Which came first: The CHICKEN or the EGG? (A friendly pianostreet debate)

[ihatepop]

Let the debating begin!

Side of 'EGG came first': ihatepop, pianistimo, tds, bob
Side of 'CHICKEN came first': ahinton, thalbergmad, imbetter, m1469

If you are not named among the above list, feel free to join any of the sides of your choice , but please STICK TO YOUR SIDE. Thanks.

We'll see how this goes before results are announced.

ihatepop

[pianistimo]

i'm on the wrong side, ihatepop.  can you fix that?  i don't think the egg came first.  what are we talking about?  eggnog?  how can an egg come first.  it doesn't make sense.  an egg is literally the genetic progeny of the chicken.  how can the progeny come first.  in all of creation the parents come first - then the children.  that is why evolution is bunk.  it's destroying the 'pecking' order.  actually, i think it's the 'respect' order.  if you don't have to respect anyone - you say - 'even though i was born after you - i shall prefer to think i was born before.  therefore, go to *' 

now, as a society - if we were all chickens - it wouldn't matter.  but, we are humans.  look where this has gotten us.  children don't respect their parents as much - and seem to think that levels of authority are really not necessary.  but, think about wisdom.  where do you get that? the older people.  they are important.

definately, the chicken.  (if that's what parents have come to).

[counterpoint]

The amoeba came first  

The hen is the failure of an amoeba   

[pianistimo]

you must have been on a debate team before.  i cannot debate the other side.  try as i might.

have you ever seen the kids show 'noddy?'  the only adult around is the policeman.  noddy is driving at six years of age.  he picks up his friends and takes them places at will - maybe miles from where they were.  it's basically teaching kids to get lost on their own.  supposedly this is creative thinking - but i think there is such a thing as limits according to age.  i mean - if you feel free to drive at age six ...  what's left for the adult ages?

do kids fantasize what their lives would be like without their parents (*vaguely remembers this).  orphaned at six.  inherits billions.  buys a car.  buys a candy store.  i suppose it is a fantasy only.

now, if i had to choose between watching 'noddy' and 'mr. rodgers' - i'd definately choose the first.  let's get past tying the shoes together.

[rc]

The rooster

 

[ihatepop]

Ok then, how bout this. You are allowed to debate on any side of your preference.

ihatepop

[rach n bach]

Put me for the chicken

[ahinton]

For the record, I haven't actually been invited to participate on either side; I've merely been placed on one of them.

In all probability, only God (if He exists) knows the answer (if it exists), so best policy would presumably be to enquire of His representative on this forum...

Best,

Alistair

[nicco]

The egg came first. The forefathers of the hen laid eggs long before chickens came out of them.

[pianistimo]

king cobras have been pictured in ancient drawings - and still to this day produce young by stuffing a nest with about 40 eggs.  if something else came from eggs than what the parents planted - the eggs would have had to be stolen. 

according to evolution - neither the chicken or egg came first.  in fact, i'm really not sure when the eggs entered the picture.  perhaps billions of years after amoeba ruled the planet.  i think that if sea creatures began walking on land - they just decided - 'hey, let's lay an egg.'  the fish, frogs and turtles began this process probably (according to evolution) and then, other creatures followed.  but, human's decided that egg laying wasn't worth their time.  that they'd rather be pregnant for nine months.

[counterpoint]

  perhaps billions of years after amoeba ruled the planet. 

 

They have never stopped to rule the planet 

[thalbergmad]

human's decided that egg laying wasn't worth their time. 

Every employer in the Country wish they could.

Thal

[prometheus]

Very easy question. It is a question of definition. I assume with 'egg' you mean 'chicken egg'.

Now what makes a chicken egg a chicken egg? The fact that it was laid by a chicken or that fact that a chicken will emerge from it?


The answer to that question answers the question of this topic.




I think I explained this before on this web site. But it ended into an evolution-discussion by anti-reality people.

[pianistimo]

i suppose the circle of life - according to evolution - isn't a circle at all.  neither is dependant upon the other because it's all based on 'adaptation.'  although, finding some decent proof for this is much harder with the recent mtdna findings.  evolution is being debunked.  prove to me that eve's dna makeup was from a chimp.  they've traced back to possibly noah's wife - and the dna isn't chimp material.

also, humans require a lot of attention in the formative years and leaving them to fend for themselves (as pre-human- humanoids would have) - or eating them accidentally would have precluded the idea that humans were created for civilization and not civilization for humans.  they had the ability to talk at creation!  they weren't going 'ooga mooga.'  according to the bible - adam named the animals and then asked where his mate was.  how could he do that with sign language?  ok.  maybe sign language - but then, for eve to have that conversation with the devil (satan) - how did that happen?  and why would God give specific instructions about which fruit tree to eat from - if they couldn't understand what He was saying?

i choose to believe that we were created for a higher purpose from the beginning.

