist works are almost unplayable (ie Finnissy, Messiaen, etc). They have their own difficulties. The more difficult romantic concertos, such as the Henselt F minor, also have their own difficulties. Even "simpler" concertos, such as the Mozarts, have their own. Sometimes, when you are playing something "simpler", it is harder to mask your techincal slip-ups than when you play, lets say, Messiaen's Oiseaux Exotiques. The sheer volume of notes and lack of inherent tonality are enough to cover up slip-ups, whereas, in the Mozart, everything is left out in the open, per sé.

[mikey6]

I think this question is one that cannot be answered, even though some modernist works are almost unplayable (ie Finnissy, Messiaen, etc). They have their own difficulties. The more difficult romantic concertos, such as the Henselt F minor, also have their own difficulties. Even "simpler" concertos, such as the Mozarts, have their own. Sometimes, when you are playing something "simpler", it is harder to mask your techincal slip-ups than when you play, lets say, Messiaen's Oiseaux Exotiques. The sheer volume of notes and lack of inherent tonality are enough to cover up slip0ups, whereas, in the Mozart, everything is left out in the open, per sé.

Although I agree, I've given up on this sort of reasoning coz these threads seem to keep popping up, even though there cannot possibly be an answer.
So to contradict that statement, where is Prokofiev? Every pianist has nightmares about the cadenza in the second concerto.

[phil13]

*bangs head against wall*




















 

Phil

[jacobwynn]

Prokofiev? Every pianist has nightmares about the cadenza in the second concerto.

Quite true.

Angela Hewitt put it well during an interview at the time of the Henry Wood Proms:

"This concerto is best played when you are young and fearless".

[retrouvailles]

I personally think we should put these silly topics to rest.

[amelialw]

but there is a concerto that's the hardest of all...!!

[dnephi]

Yes!  There is!  It's the CPE Bach Concerto for ZL*W pianist

[retrouvailles]

but there is a concerto that's the hardest of all...!!

I personally think the Messiaen works are it. Just take a look at this one:

And they get harder than that. But this question cannot be answered with one simple answer.

[amelialw]

-

[retrouvailles]

Here is another, more difficult (and weirder) one:

&mode=related&search=

[dnephi]

No offense, but first hearing makes that sound like birds on drugs...

His birds catalogues are intriguing.

[retrouvailles]

It sounds like its "on drugs' because in addition to transcribing the sounds of birds, he integrated Hindu rhythms and his modal ideas into this, creating a wonderful, unique, and extremely difficult masterpiece.

[jakev2.0]

What a piece of crap. It literally makes me sick to listen to.

[retrouvailles]

What a piece of crap.

What, your face? I agree.

[jakev2.0]

My faeces could compose better music.

[retrouvailles]

My faeces could compose better music.

Let's not start with this again...

I'm just gonna ignore you.

[jakev2.0]

I think I came up with a new ranking scale for composers

10 - Bach (greatest composer)
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2 - Jakev2.0
1 - Messiaen
0 - Xenakis (worst composer)

[dnephi]

Oh come on, jake.  Haven't you heard some Crumb Black Angels?  You'd probably rank that -1.

[phil13]

Let's go back to where this problem started...

What a piece of crap. It literally makes me sick to listen to.

As far as I can tell, this thread has nothing to do with what anybody personally thinks of ANY composer, so quit trying to stir up sh!t and maybe try answering the question.

Which brings me to the original problem....

who do you think composed the hardest piano concerto?

-Haydn
-Mozart
-Beethoven
-Chopin
-Schumann
-Mendelssohn
-Brahms
-Rachmaninoff
-Grieg
-Bartok
-Tchaikovsky
-Liszt

I'm sorry, but you're not going to get any response worth noting. Everyone will have a different opinion based upon two things: 1. what they define as 'hard' and 2. how much of the modern and obscure repertoire they have been exposed to. Thus, you will get some posters with informed answers, and some with misinformed answers. Each of them take sides, and both sides will think the other side has no idea what they're talking about. Then the battle ensues.

You can see why people such as myself who have been visiting this forum for a while now can get verrrrrrrrrrrry irritated with these types of threads and the members who start them.

Phil

[sevencircles]

Xenakis (worst composer)

I disagree 100 % he was one of the most original composers ever

I don´t like what he did for piano but Metastasis and some of the orchestral works are milestones

Not for everyone but very important in the history of music

[mephisto]

I think I came up with a new ranking scale for composers

10 - Bach (greatest composer)
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2 - Jakev2.0
1 - Messiaen
0 - Xenakis (worst composer)

Jake just listen to Messiaen's early pieces. They sound like Debussy I am sure you will like it. His bird-pieces are his most bizzare works, and are only liked by his deepest fans.

[retrouvailles]

Jake just listen to Messiaen's early pieces. They sound like Debussy I am sure you will like it. His bird-pieces are his most bizzare works, and are only liked by his deepest fans.

Jake is beyond help on this matter due to his stubbornness. No use in trying, really.