Species Counterpoint

[mcgillcomposer]

Greetings everyone,

I've just been assigned a TA post for a year-long counterpoint class that covers everything up to, but not including, fugue. I thought it might be interesting to practise using all of you as my subjects (no pun intended...oh ya...not including fugue...I forgot!)  muahahahaha.

This situation has an advantage for both parties.

For me: I will be able to practise the correcting side of things rather than the writing side (I have done A LOT of that already).

For you: You might pick-up some interesting things about counterpoint from a craftsmanship point of view.

So, for any who are interested, here is the first assignment:

Using the following cantus firmus, write 4 different 1st species (note against note) lines (2 above and 2 below):

C up D up E up G up A down F down E down D down C

N.B. You can transpose this to any key, but your lines must fall within a vocal range that you will indicate on your response (e.g. barritone and alto). Also, we are not only aiming for "correct" lines, but also for GOOD ones. Your responses may be tonal or modal.

[pianistimo]

what are the rules for modal.  there are none?  it's been so long - i pick modal.  now, what mode do you think these notes belong in?

next question.  probably stupid - but can you remind me what first species is?  you say 'note against note.'  do you mean - some kind of non-syncopated thing.  all half-notes or quarter notes pitted against each other in march time?

[mcgillcomposer]

what are the rules for modal.  there are none?  it's been so long - i pick modal.  now, what mode do you think these notes belong in?

next question.  probably stupid - but can you remind me what first species is?  you say 'note against note.'  do you mean - some kind of non-syncopated thing.  all half-notes or quarter notes pitted against each other in march time?

The rules for modal are the same as for tonal...it's just often easy to avoid problems of diminished fifths and what not with a modal answer. No syncopation...strictly note-against-note writing...so yes, half-note against half-note for example.

[pianistimo]

ok ANSWER #1

here it goes:  C G# D F#, D A C# G, E A C E, G A B F, A B D E, F A C A, E A D A , D A# Eb A, C A C A  (it is not without unreason that i end with caca).

[mcgillcomposer]

ok

here it goes:  C G# D F#, D A C# G, E A C E, G A B F, A B D E, F A C A, E A D A , D A# Eb A, C A C A  (it is not without unreason that i end with caca).

Uhm...the cantus firums is 9 notes long...you gave me segments of 4 notes???

[mcgillcomposer]

Just to be clear...the cantus is ONE contiunous line

C D E G A F E D C with A as the climax.

[pianistimo]

the first of my groups of notes is the cantus firmus or baritone line.  i did this in closed chordal position - so the notes are fairly close to one another (vs open chordal structure).  i forgot to add a # to the A in the third chord.

ABDE is my climax.

[pianistimo]

here's another one:  ANSWER #2

CGEC (top notes move down by seconds as bass moves up until the climax - after the climax - the notes move farther apart - treble going up to several octaves above mid-C).

D B G B, E A C# A, G B D G, A C# E A (climax),  F C D A, E A E C#, D B G D, C C G E

[pianistimo]

another one:  ANSWER #3

the top notes go down (after the B) twice in a row and then gradually move up:

C A E B, D A F# B, E A G B, G C D F#(down from B), A C D E (down from F#), F B D G (up), E A D B,  D A F# B, C G E C

climax is a cluster of CDE together with A only three notes below. 

[mcgillcomposer]

another one:  ANSWER #3

the top notes go down (after the B) twice in a row and then gradually move up:

C A E B, D A F# B, E A G B, G C D F#(down from B), A C D E (down from F#), F B D G (up), E A D B,  D A F# B, C G E C

climax is a cluster of CDE together with A only three notes below. 

There should only be two notes on each attack...counterpoint, not harmony

2-voice counterpoint to start

Your response should consist of 9 notes...no more, no less...

[pianistimo]

you said 'two above and two below.'  that confused me.  ok i'll do two notes.  basically, just split the answers in half  (two notes for bass and tenor area - and two ntoes for alto and sop.

minor changes to answer #3 for final answer:

tenor line = A A A A C B A A A

*have you seen charles peters and paul yoder's 'master theory.'  i'm working book 5 right now.  forgotten so much stuff.  anyways - it seems that counterpoint and harmony work somewhat hand in hand.  especially when note against note.  after all -if you didn't want harmony - you would only ask for rhythms in ta ta language.

