UK music college advice

[thorn]

im auditioning to virtually every conservatoire in the UK and am just looking for any general advice and experiences that anyone has to offer.

also would be greatful for opinions on my repertoire, which i have finally narrowed down and begun to memorise:

Bach- Sarabande and Gigue from Partita nr 4
Beethoven- 1st mvt of Les Adieux
Liszt- Apres une lecture du Dante
Rachmaninoff- Prelude Op 23 nr 4
Debussy- Feux d'artifice
Ravel- La Vallee des Cloches
Takemitsu- Rain tree sketch II

any replies much appreciated

[daniloperusina]

My experience is that the leading ones are Royal College & Academy, Trinity & Guildhall, Royal Scottish(?) in Glasgow, Manchester and Birmingham conservatoire. A usual route is to take your Bachelor's degree in, say, Manchester or Birmingham, then do postgraduate in London Academy or College.

The advantage with the two London Royals has partly to do with the fame of those two schools. Birmingham has an excellent pianodepartment. Some stunning virtuosos studied there, one of which was a few years ago selected as that year's Rising Star, with debuts in Carnegie Hall, Musikverein in Vienna etc.

When I studied in Birmingham it had a great atmosphere of friendliness, and at most only a mild competitiveness. Also cheaper rents than London and a bit easier to find practice rooms.

[franzliszt2]

I'm at Royal college of music and think it's great! So I reccomend RCM!!  If you have any questions just ask, I was in your situation this time 2 years ago when I auditioned. I also auditioned to everywhere. Except Birmingham and leeds. The auditions are not really that scary, the panels are usually friendly. Your repertoire looks fine, don't worry about that. Good luck!! 

[mikey6]

Practise the Beethoven, i'm 99% sure you'll get asked for it! (I did....)
ergh..Pretty sure you need an etude in the repertoire, at least for RCM auditions.

[thorn]

Practise the Beethoven, i'm 99% sure you'll get asked for it! (I did....)
ergh..Pretty sure you need an etude in the repertoire, at least for RCM auditions.

I thought you just needed something to show off technical skill rather than specifically an etude? Feux d'artifice is my technical piece- will that count?

[mikey6]

I thought you just needed something to show off technical skill rather than specifically an etude? Feux d'artifice is my technical piece- will that count?

I don't know.  Ask whoever you're auditioning for, or check the prospectus or web site.  For RCM, they specifically requested and etude.

[amelialw]

if you're auditioning for RCM this is what is required

1 Concert Etude

1 concert piece/prelude and fugue by J.S Bach: I'm pretty sure you can't just play the Sarabande and Gigue from Partita nr 4, you should prep the Overture and the Sarabande or the Overture and the Gigue

1 whole Classical Sonata: you should learn the whole of Les Adieux

1 20th Centuary piece

[mikey6]

ok, they must have changed it for next year, coz I had 50 minutes of repertoire including an etude.

[jlh]

oops, posted in wrong topic.... 

[thorn]

if you're auditioning for RCM this is what is required

1 Concert Etude

1 concert piece/prelude and fugue by J.S Bach: I'm pretty sure you can't just play the Sarabande and Gigue from Partita nr 4, you should prep the Overture and the Sarabande or the Overture and the Gigue

1 whole Classical Sonata: you should learn the whole of Les Adieux

1 20th Centuary piece

where did you hear this?

on their site it just says:

Undergraduate

You should prepare from memory a programme of
three works of your own choice lasting at least 15
minutes, showing a variety of style, period and
character. The audition panel reserves the right to
hear only two pieces overall. You should show proof
of recent public performances in festivals, school
concerts etc.

[daniloperusina]

I think you're right, thorn. The ususal undergraduate entry audition asks for a movement of a classical sonata, not the whole thing. Same with baroque etc.
You have only 15-20 minutes anyway to show that you can play in a variety of styles.
And more to the point, since they are specific about the time ("at least 15 minutes"), make sure you clock the timings on each piece so that you can fill up the 15 minutes plus some more. Then give them a program of three works lasting 15-17 minutes or so.