[thalbergmad]

prove to me that eve's dna makeup was from a chimp.  they've traced back to possibly noah's wife - and the dna isn't chimp material.

Prove to me it was not.

Who is they?

Noah is a fictional character.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

according to the bible - adam named the animals and then asked where his mate was.  how could he do that with sign language?  ok.  maybe sign language - but then, for eve to have that conversation with the devil (satan) - how did that happen?  and why would God give specific instructions about which fruit tree to eat from - if they couldn't understand what He was saying?

Neither existed, so your problem is solved.

Thal

[pianistimo]

about mtdna (which is, as you know - dna which is only passed by the mother - as when a woman and man mate - the mtdna (maternal dna) on the man's side is kept outside the cell (blastocyst) and only the woman's is passed on.

ok.  as i understand it - 'eve' is the product of theorists who trace back to one mtdna carrying woman (whom they prefer to say lived in africa)  fine.  whatever!  also, they theorize that the other woman of this 'eve's' time had only sons and therefore their dna was not passed on.

now, the bible is much easier to put this puzzle together with.  for one thing - we are not only concerned with mitochondrial dna but also world population as a whole.  mitochondrial dna can show that we are all descended from one 'eve' - genetically related but not exact in every way - but also that we definately do not favor one continent being more like 'neanderthals.'  in fact, we see a more precise and fine tuned dna pattern than previously thought (which, btw, doesn't mutate in the way we think 'mutation' but merely drops completely traits that are not inherited).

ok. so back to the world population.  estimates are that the entire population of the earth was 301 million in the year 1100 AD and that the world population did not exceed 1 billion until 1840.  so - as we go back in time - we will notice the number of our ancestors (in general rounded terms - and not counting bubonic plagues in exact year - but rather general population every 20 generations) rather than increase - DECREASES. 

scientists disagree with creationists as to how this population decreases.  some anti-creation scientists say it all goes back to 150,000 to 200,000 years.  but can you calculate this.  i don't think so.  it wouldn't make numbers sense to a mathematician.  the bible is completely accurate - not only about population but also about our precise ancestors and even names.  where our names came from - and 'families' of the earth.  genetic trait-like families - where we get our traits AND names.

the bible is fine tuned.  the earth is fine tuned.  even the 'weak' force which controls the sun's 'strong' force - makes it burn at a constant slow rate (otherwise the sun would have burned up long ago).  all this fine tuning is consistent with God.  the more you study - the more detailed it becomes.  like the mandelbrot set.  you don't just stop and say 'there's no more to see here.'

[pianistimo]

here's an explaination of dna's precision:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFLk9JS9oZ8

[thalbergmad]

the bible is completely accurate - not only about population but also about our precise ancestors and even names.  where our names came from - and 'families' of the earth.  genetic trait-like families - where we get our traits AND names.

You have outdone yourself this time.

Cannot you see that it is just a product of ancient mans inablility to understand their beginnings.

Do you honestly think that the people who wrote these fables know more than we do now?

You are making less sense than ever.

Thal

[pianistimo]

go back to science and tell me that mtdna is not fine-tuned and not some casual 'bang' which 'evolved' over time.  it is a precise coded message -  from God to our inner workings and has no evidence of mutating in the way we thing 'mutate.'  simply dropping traits is not explained in scientific textbooks this way.  they explain it as ADDING traits.  prove to me - by mtdna - that traits have EVER BEEN ADDED.

[thalbergmad]

https://www.evolutionpages.com/Mitochondrial%20Eve.htm

You are spouting creationalist nonsense.

Read the above.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

it is a precise coded message -  from God to our inner workings.

You would have more credibility if you had left that sentence out.

The Bible has absolutely nothing remotely to do with the History of mankind.