[mcgillcomposer]

you said 'two above and two below.'  that confused me.  ok i'll do two notes.  basically, just split the answers in half  (two notes for bass and tenor area - and two ntoes for alto and sop.

minor changes to answer #3 for final answer:

tenor line = A A A A C B A A A

*have you seen charles peters and paul yoder's 'master theory.'  i'm working book 5 right now.  forgotten so much stuff.  anyways - it seems that counterpoint and harmony work somewhat hand in hand.  especially when note against note.  after all -if you didn't want harmony - you would only ask for rhythms in ta ta language.

There is a point at which harmony and counterpoint come together. You are right in that counterpoint and harmony are joined at all stages, but it is useless to talk about the connection until one is able to write good contrapuntal lines that work together.

[mcgillcomposer]

Don't try anything fancy yet. There are a few strange harmonies in you answers which have no consequence. Think of it as a VERY short composition; there is no time to work out any fancy details. Also, avoid repeated notes for the following reasons:

1) They constitute a motive, which is out of place for such a short exercise.
2) They take away from the independent quality of the line.

We are aiming for independent lines that could stand musically on their own, but also work together within the framework.

Just try ONE exercise above the given cantus firmus for now. 9 notes are given...just write 9 more (within a tonal or modal framework) that serve as a counterpoint to the cantus.

[pianistimo]

question?  do you normally start with the soprano line in contrast?  or do you take the alto.  usually not the tenor, right?

sop = (answer #2) C B A G A A C# D E   

perhaps changing the second A to B?

[mcgillcomposer]

Perhpas if I begin with an example it might help:

Example of a line BELOW the cantus:

Cantus...starting on middle C (alto part) :   C up D up E up G up A dwn F dwn E dwn D dwn C
My ctpt starting an octave bellow (bass):    C dwn B up C dwn E up F up A dwn G up B up C

Does this give you a better idea of what we're aiming for?

[mcgillcomposer]

question?  do you normally start with the soprano line in contrast?  or do you take the alto.  usually not the tenor, right? 

What do you mean "start with the soprano line in contrast"?

Remember that you can transpose the cantus firmus to any register, but your lines must be suitable for the range you give them. Pretend you're writing for a chorus.

Typical choral ranges (give or take a note or two)

bass: E (2nd below middle C) - middle C
tenor: D (1st below middle C) - G (above middle C)
alto: G (1st below middle C) - Bb ish (1st above middle C)
soprano: middle C - G (2nd above middle C)

Evidently you can exceed these ranges...just be aware of the effect and "singability" when you do. Think of this as writing for choir...NOT soloists.

[pianistimo]

oh - i see, you want to move the cantus firmus around.  now where would you like it?

[mcgillcomposer]

oh - i see, you want to move the cantus firmus around.  now where would you like it?

Wherever you want to transpose it to. Just make sure that you assign it a voice, like in my example (I made it an alto part that FIT within the alto range).

[mcgillcomposer]

question?  do you normally start with the soprano line in contrast?  or do you take the alto.  usually not the tenor, right?

sop = (answer #2) C B A G A A C# D E   

perhaps changing the second A to B?

So this answer would look like this

sop:   C B A G A B C#  D E
alto:  C D E G A F  E    D C

- 3rd beat creates a vulgar harmonic accent (a 6/4 chord sound)
- 4th-5th beat...another out-of-place harmonic accent, this time in the form of parallel octaves
- 6th beat, an aug. 4th (avoid these for now)
- 7th beat (another 6/4 sound) ... the C# creates an accent in the line that has no consequence. In fact, it undermines the importance of the cadence in this case.

Advice for this particular exercise: Beware of your harmonic accents (aug. or dim. intervals, accidentals, the climax of the individual lines, etc.). Your sporano voice is entirely conjunct motion. A defining leap often helps to give a line individuality.

[pianistimo]

ok.  first i'm putting it in the bass.  thank you for reminding me of the voice ranges!

then, i am matching it with soprano (which is open sounding):

soprano:  C(octave above mid-C) B A G A B C# D E

[pianistimo]

your cantus firmus is entirely conjunct too.  what do you say you give me a better one?

[mcgillcomposer]

your cantus firmus is entirely conjunct too.  what do you say you give me a better one?

