How fast can you play?

[opus10no2]

Well, how can this be measured?

Scales, 3rds, 6ths, octaves, and 345 chromatics.

Uneveness is *OK*, but all the notes have to be there, what are your top BPMs? in 16ths

If this isn't your preferred way, just tell us your best time in some speedy peices

[mad_max2024]

If I use my keys and ram them from one side of the piano to the other I can play an extremely fast glissando 

[bench warmer]

Sometimes I play so fast the notes get "blue-shifted", their wavelength actually get shorter because of the velocity.

Liszt Grand Galop Chromatique ...........2min 30sec. Blazin'!

Note: The notes will sound even faster (shorter wavelength) if you fill the room with Helium first.

I don't see what this is relevant to . One plays as fast as one needs to ( and control should count; what's the point of fast sloppy playing?).  It must go back to the days of the Old West when one had to be  the fastest drawing a pistol and firing accurately during  a gun fight in order to survive. Then you had the young kids who Had to show they were the fastest.  At least then there was a point to it... of course a lot of showboats died.   

[opus10no2]

Billions upon billions of dollars are spend on the olympics every 4 years.

People admire speed, those who claim not to are mostly pretentious people who wish they had it.

[pita bread]

evenness matters.

[opus10no2]

evenness matters.

It does, and it's related to speed, but if this becomes a factor - the judging becomes much more difficult. It veers on the dreaded subjectively musical.

At extreme tempos, unevenness becomes less obvious anyway, so accuracy would be the only major factor along with teh speed.

[jabbz]

I have brilliant arpeggios and octaves, but EVERYTHING else sucks.

[opus10no2]

Arpeggios are actually related to octaves, speedy wrist motion.

Try 10/2 to improve the fingers.

[pita bread]

It does, and it's related to speed, but if this becomes a factor - the judging becomes much more difficult. It veers on the dreaded subjectively musical.

At extreme tempos, unevenness becomes less obvious anyway, so accuracy would be the only major factor along with teh speed.

I think its bullshit if you scale 32nd notes at q=144 unevenly, but if you can do it evenly, then you haff mah respect.

[jlh]

I don't practice scales everyday without fail, but there was a time a few years ago that I was studying them very seriously and I got to 32nd notes at q=160 for all 36 M/m scales. 

[invictious]

Godspeed.

No, I can't even play a C major scale at 120bpm (eighths) evenly.

[pita bread]

I don't practice scales everyday without fail, but there was a time a few years ago that I was studying them very seriously and I got to 32nd notes at q=160 for all 36 M/m scales. 

Describe to me your scale technique.

[opus10no2]

I think its bullshit if you scale 32nd notes at q=144 unevenly, but if you can do it evenly, then you haff mah respect.

Well, the thing about evenness is that it's spectral, it can be perfectly even or really bumpy, and everything inbetween, the human ear wouldn't be the best judge of this..a soundwave analysis would be the only objective analysis.

Accuracy is simpler - the notes are there or they're not.

[richard black]

I got to 32nd notes at q=160

That's 21 notes/second - I call that fast!

[viking]

WORST THREAD EVER

[opus10no2]

WORST THREAD EVER

Dizagree.

[jlh]

Describe to me your scale technique.

Well, you really need someone to work with you on that.  I can't put into a typed message exactly what to do and assume you will interpret what I say as intended.  The main thing to do is to start very slow, making sure you are doing everything technically correct.  I typically start playing scales at q=80 and notch it up very slowly until I get to my max for that day.  I found that at about 120-130 I reached a tough hurdle to overcome, but because of my teacher and the advice she gave about how to loosen up and that faster = softer, I was able to go much faster. 

[franzliszt2]

Me and my friends used to play scale wars and stuff when we were YOUNGER (I add that becasue we soon grew out of it)

We used to race eachother, and the stopwatch. Op10no4 was always the favourite racer etude. Liszt sonata octaves, scales in double 3rds 4ths etc..

Now I usually play scales in semiquavers at 184 on metronome confortably, but can get faster if I need to, but then I find it pointless becasue it becomes easier in many ways. Legato and stuff goes out of the window becasue the speed covers it up.

2  passages have troubled me so far in my piano life with speed and they were the double 3rds in Dmajor in Brahms 2nd concerto, and Chopin op10no7 which I insist is impossible to get to Chopins metronome speed and maintain legato. I've never even heard a recording of this at full speed. I've heard people try to play it fast, but they failed miserably. I don't even think the Friedman recording hits the speed, and that is the greatest recording of a Chopin etude ever

[jlh]

Now I usually play scales in semiquavers at 184 on metronome confortably, but can get faster if I need to, but then I find it pointless becasue it becomes easier in many ways. Legato and stuff goes out of the window becasue the speed covers it up.

184 per semiquaver?  seems easy...

[franzliszt2]

184 per semiquaver?  seems easy...

4 semi's to each beat at 184. Not that easy to maintain perfect legato and clarity. It is now for me becasue I've practiced it for years lol. I just like that speed, it's not so fast that I lose the legao feel (I keep the osund but the speed covers it up) for me scales are all about legato. Speed is easy with the right movements, as is legato I suppose. I still find the hardest scale c major at a moderate tempo. The thumb bumps, but I guess that is a problem that every pianist must face for all eternity...the PERFECT c major scale is my aim in life. My teacher told me I will be the first man on earth to achieve it if I ever do lol.

[opus10no2]

YOUNGER (I add that becasue we soon grew out of it)

I find it somewhat pathetic and sad that someone can grow to be less mature with time.

