Is it better to have loved and lost or never loed at all???

[fiddes]

Someone quoted this to me this morning and it got me wondering if you have loved and lost then you know what your missing and there is alot more heart ache then if u had never found that special connection and in turn go through life without knowing what its like to just wake up and feel completly content with life what do you think?

btw if this is confusing please tell me and i will try my best to explain (if i can)

[wishful thinker]

It is certainly a very old saying "tis better to have loved and lost, than ne'er to have loved at all".

I don't think that it is meant to mean that it is better to have been in love at some time, even though you lost that love, than to never to have know love - i.e. the focus being on the emotion of love.

Rather, it is the person that you have loved.  Imagine your Grandma (for instance). It is better to have know her and lost her (as you would) than to never have had her in your life at all.  So in this sense, I thnk that yes, it is true.

[bench warmer]

Depends.....Humans have the ability to think and act rationally, yet often act irrationally, like drinking too much alcohol and paying for it the next day with an immense hangover but repeating the the drinking cycle again & again.

So, Pain or the threat of pain doesn't always hinder somebody from enjoying the moment.

Same w/ falling in (romantic love is what I assume you're talking about here) love w/someone. You run the risk of pain after you lose the person you were in love with.  Romantic love is fairly irrational but it doesn't seem to stop us from wanting to and experiencing it even with the potential painful consequences.

You ever hear the story about the guy who kept hitting himself in the head w/a brick?

Said he did it 'cause it felt so good when he stopped.

[counterpoint]

Someone quoted this to me this morning and it got me wondering if you have loved and lost then you know what your missing and there is alot more heart ache then if u had never found that special connection and in turn go through life without knowing what its like to just wake up and feel completly content with life what do you think?

btw if this is confusing please tell me and i will try my best to explain (if i can)

You can't choose if you fall in love or not.
If it happens, then it happens. You will be happy like crazy for some time. Then the disaster will come over you. I tell you, that's not funny 

[wishful thinker]

I don't think that it needs to be romantic love, but the idea is the same; would you really wish never to have know that person/ had those feelings towards him or her, by virtue of the fact that you can't experience it now?  I think not.

BTW, this expression is usually used, in my experience, in reference to situations where the loved one has died; through war, disease, accident etc.

[pianistimo]

as i see it - nobody can lose in love.  there is no loss.  it's just in your imagination.

love = unconditional giving.  you don't own anybody.  so if they leave - they still took some love with them.  that was a gift.

[fiddes]

thats quite a good way of looking at it in theory but in reality it is human nature to give and expect to receive when you love some1 and they love you back you are giving and recieving when that ends their is still the give but none of the recieve that is the pain you feel and that is y i beleive it is easier to never have loved at all

[pianistimo]

what did you expect to receive?  maybe they will come back when they feel it is entirely their decision and not something you consciously expect.  sometimes women/men don't even know exactly WHAT they feel - and need time to sort it out.

everyone gets hurt at sometime or other - but the easiest thing is to say 'it's all their fault that i feel badly.'  but, when you get older - you realize that the only one that hurts yourself is yourself. 

keep your chin up.  as someone told me when i was feeling low one day - 'this is just one moment in time.'   (interpretation - not all moments are going to feel this bad).

[fiddes]

you expect to recieve the love you give recipricated and i guess your right (the whole post)

btw this was a discussoin in a large circle, i dont get upset becuase everything happens in life for a reason!!!!!

[pianistimo]

i am celebrating 22 years of marriage on june23rd.  a week before this - he is leaving for a 2 days stint (one day a ballgame and the other a business meeting).  considering his age - i will let him do it.   

[pianowolfi]

Lol Pianistimo Anyway, I think both of you, pianistimo and fiddes, are right. The idea of unconditional love is very comforting but also very challenging to me. And fiddes, I think, if somebody is actually so mature that he can give unconditional love, he will for sure get something "back" from others, but then it seems not a causal connection to me, but a free connection, so to say. You don't expect something, but you will get something "back" because others may love you also, unconditionally. There are quite a few persons on this world, after all. As for "romantic" love, is there something else at all? I didn't know that, lol. For instance pianistimo's petals. Very romantic.