No it's not...conjunct means step-by-step. There is a leap from E to G and from A down to F. Oh, and the cantus isn't mine, it's Fauré's  .

It's actually a very successful cantus...notice how the leaps outline the climax of the phrase....beautiful craft...simple...but beautiful nonetheless.

[mcgillcomposer]

ok.  first i'm putting it in the bass.  thank you for reminding me of the voice ranges!

then, i am matching it with soprano (which is open sounding):

soprano:  C(octave above mid-C) B A G A B C# D E

Read the post above...but thanks for stating the ranges!

[pianistimo]

oh.  i thought it meant < or >  (going up and down).  ok.  conjunct means step-by-step.  ok.


sop:   C B G F E G A B C    (F and E crosses under alto line)

alto:  C D E G A F E D C

[soliloquy]

abcdefghi

[pianistimo]

fux wouldn't have put it that way!

[mcgillcomposer]

abcdefghi

100% 

[soliloquy]

fux wouldn't have put it that way!

Cage would approve though.

[mcgillcomposer]

oh.  i thought it meant < or >  (going up and down).  ok.  conjunct means step-by-step.  ok.


sop:   C B G F E G A B C    (F and E crosses under alto line)

alto:  C D E G A F E D C

Getting better...this has a nice contour to it . A few suggestions:

- The leap away from the leading tone seems a bit unnatural at first, but at least you resovlve this tension at the end with the conjunct motion from G-C.

- There is still the problem with the 6/4 chord @ beat 7

- Beware of the resulting melody when you cross voices...in this case it comes to the following:
 C B G G A G A B C .. we have a motive developing with the repeated G that has no consequence and the melody VERY heavily emphasizes the G...it sounds like it's dillydallying.

- both of your leaps occur around the G and thus further emphasize the G. It gives a feeling of being stuck...the melodic flow STOPS.

[mcgillcomposer]

Try to keep it simple at first. It is better to do things like voice-crossing, accidentals, etc. once you are able to control them.

[jlh]

Using the following cantus firmus, write 4 different 1st species (note against note) lines (2 above and 2 below):

C up D up E up G up A down F down E down D down C

Ok, I'm bored enough right now to do this...  I think this is what you mean.  


CF:    C  D  E  G  A  F  E  D  C
Bari:  A  G  C  B  C  A  G  F  G

CF:    C  D  E  G  A  F  E  D  C
Bari:  C  B  A  B  D  C  B  G  C

CF:    B  C#  D#  F#  G#   E     D#  C#   B
Alto:  B  A#   B    E    D#   C#   B     A#   B

CF:    C  D  E  G  A  F  E  D  C
Alto:  E  G  C  D  C  G  A  B  C (changed)

[pianistimo]

ok. this one starts two octaves above mid-C  and shares the A on climax.  (the G moves down the second time to lower octave but still above mid-C).

sop:  G E C B A D G B C

alto:  C D E G A F E D C  (mcgillcomposer cantus firmus)

[mcgillcomposer]

E F G B C A G F E

I'll look at the others tomorrow...it's 1:34am here! Anyway, this is a doubling in thirds, not a counterpoint to the cantus; the lines have no independence.

[mcgillcomposer]

ok. this one starts two octaves above mid-C  and shares the A on climax.

sop:  G E C B A D G B C

alto:  C D E G A F E D C  (mcgillcomposer cantus firmus)

I'll look at this more closely tomorrow...it's late here!

But, before I even look at it, think about the issue of tessitura. Most of a vocal line should lie within a comfortable range for the singer. The extremities are usually reserved for special events. Anyway...just transpose the whole thing down and make the alto part a tenor part.

Oh, and what gives with the E against D? Do you really want a harmonic accent there?

[pianistimo]

yes.  this is voice leading for piano.  we don't care if they can't sing it. 

anyways- i'll think about this some more tommorrow too.  buyaa.  i stayed up one minute later than you. 

[ahinton]

I went through all this stuff many years ago and I have to admit that I've forgotten it all now, although I have no doubt that, indirectly, it did me some good in the long run. My teacher at the time told me that I was writing "specious counterpoint"; perhaps his remark was rather prophetic and I was reminded of it a few years later when my aural training master despairingly and witheringly accused his class of being unable to tell the difference between intervals that are augminished and those that are demented...