You are deluding yourself if you think it is.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

https://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ13.html

Undoubtedly the kind of site you visit.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Allan Wilson's naming Mitochondrial Eve[4] after Eve of the Genesis creation story may be considered unfortunate in that it has led to some misunderstandings among the general public. A common misconception is that Mitochondrial Eve was the only living human female of her time — she was not. Had she been the only living female of her time, humanity would most likely have become extinct due to an extreme population bottleneck

Quoting from another site.

You see pianistimo, it does not take much effort to go googling and find all kinds of different takes on theories.

I understand your need to attempt to justify the obvious nonsense in the Old Testament, but you are fighting a losing battle.

I am going to try to make this my last visit to this thread, as it will eventually peter out into nothing.

The weight of scientific evidence appears to make a mockery of a 6,000 year old Eve. That is only believed by those wishing to prove the feeble Biblical story.

Thal

[pianistimo]

about the greatness of God - i think the fact that you can find in the bible - not only names, places, but traits of peoples is very interesting.  look in genesis 49 and you will see jacob's blessing on each of his sons - and also a prophecy of what each of these 'nations' that came from each son would be like. 

abraham also prophecied about what the nations of issac and ishmael would be like - many years before.  and, jacob and esau had their 'fight' for preeminence as well - one being firstborn and yet - giving up the 'birthright.'  all this seemingly trite stuff is really God saying - each of you is going to turn into a nation and what you do now might determine (as you show examples of your lives for your children) what this nation will be like. 

of course, modern nations have changed down thru time - but the basic process of becoming a nation was 'manifest destiny' and according to the word of God.  people don't believe this today - but it is really a way to understand what is going on in the world.  we don't fight against a 'country' - but are waging a spiritual war which affects the 'birthright' blessings that God originally gave to many peoples.  including israel. 

[pianistimo]

i never said mitochodrial eve was the first woman or the 'eve' of the bible.  rather - think it was noah's wife they are theorizing about.

[pianistimo]

after Jesus Christ - the birthright is to all who enter his gates with praise and who honor Jesus name.

dna is physical - what if we have a spiritual dna?  like the holy spirit - which will determine our next body.  a new body.  one which doesn't follow physical patterns - but spiritual.  i believe this is what the bible says.  that we will enter 'the kingdom of God' in a ressurrected body.

acts 8 mentions the ethiopian eunuch who was reading a passage of isaiah and couldn't understand it.  so philip is told to explain this passage to him.  the eunuch asks 'please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this?  of himself, or of someone else?  then philip opened his mouth and preached Jesus to him - and then the eunuch said.  'look!  water - what prevents me from being baptized?'

the early christians baptized believers as a sign to others and to God that they wanted to be in his kingdom and not of the 'earthly kingdoms.'  we follow their rules but not precepts.  the laws of God overshadow any earthly rules.  also, the heavenly body that we are given is greater than the earthly.  i believe people do not see the love of God at work in earthly governments.  therefore, people obey rules so that they are not fined.  but, taxation is at such a high level now - people are not obeying from love.  but, from opression.  God is fair and merciful and is not opressive - but because all we know is man's government - all we know is oppression.

what if the bible is true about the millenium.  what if there is 1000 year reign of peace where Jesus rules from jerusalem and all the people of the earth are dwelling in peace and freedom from oppression.  what if everyone who did not get a chance to hear the gospel will fully hear it then?  what if those who understand it now will preach the gospel to them (as the disciples were told they would be princes over the 12 tribes of israel - but there are many more peoples of the earth than those 12 tribes).  what if our pupose in living today is to be a help and guide to those tommorrow.  that would be a civilized plan from the beginning - God-like - reward for those who listen to the gospel now.  the gospel of peace. 

'it does not appear what we shall be - but, we know that we shall be like Him....'  literal children of God - creating, doing, being, ruling.  God has many attributes.  we cannot BE God - but we can certainly be his children and be 'like' Him.  zechariah 9:10 '...and the bow of war will be cut off.  and He will speak peace to the nations; and His dominion will be from sea to sea, and from the River (euphrates) to the ends of the earth.'  whatever river it is - will flow by the throne of God.  the same river that the song 'now we gather by the river.'  it is mentioned in revelations 22 'and He showed me a river of the water of LIFE, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street and on either side of the river was the TREE OF LIFE (the one adam and eve didn't eat of) - bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations....'