[amelialw]

k it varies then...that's the requirement for the school i'm entering next year though

[pianowelsh]

I recommend any of the Royal schools of music: Royal Academy, Royal College, Royal Scottish and Royal Welsh...Trinity and Guildhall also have good keyboard departments.  You NEED to check each college for their current audition requirements - they DO change. Many of them have altered their requirements to being far more general to comply with open access legislation. I had a pool of pieces when auditioning and played different combos for different places. Trinity for example is strong on contemporary music so I would attempt to get the raintree sketch in there. Royal academy look for quality of playing and your CV they dont necessarily need all virtuoso stuff in audition (one will do) they are looking for quality of finish - ie do you have pro performer potential. They will expect very high standards of your beethoven (check out Eltons pedigree!) RCM you will need to show you can waggle your fingers more..its a much bigger department! Id be inclined to get a CHopin etude up to standard for them as well as feux de artifice OR the Ravel might actually be more appropraite. A prelude and fugue would work most places..id check with individual colleges how they feel about the movements of the partita 4 - some maybe ok others would be sniffy!  Royal welsh...if your going to play Ravel make it GOOD HOD studied msot of Ravel works with Perelmutter in Paris - a less then fine performance may lessen your chances.  Royal scottish are quite traditional in what they like but they are encouraged to to lots of collaborative work their so experience in your cv might help!! Guildhall is pretty competitive too these days. To stand out I would suggest you select your programme to show the widest possible range of colours you can achieve on your piano!

Remember for all of the schools its performance POTENTIAL that they are looking for not 'finished' artists but they want to see that you are dedicated to being the best student you can be. Take some consultation lessons and get adice from profs who are IN the places at the moment.

Generally I would choose multi movement works or variation structures for audition - LONG movements or works like the Dante c 15-20 mins unbroken...WILL more than likely be stopped before the end or you will be asked to pick up somewhere..I never find this conducive to giving your best performance.  Give them as many flavours on the plate as possible without making them sick!

[daniloperusina]

A prelude and fugue would work most places..id check with individual colleges how they feel about the movements of the partita 4 - some maybe ok others would be sniffy!

I have this feeling too, although I admit that it's just a feeling. There might be a risk that the jury will react "why is he not playing a fugue?"

[franzliszt2]

I think Chopin ballades are Scherzo's are the perfect solution to every 20 minute audition. They are shortish, and full of amazing music, and technically challenging. Bach preludes and fugues are always good. Chopin etudes are always risky. I'd go with a Liszt concert etude, or a Debussy etude, or summit a little easier to pull off, but with enough technical challenges in to show off.

I know people who played Dante for their auditions and they got in. They probably will stop you though.

For all my auditions I played Chopin scherzo no3, Beethoven appasionata and Liszt concert etudes.

The scherzo is perfect to start with, you sit down..drop the stool (easy for me I always sit very low...usually stools don't go low enough so I need a seat, but since I couldn't ask for a seat, a stool had to do so I just put it to the bottom) and BANG! Your in with that amazing opening. Easy to pull off and makes them sit up.

Appasionata I put 2nd becuase by this point I'm used to the piano and should have an advantage on that awkward opening to get the right sound. People said "don't play appasionata it's overplayed blah blah..." But don't let that ever put you off. I had a statement to make with that piece so I made it. Overplayed pieces are only a problem if you play them like other people.

Liszt was just fun, and short, and showed that I had technique. They assume that you've played Chopin etudes, and will probably ask you about them. I got asked how many have you done? etc...

 Don't worry about times, etc..unless you do somethign stupid like play Liszt b minor sonata lol. They say... at LEAST 15. so offer 20 mins to be safe. They will stop you.

Be prepared to play twice as well!! Since they have loads of applicants they usually send you through 2 rounds of auditions, or an interview.