But okay, love is a very serious word and one that might not be used at any opportunity. Imagine someone claiming: "I love you unconditionally!" I think most of the times it will be just a matter of time until he/ she is proven wrong. It's not easy. And sometimes certain people claim loudly: " I would do everything for my friends/husband/wife." Well...This is just a bit frivoulous, I think. I mean, would these persons actually burn alive for somebody else? Or being killed for somebody else? Are you always aware of what you are saying?

But okay, I think after all, that in a society who is actually based on the thought of unconditional love, everything is mutual, in a certain sense. So you could maybe actually "turn your other cheek" because the one who has slapped you will stop slapping. It's a matter of trust also. If all people can trust each other, where is the loss, then? just a few thoughts.

[pianistimo]

understood.  i just finished watching a couple of highschool girls in a catfight on tv.  one had about 5 staples from a staplegun to the head.  i don't think she felt any sort of 'unconditional love' at that point.  but, it's a matter of stamina.

does anyone have any old love letters they wish to share?  i saved a bunch of mine - but i'm not sure if i should divulge them.  my husband sent me a stack of stationary and i used all but the last page the first time i wrote him.  i didn't want to sound so forward - or then simply blase  - so then i tried to find a happy medium.  my mom came into my room and there were wadded up pieces of paper all over the floor.  i told her i was on the last page and it had to be right - because then, he'd think i didn't appreciate the stationary and sent it to someone else. 

[pianistimo]

this was before the stationary episode. 

dec. 22, 1984

'hello.  i hope that you are prepared for another 'whirlwind' transposition.  after looking the music over - i decided it would be best to use a smaller pen.  it might be cleaner.  thank you for sending the score paper.  i can always use it!  i doodle a lot around here and rarely have enough to do 12-15 pages of music.  if you put in a little extra next time, i'll compose a song for you.

my bro called last friday and confirmed your report that he is still going to college.  he talks a lot about mayfair dorm (it's a girls dorm, i take it).  i guess i miss my bro.  he used to listen to all my problems and make fun of me...but he could be trusted not to tell anyone else.  now i have to keep all my problems to myself and vent my frustrations on my piano. 

well, i don't know how i got off an all this sentimentality.  your AA (AA stands for Alaskan accompanist, not anonymous accompanist, or alcoholic accompanist)  susan

[pianistimo]

this is right before he sent me a ticket to come and visit him:

dear john,

hello again.  thanks for the phone call.  it makes me think you're real.  'real' as in nyphomaniac.  you're kind of fun to flirt with --but we're not married so i don't think the edible bikini part is possible at this moment.

you like bosendorfer pianos?  well that makes two of us. 

since the last time you were here and commented on how you like things neat - i've been organizing everything. 

well, i have been thinking about you and all the things i like about you.  please don't worry that i think too much, too little, date too many, too few men, think about your faults, assets, worry about enslavement, marriage, bondage.  all of the above, none of the above.  i just like you as a person, a sexy man, and a friend.  in the order of sexy man, friend, person.  yours truly, susan

[pianistimo]

dear john,

'you ask what sexy means.  ok.  sexy is like zubin mehta.  the way he half closes his eyes and manipulates his lips when he's conducting a piece like 'bolero.'  also, you can almost smell him, with the way the sweat drips off his face.  now, i'm sure that if you were conducting bolero, i would love it too....'

'ok.  i may as well tell you several things that turn me on - men, such as you , that have an impish boyishness.  sensitive.  someone who can understand the five senses and not overlook any of them.  i like men who smell nice, look good, feel muscly, like classical music, and good food.  anything else you'll have to address specifically.

well, don't bother twisting my arm - here's my phone number ********.  call me anytime.  i am usually here in the mornings on mon wed fri - and evenings after 10 pm.  (i think this letter came before the one above).

[opus10no2]

Life is all about loving and losing.

Would I rather have no family so I would never have to mourn their loss or vice versa?
Of course not,

You have to live while you're alive  (bon jovi quote, legendary I know)

[fiddes]

i would love to put my love letters from my ex ex on here but they go something like this

Dear sexy,

i want to (Blank) your (Blank) (BLank)

it goes on like that for a while, i ended it when i found out she had photocopied the letter and had sent it to about a dozen different people lol

[pianistimo]

i want to blank your blank blank?  women always like to know ways they can improve their letter writing skills when single.  ponders, as bob does other mundane things - hmm. i want to blank your blank blank.  this is like a gameshow.   