Susan - I hope that you're enjoying studying at McGill; how's your French coming on?...

Best,

Alistair

[jlh]

My teacher at the time told me that I was writing "specious counterpoint"; perhaps his remark was rather prophetic and I was reminded of it a few years later when my aural training master despairingly and witheringly accused his class of being unable to tell the difference between intervals that are augminished and those that are demented...

LOL that reminds me of a theory professor I had for 20th century theory... for example, he once commented on the Ligeti Split and had the class rolling.  

[counterpoint]

So, for any who are interested, here is the first assignment:

Using the following cantus firmus, write 4 different 1st species (note against note) lines (2 above and 2 below):

C up D up E up G up A down F down E down D down C

N.B. You can transpose this to any key, but your lines must fall within a vocal range that you will indicate on your response (e.g. barritone and alto). Also, we are not only aiming for "correct" lines, but also for GOOD ones. Your responses may be tonal or modal.

OK, you asked for counterpoint - here I am 

The rules are not quite clear to me, but anyways:

1st try

soprano:  E''   B'   C''   G'   G'   D''  D''  G'  E'
     alto:  C'   D'    E'   G'   A'   F'    E'   D'  C'

2nd try

soprano:  E''  D''   C''  D''  C''  D''   G'   B'   C''
     alto:  C'   D'    E'   G'   A'   F'    E'   D'  C'

[mcgillcomposer]

ok. this one starts two octaves above mid-C  and shares the A on climax.  (the G moves down the second time to lower octave but still above mid-C).

sop:  G E C B A D G B C

alto:  C D E G A F E D C  (mcgillcomposer cantus firmus)

The main problem with this is that it is not a vocal line; there are so many leaps that they become meaningless. Also, the harmonic accent on the second beat doesn't make sense...and it has no consequence; it's the equivalent of throwing a mildly dissonant cluster into a diatonic chord progression.

The unison A on the climax is NOT a good idea. You are elminating one voice at the most exciting point (if we can call it that in such a short exercise )...sort of the opposite of what you want to be doing.

Also, the climax of your line is undermined by the fact that the line itself starts on the same note; the high point is given away at the very beginning. Save your resources!

The voice leading is fine.

[mcgillcomposer]

CF:    C  D  E  G  A  F  E  D  C
Bari:  A  G  C  B  C  A  G  F  G

This is pretty good except for the end. Why are you ending on a 6/4? Also, the line gets stuck on the G, especially since you approach it in the exact same way twice (A-G) ... at this point it becomes motivic, and in such a short piece, there is no time to deal with motives.

[mcgillcomposer]

Ok, I'm bored enough right now to do this...  I think this is what you mean.  
CF:    C  D  E  G  A  F  E  D  C
Bari:  C  B  A  B  D  C  B  G  C

- stuck on C ... B is approached in the same way...it's almost as if you're just doodling around C.
- The climax of the cantus is approached by exposed 5ths...this creates a harmonic accent at an appropriate place. However, with the leap from the leading tone B, the accent becomes VERY strong...not sure if this is appropriate.
- You have 2 6/4 chords in a row (beats 6 and 7)

[mcgillcomposer]

CF:    B  C#  D#  F#  G#   E     D#  C#   B
Alto:  B  A#   B    E    D#   C#   B     A#   B

- The leap to the seventh of V7 sounds a bit clunky (it would sound better in three or 4 voices where, at least, the A# would be present.
-  You're-use the neighbour note pattern B-A#-B twice...again, this becomes a motive.
- Very successful climax at the G# of the CF. The open fifth offers a completely new sound at a crucial point of the line.

[mcgillcomposer]

Alto:  E  G  C  D  C  G  A  B  C (changed)
CF:    C  D  E  G  A  F  E  D  C

Firstly, like the other alto line, I am assuming you want it ABOVE the cantus firmus.

- 6/4 chords on beats 2 and 7
- Your line gets stuck on C
- Exposed fifths on beat 4...I know the soprano moves by step, but it sounds very harsh because it is at a crucial point in the cantus.
- You approach the V4/2 chord by leaping in both voices...in the same direction at that. This is an enormous accent (relative the the style of course) and sounds very clunky here. This point of the line doesn't warrant a harmonic accent that makes it stick out from the rest. The voice-leading is fine but the resolution is not (6/4).
- Parts of the line are very vocal in character, but others are not, especially your outline of a I chord at the beginning followed by a neighbour note back to the tonic. Not exactly exciting from a compositional point of view either.