[thorn]

I'm going to use the Bach prelude and fugue in G minor (WTK1) rather than the partita movements. I agree that the jury will probably think why is he not doing a prelude and fugue. also, i used it for my diploma exam last week so i dont even have to relearn it.

the only Chopin Ballade i play is the first one and there is no way i am going to risk using it for audition. Scherzo wise ive played through the 2nd and 3rd before so im going to find them out and see what i think.

these are the etudes that i would feel comfortable using, but i want to get opinions before i consider any seriously:

Liszt- Gnomenreigen, Vision, Harmonies du Soir, Chasse-Neige
Debussy- 'Pour les quartes', 'Pour les arpeges composes'
Scriabin- op 2 nr 1, op 8 nr 12
Messiaen- ile de feu 1

i agree with franzliszt2 that chopin etudes are risky and i dont want to add any unecessary pressure. so im not going to use any of those.

also, ive recently been working on the Ravel Toccata from Tombeau which im thinking of using over Feux d'artifice. if i did choose to use the Toccata would that be counted as a substitute for an etude?

and thanks for all the help you've all been giving so far- its all much appreciated

[daniloperusina]

I see what you mean, but an etude is an etude. Or where would one draw the line? Chopin's preludes tend to be as concentrated on a particular pianistic figure as his etudes, but no one counts them as etudes.

I would think Debussy or Ravel something sensual to show your command of their particular sonority. Don't attempt at showing primarily finger dexterity in every piece, show that you are a well rounded musician instead.

Bach Prelude & Fugue
Beethoven Les Adieux
Chopin Scherzo nr3
Liszt Gnomenreigen
Ravel La vallé des cloches
Takemitsu Rain tree sketch II

To me that seems like a good list. Another question is, should they pick out a 15-20 minute program from this, or should you narrow it down to just three pieces 15+minutes? I think the latter is probably the case.

[daniloperusina]

Just to add, I remember an old post by Koji Attwood, where he said something about being accepted because Leon Fleisher liked the Adagio from his Mozart sonata. There is more than one way to impress a jury

[pianowelsh]

absolutely!! its not all whizz bang to get into college. Infact thats where most people fall down is that they are trying to play works they really havent grown into technically yet. Show your scope and your musical breadth and interests.  That is far more interesting to the panel...they think ah yes that person would be good with so and so..or If we give them a place they will be active in our contemporary music ensemble...or we have a beethoven competition candidate here, they clearly ressonate with that music... Really if fingers is all you have to show chances are you may not be accepted.. I know there were at least 5 pianists who auditioned the same day as me who WERE better technically than I was but they were not offered a place.  This is not to say you dont need something challenging in the programme to demonstrate your technical command but as it has been said you dont need to have millions of notes in everything you play..I have found that Ravels oiseux triste is a very successfull audition piece in combination with more notey works by Mozart or Chopin/Lizst.  I would suggest if you have a minor key bach prelude and fugue of Bach then you should go for a more capriccious and lively styled etude as a contrast.

[thorn]

Right- I had my first lesson after the summer and reviewed my pieces with my teacher and the one's im doing are:

Bach- Prelude & Fugue (1-16)
Beethoven- Op 31 nr 2 1st movement (easier to memorise than Les Adieux)
Chopin- Nocturne Op 48-1 (was advised against doing Scherzo 3)
Liszt- Gnomenreigen
Debussy- Preludes Bk 1 nr 7 and Bk 2 nr 1
Takemitsu- Litany

With the Debussy Preludes I have one technical one as a back up for if I dont feel comfortable with Gnomenreigen (having trouble with the 'Vivacissimo' section) and one to show off the sonorities used in Debussy. My teacher thought it would be a shame not to throw a couple of Preludes in there as i've played all 24 at some point.

Then I have the Takemitsu as something modern, and also to show control of sound. For the Chopin Nocturne, I think the same applies to that particular one as what franzliszt2 said about the Scherzi.

The Bach, if im honest, im only doing because im worried they will disapprove of me not doing something of his. Im finding it a nightmare to memorise and also pretty boring- do you absolutely HAVE to do a Bach piece/something Baroque/a prelude and fugue?