[jakev2.0]

&mode=related&search=

[pianistimo]

the other night i was watching the local news and it featured a woman who's son had died in iraq.  she did not mourn for years - but picked up right where she was - and continued sending care packages to the men over there with toiletries, things that would remind them of home, and letters.  when asked - why are you not in mourning - she said 'i know i will see my son again.'  how can she know this?  she truly believes Jesus words.  'i will come again and receive you unto myself - and there - you shall be with me....'  she believes and so she is proving her belief by what she does.  i don't think she is supporting the war - per se- i think she is supporting her belief that what we do matters.  and that she has faith about the ressurrection of the dead.

the good thing is that not only americans will be ressurrected - but iraqi's - canadians - french - whatever nationality has lost lives in this war and the multitudes of wars that are raging and have raged in the past.  ezekiel 37 is the passage about the dry bones being brought back to life.  if we are not ressurrected in a spiritual body - we will be in a physical body to hear the gospel so that all have a chance.  God is fair.  and, if you already are baptized and believe - don't lose faith or hope because your eternal life is at stake.  you are fighting a spiritual war right now which will end with the return of Jesus Christ.  it won't matter what your dna is because God is spirit - and those who worship Him worship Him in spirit and truth.

[jakev2.0]

Your delusions sicken me.

[m1469]

The Chicken came first  .


Actually, I can't say that I am big on debate itself.  I generally am not too interested and only fall into them when it's something that I feel passionately about -- and, I can't say that I feel all too passionately about this particular subject  .  Maybe I will think of something, though -- thanks for including me on the list

[ahinton]

about the greatness of God - i think the fact that you can find in the bible - not only names, places, but traits of peoples is very interesting.  look in genesis 49 and you will see jacob's blessing on each of his sons - and also a prophecy of what each of these 'nations' that came from each son would be like. 

abraham also prophecied about what the nations of issac and ishmael would be like - many years before.  and, jacob and esau had their 'fight' for preeminence as well - one being firstborn and yet - giving up the 'birthright.'  all this seemingly trite stuff is really God saying - each of you is going to turn into a nation and what you do now might determine (as you show examples of your lives for your children) what this nation will be like. 

of course, modern nations have changed down thru time - but the basic process of becoming a nation was 'manifest destiny' and according to the word of God.  people don't believe this today - but it is really a way to understand what is going on in the world.  we don't fight against a 'country' - but are waging a spiritual war which affects the 'birthright' blessings that God originally gave to many peoples.  including israel. 

And the direct associative connection with the thread topic is...?

after Jesus Christ - the birthright is to all who enter his gates with praise and who honor Jesus name.

dna is physical - what if we have a spiritual dna? like the holy spirit - which will determine our next body. a new body. one which doesn't follow physical patterns - but spiritual. i believe this is what the bible says. that we will enter 'the kingdom of God' in a ressurrected body.

acts 8 mentions the ethiopian eunuch who was reading a passage of isaiah and couldn't understand it. so philip is told to explain this passage to him. the eunuch asks 'please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? of himself, or of someone else? then philip opened his mouth and preached Jesus to him - and then the eunuch said. 'look! water - what prevents me from being baptized?'

the early christians baptized believers as a sign to others and to God that they wanted to be in his kingdom and not of the 'earthly kingdoms.' we follow their rules but not precepts. the laws of God overshadow any earthly rules. also, the heavenly body that we are given is greater than the earthly. i believe people do not see the love of God at work in earthly governments. therefore, people obey rules so that they are not fined. but, taxation is at such a high level now - people are not obeying from love. but, from opression. God is fair and merciful and is not opressive - but because all we know is man's government - all we know is oppression.

what if the bible is true about the millenium. what if there is 1000 year reign of peace where Jesus rules from jerusalem and all the people of the earth are dwelling in peace and freedom from oppression. what if everyone who did not get a chance to hear the gospel will fully hear it then? what if those who understand it now will preach the gospel to them (as the disciples were told they would be princes over the 12 tribes of israel - but there are many more peoples of the earth than those 12 tribes). what if our pupose in living today is to be a help and guide to those tommorrow. that would be a civilized plan from the beginning - God-like - reward for those who listen to the gospel now. the gospel of peace.

'it does not appear what we shall be - but, we know that we shall be like Him....' literal children of God - creating, doing, being, ruling. God has many attributes. we cannot BE God - but we can certainly be his children and be 'like' Him. zechariah 9:10 '...and the bow of war will be cut off. and He will speak peace to the nations; and His dominion will be from sea to sea, and from the River (euphrates) to the ends of the earth.' whatever river it is - will flow by the throne of God. the same river that the song 'now we gather by the river.' it is mentioned in revelations 22 'and He showed me a river of the water of LIFE, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street and on either side of the river was the TREE OF LIFE (the one adam and eve didn't eat of) - bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations....'