[mcgillcomposer]

1st try

soprano:  E''   B'   C''   G'   G'   D''  D''  G'  E'
     alto:  C'   D'    E'   G'   A'   F'    E'   D'  C'

- This is an example of a successful voice-crossing. The only problem is that you introduce motives with the repeated notes. You might argue that you have two sets of them, but this is not the case in the aural spectrum because of the resulting vocal line E" B' C" C' A' D" D" G' E'.

- In two-voices it sounds strange to have notes doubled in unison UNLESS it is at the beginning or end. The reason is that one of the lines seems to disappear momentarily; it sounds like a mistake because you don't have 10 minutes of music to work out the consequences.

- The 6/4 on beat 8 sounds clunky

- In a quasi-Shenkerian view, it would have been nice to continue the line to climax on E" at the end...the C" D" E" would make a nice overall contour. If you were to do this, however, I would advise not giving away the climax on the very first note. Thankfully, this is easy to fix; just start on a C". Actually, even with the voice-crossing, the resulting melody becomes much smoother... C" B' C" G' A' D" D" G' E".

- I think this is the most musical response I've seen so far.

[mcgillcomposer]

2nd try

soprano:  E''  D''   C''  D''  C''  D''   G'   B'   C''
     alto:  C'   D'    E'   G'   A'   F'    E'   D'  C'

- The line gets stuck on the D, and with the leap in the bass at a crucial point (beat 3 to 4), the exposed fifths have an out-of-place accented quality to them.  The C" D" C" D" is just boring in something as short as this...there is no room to work out this insistence on neighbouring motion as a motive.

- The problem is easy to fix... E" D" C" B' C" D" G' and in order to not repeat the (B' C") end with F" E". This gives a beautiful contour, and a nicely approached climax for the soprano line (the leap has a purpose!), which is now:
E" D" C" B' C" D" G' F" E".

We can even improve on this suggested line. The G' seems a little out of place, so in order to make the transition between the registers smoother we could change the second D" for an A'.
E" D" C" B' C" A' G' F" E"

Here we have connected the registers and preserved the climactic leap.

[counterpoint]

That's what I call pedantry   

[pianistimo]

well, he's got some good points for traditional counterpoint.  it's good to be reminded of better ways of approaching things from a choral standpoint.  believe it or not, i used to know all this stuff.

am reviewing a little bit of harder's 'harmonic materials in tonal music.'  it also says that 'the most satisfactory spacing of a chord usually requires that the intervals which separate the soprano and alto, and the alto and tenor should not exceed an octave.'

now, poulenc just did away with all this - and copied some of palestrinas writing - which to us would be too 'open chordish.'  but, it has this odd effect (of having so many voices octaved whenever he wants and not simply at beginning and end).  but, palestrina wrote before there were 'rules' in place didn't he?  anyway - he got away with those high voices because of 'castratos'  or young boy choirs probably. 

now, if you write for castrato choir - you can pretty much get away with those Eii's.  i put an even higher note to start (Gii).  realistically - sopranos usually don't sound so good starting on high notes - so the point is well taken.

so - we avoid spacing of elevenths and things like that.  and we don't climax on unisons.  ok.  point taken on that, too.  so - basically, we start with the climax and move outward in both directions to accomplish the goal quickly?  i like your ideas mcgill.

[pianistimo]

now, mcgillcomposer, given the set of notes that you gave for the cantus firmus - what is the best note combination for the climax with the A bass note 1/2 way through?  what note is the farthest away (and not over an octave) that would best represent a climax.  this note is, i gather, the one that is probably going to be the highest if it is written for the soprano voice against alto.

[mcgillcomposer]

That's what I call pedantry   

You're right, it is. But unless one starts with these basic principles, there is nothing to build on. Remember, I am preparing to TA for an introductory counterpoint class.

[mcgillcomposer]

pianistimo,

re: the idea of climax. The idea is to have two independent lines that climax at different places (this reinforces their independence). I wouldn't necessarily work from the climax outwards, but if it is a method that works for you, go for it!