[fiddes]

lol it because i refuse to use obscene language on here, this isnt secondary school

[pianistimo]

tries to think of the last time i used obscene language on my husband.  do men really like that?  i want to blank your blank blank.  maybe i'll just use the default mode and let him fill it in himself.  *thinks about sending this kind of e-mail today to see if he even knows who is talking to him. 

you know, you have just given me a great idea. 

[fiddes]

haha would be quite funny sending a fill in the blanks dirty letter lol

[pianistimo]

women think obscenely different than men.  it would have to start with breakfast in bed with some silver and flowers around.  that is why women often need a drink to imitate whatever it is they think their husband wants to hear - but what they normally wouldn't say or do.  i think a degree of coaching is sort of necessary - otherwise, it's bound to be a bit less exciting than what both had in mind in their fantasies.

maybe that is why people lose at love.  they don't think obscenely enough.  i mean - if you really love one person - you should attempt to fulfill their dreams.  but, is it ever enough?  do men ever get every last fantasy fulfilled.  and, why are my fantasies to do with a clean bedroom and flowers and things smelling and looking nice.  it's like the last thing on my husband's mind - although i have recently trained him to bring his laundry hamper downstairs.  to me, this is a romantic gesture.

an obscenely clean house.  that's my latest fantasy.  it happens all by itself.  everyone suddenly decides that they must clean something.

ps i think lapdancing is an extreme sort of sport.  you have to have a lot of leg muscles.  is there training for this, too.  i mean - if a man wants something or other he should give his girlfriend/wife - a free class in it. you can't just say 'i want this'- and expect it to happen.  men don't realize how ridiculous half their ideas are.

[fiddes]

You have a poitn there in the fact that males and females are such different creatures it is impossible for them to be 100% compatiable

i guess though the differance between failed relationships and succesful ones is how hard you work on making those differences so small they dont matter

[pianistimo]

yes.  for a woman, intimacy is how much attention you get during the day.  phone calls, e-mails, flowers, notes - this is really a sort of secret to getting what you want.  perhaps for men -it is doing risky things like sending a semi-obscene e-mail.  you see - this is not typically what a woman or man does or thinks first during the day.  but, if it became a sort of habit - then there might be a repercussive roll to it.  must try the e-mails today.  i'm still teed that he's planning to go to a ballgame in new jersey right after the kids are out of school.  spending the night at a hotel and then going to a meeting the next day.  all the guys at work are doing this (excepting any women that are going to the game and meeting too).  i'm just a bit teed about it - but, i said - fair is fair - i'm going on a vacation with my aunt (but i'd rather go with him - i'm just mad).

[fiddes]

i learnt long ago about the calls texts and e-mails and even 19 months (i know not a huge amount of time compared to you and yours but im only 21) into the relationship im still sending 20/30 texts/ e-mails a day to her and calling for at least an hour a day (only get to see each other weekends we live to far apart for anything else

[pianistimo]

i take it - this is a new one?  or you were dating two women at the same time and only lost one?  in any case - i think you're doing a good job.  what i mean - is that you are spending time communicating. 

my husband and i usually communicate well - excepting when one of us is mad at the other.

[fiddes]

yea this is a new one the onld one was whn i was 18 never cheated never will and yup communication is important lol even when its a quick good morning

[pianistimo]

i'm waiting for his reply.  i asked him to fill in what he thought i would say - and what he would say.  then, we can compare notes and see if we are on the same page.

fiddes, you just saved my marriage.  we are now e-mailing obscenities back and forth to one another.  i knew it was something simple.

[fiddes]

haha glad i could be of assistance 

[pianistimo]

they're nice obscenities.  i mean - we don't typically reduce each other to objects - but i guess in this case - my husband doesn't care.  ?!  now, if i were to give a list of 'honey, can you do this...' i wouldn't hear anything back.  from now on, i shall start all my e-mails this new way.  perhaps i will try some new languages.  perhaps french.