And the direct associative connection with the thread topic is...?

the other night i was watching the local news and it featured a woman who's son had died in iraq. she did not mourn for years - but picked up right where she was - and continued sending care packages to the men over there with toiletries, things that would remind them of home, and letters. when asked - why are you not in mourning - she said 'i know i will see my son again.' how can she know this? she truly believes Jesus words. 'i will come again and receive you unto myself - and there - you shall be with me....' she believes and so she is proving her belief by what she does. i don't think she is supporting the war - per se- i think she is supporting her belief that what we do matters. and that she has faith about the ressurrection of the dead.

the good thing is that not only americans will be ressurrected - but iraqi's - canadians - french - whatever nationality has lost lives in this war and the multitudes of wars that are raging and have raged in the past. ezekiel 37 is the passage about the dry bones being brought back to life. if we are not ressurrected in a spiritual body - we will be in a physical body to hear the gospel so that all have a chance. God is fair. and, if you already are baptized and believe - don't lose faith or hope because your eternal life is at stake. you are fighting a spiritual war right now which will end with the return of Jesus Christ. it won't matter what your dna is because God is spirit - and those who worship Him worship Him in spirit and truth.

And the direct associative connection with the thread topic is...?

The greatness of God - people turning into nations (how's that done, then? - some kind of conjuring trick?) - birthrights - manifest destinies - spiritual war and spiritual DNA - Ethiopian eunuchs - baptism - taxation - "what if?" (there's a dedicated thread for that, you know) - fruit (there's another one for that, too) - Adam and Eve (and for that as well) -  the "tree of life"... There, within just three posts, you have given us in excess of eleven hundred words, none of which appear to be about chickens, or about eggs, or even about coming first; what they give us instead (apart from a headache) is the very stuff that I remember you promising only a few months ago to keep in reasonable check and to confine to threads that are specifically on religious topics.

Were Jesus to rule for a thousand years (which He didn't), he'd probably be abit past it well before his death / deposition / resignation. I have not been baptised; does this mean that I cannot enter (and contribute to) this thread, still less the "kingdom of heaven" and that my "eternal life" is not so much "at stake" as wholly off-limits unless I repent my ways? (I suppose that you're going to answer that). I am not fighting any war at all (apart from those internalised battles arising from decisions and questionings over notes, phrases, instrumentation, etc.). I reckon that any tree capable of yielding a dozen different varieties of fruit must be an example of genetic engineering at its most bizarrely extravagant. Will I ever be able to eat poulet de bresse or even an omelette again without being reminded of all this stuff? I hope so, and, in search of that hope and since none of this is about chickens, eggs or coming first either, I'll shut up and say no more about any of it.

At least you spared us any of those penny-dreadful "hymns" between your sermons, Susan.

Go practise the piano! Please! At least you don't beleaguer yourself and the rest of us with all that stuff while you're working at the real keyboard...

Best,

Alistair

(P.S. - I'm about to get called "ahinton" again any minute now...)

[tds]

hmm, not sure. but, today i got the feeling that, right in the very beginning, both chickens and eggs touched the earth ground pretty much at the same time.

[ahinton]

I somehow suspect that Santa Susanna came before either...

Best,

Alistair

[prometheus]

Ahahahaha, just after I pointed out that the last time I answered this question Pianistimo went on a crazy rant to attack reality now she is doing it again.

Furthermore, what she is abusing is something she already abused against me. I already mucked her up when it comes to mtDNA and the so called 'Eve', etc.

And it is hurting to see her utter stupidity that she still thinks mtDNA means maternal DNA.



I say, lock her up.



Nils, can you ban her? I now believe it will be for her own good.

[counterpoint]

prometheus, you know, what mtDNA is?

The abbreviation means mitochondrial DNA, that's right, but:

In mammals, all mtDNA in a zygote is inherited solely from the mother, and this holds true for most other organisms as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mtdna


So pianistimo is not wrong at all in this case!

[prometheus]

Counterpoint, I do not understand your, what seems to be an attempt at a, joke.

[thalbergmad]

I love you pianistimo.

But you are kind of weird.

Thal

[ahinton]

Counterpoint, I do not understand your, what seems to be an attempt at a, joke.

That may be because you are regarding a statement that was not intended to be a joke or an attempted joke joke as though it were one; I'm not saying whether or not "counterpoint" is correct in every particular of what he is writing here, but I don't see any joke myself - on the contrary, it seems to me like a perfectly reasonable statement as far as it goes. What is your view of it if taken other than as a joke or attempted joke? - in other words, taken at face value?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I love you pianistimo.

But you are kind of weird.

Thal

Another declaration of love from Thal. Is anyone counting how many of these there are? (Thal's love declarations, that is - not "pianistimi"...)

Best,

Alistair

[counterpoint]

Counterpoint, I do not understand your, what seems to be an attempt at a, joke.

You have written in a recent post:

And it is hurting to see her utter stupidity that she still thinks mtDNA means maternal DNA.

mtDNA is maternal DNA, so no "utter stupidity" here.

[pianistimo]

as i see it (and i did read all of your posts) you are focusing on personality and not on facts.  why should i be 'locked up' for countering your personal beliefs, prometheus.  don't you believe in free speech.

#1 mtdna proves that traits are not added - but if anything is 'modified' - they are lost traits.

#2 mtdna - as counterpoint said - is passed maternally.

#3 the population of the earth speaks for a possibly young earth as the bible says - otherwise it would be wayyyyy overpopulated by now - not just by humans - but animals.

#4 the sun should have no controlled fusion - but have burnt out by now if it weren't for God's control of the amount of fusion (slow and steady).

#5 fine-tuned precision in everything created.

#6 if the egg came first - how did it become fertilized.  it fertilized itself?  it would show God to be utterly stupid.  that we don't need and never needed parents.  therefore - we wouldn't need God.  He's the ultimate parent.

#7 life is pointless if the egg came first.  no direction for the chicky.

alistair, i will not call you ahinton unless really mad.  you have done nothing, as far as i can surmise, that would cause even consternation.  i suppose that we do not agree on every point - but i was attempting to show that dna is not the only thing that causes traits.  sometimes they are traits that show up when people show a proclivity to be one way or another - and God calls them on it.  traits can be practiced and not soley hereditary.  practiced and taught to future generations.  as i see it - there is truth to both sides - that some traits are inherited - and some are practiced (environmental, social, physical) because of a proclivity to that trait perhaps in childhood.  some say that 'training up a child in the way he should go - and when he is old he will not depart from it....'  is nonsense.  well, maybe they haven't tried it.  of course, i cannot say i have tried this perfectly, either.  it is much easier to just watch a child and say - this is the way he/she is.  but, is that purposeful?  i think God is purposeful.  He tell us the consequences of good and evil and we choose. 

[prometheus]

The fact that mtDNA is passed down through the mother doesn't mean it is maternal DNA. Let alone that the 'mt' stands for 'maternal'.

[thalbergmad]

#3 the population of the earth speaks for a possibly young earth as the bible says - otherwise it would be wayyyyy overpopulated by now - not just by humans - but animals.
 

Nonsense, wars and plagues sent by your compassionate God have helped keep the population down.

75% of the population of Europe are thought to have died during the great Plague of the 1340's/50's. Millions upon millions in other plagues, millions more in 2 World Wars, millions from Influenza, famine, drought and natural disasters.

Thal

[elevateme_returns]

https://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/05/26/chicken.egg/

[thalbergmad]

#4 the sun should have no controlled fusion - but have burnt out by now if it weren't for God's control of the amount of fusion (slow and steady).

No need for God at all.

https://www.solarviews.com/eng/sun.htm

Have a look at the above.

I have tried to find something suitable for nursery/junior school children.

Try to keep away from creationalist websites.

Thal

[counterpoint]

https://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/05/26/chicken.egg/

If the egg was first:

At least we need two eggs! One with a hen and one with a cock in it, otherwise no new eggs will be produced 

[prometheus]

But that egg was laid by an 'almost-chicken' and wouldn't one call it an 'almost-chicken egg' instead of a 'chicken egg'? So then the chicken came before the chicken egg.

That was my point which everyone ignored.


You people have a debate on something and then when someone wants to provide the answer you people ignore them.

[rc]

Somebody hand prometheus his medal please

[prometheus]

Medal? This is high school biology.

I thought pianists would generally be more educated. Maybe this gets canceled out because this is da internets.