[jlh]

4 semi's to each beat at 184. Not that easy to maintain perfect legato and clarity. It is now for me becasue I've practiced it for years lol. I just like that speed, it's not so fast that I lose the legao feel (I keep the osund but the speed covers it up) for me scales are all about legato. Speed is easy with the right movements, as is legato I suppose. I still find the hardest scale c major at a moderate tempo. The thumb bumps, but I guess that is a problem that every pianist must face for all eternity...the PERFECT c major scale is my aim in life. My teacher told me I will be the first man on earth to achieve it if I ever do lol.

HAHA yeah I figured it was 4 notes per 184, but I had to check...  I remember having a metronome war while playing the op 10 no 4.  I actually won against chopin's marks..    I haven't played that etude for about 10 yrs now.  Perhaps I should just learn the whole op 10 set and play em all at once?

[pita bread]

Jih and franzliszt2, I think we can turn this topic into a really interesting discussion about actual scale technique.

Jih, you mentioned that the most important thing is practicing everything technically perfect. Can you begin to describe the technical motions as best as you can? Franzliszt2, I would be curious as to what motions you use too.

Personally, I've never been able to stick to just one method. I did thumb under when I was younger. I've tried Bernhard style scales using rotation recently, and nowadays I stick more with Sandor's method.

[imbetter]

well, i guess i play pretty fast but not super duper hamelin type fast so i put "im fast"

[sharon_f]

I played a piece so fast once that I didn't even realize I had played it. 

[counterpoint]

I can play very slow 

[andyd]

Amusing thread.  The words "when appropriate" came to mind. 
I was trying to play something up to speed last night when my wife commented that I was going too fast, and so I thought I'd share.

It is the fastest thing I've ever tried to play and is correctly marked on the transcription as
"c.212  Swing 8ths".  Yes 212 is off the metronome scale.  Trust me, I wasn't going too fast.
The image below is a short section of it:



you can see there are five nice & easy bars of swing (big hands are useful cos it's only partly pedalled) before you hit bars six and seven of the image, the fast right hand run coming down from the high D with thirds fingered 4/2. 
Over-practice initially of these two bars gave me mild RSI in my right forearm due I believe to lifting the fourth (& second) finger rapidly and repeatedly.
It may be the most difficult run of the piece to get up to speed, but it's not actually the fastest, there being a run of single notes in 5ths that is a near glissando at a speed of c.212.

I'd be interested to know if other people find that right hand run as tricky as I do?

Anyhow, after my wife's comment, when in company I'll be careful to play the piece at a speed appropriate to my ability that makes it sound musical.


Regards

Andy

[nicco]

Anyhow, after my wife's comment, when in company I'll be careful to play the piece at a speed appropriate to my ability that makes it sound musical.

Sorry Andy, but you are talking for deaf ears.

[thalbergmad]

I played a piece so fast once that I didn't even realize I had played it. 

I played a piece so fast, that i finished it before i had started.

Thal

[mike_lang]

I heard Cage did that once.

[elevateme_returns]

Godspeed.

No, I can't even play a C major scale at 120bpm (eighths) evenly.

c major is the hardest scale to do quickly in my opinion.

[jabbz]

C major is one of the hardest to do, definitely. I think it's odd that pupils are started on C major. Personally, I would start them on C# minor, it's a easy one.

[avetma]

C major is one of the hardest to do, definitely. I think it's odd that pupils are started on C major. Personally, I would start them on C# minor, it's a easy one.

I belive pupils should start with E major or B (H) major.

[franzliszt2]

I find it somewhat pathetic and sad that someone can grow to be less mature with time.

No speed just becomes stupid. I've achieved more inmy life playing properly than playing fast. Look at me and you and lets decide who's better off...you, speed obsessed and no teaher, no concerts, no income on music......me..full time in conservatoire, one of best teachers in the world, concerts, money, and probably a technique that is better than yours by far becasue I use it properly. Speed is not a concern of mine because I don't need it to be, it is there, and has been all the time, you however spend your life seeking fast fingers becasue you are blind! So shut up until you have something to warrent respect. You probably play like 2 chopin etudes badly. Your nothing, and it's about time you realised that.

How many concerto's you played with orchestra's? How many recitals you played? Answer that honestly. You are nothing, anfd your 22 or summit. Get in the real world. You have no idea about tone production. You are so bad it's actually unreal.

[jabbz]

Can't we all be happy and nice to each other?

[franzliszt2]

Can't we all be happy and nice to each other?

No

[elevateme_returns]

im so fast!!!!! who wants to race me. im faster than a cheetah. lets RACE

[jabbz]

No

Why not?

[pita bread]

I'm a turtle

[jabbz]

I'm an elephant, and I play Ract 3

[counterpoint]

Why not?

Because Imfasterthanyou and Imthebestteacheroftheworld and Iplaymoreeventhanyou and myfingeringisbetterthanyours and Iunderstandmusicbetterthanyou have to fight to prove their claims 

[jabbz]

Oh. That sucks.

[futureconcertpianist]

Hey,
I just timed myself how fast I can play Chopin Op25 No12 Etude and even though it is an unmusical speed and I wouldnt perform it this fast, I can get up to: half bar=92
FCP (can anyone here play it faster? It wouldnt surprize me as I am sure I could do faster if I really practised hard at speed)

[mike_lang]

Hey,
I just timed myself how fast I can play Chopin Op25 No12 Etude and even though it is an unmusical speed and I wouldnt perform it this fast, I can get up to: half bar=92
FCP (can anyone here play it faster? It wouldnt surprize me as I am sure I could do faster if I really practised hard at speed)

Psh...you're nothing.  My chihuahua can play WHOLE bar = 93!

[pita bread]

I'm an elephant, and I play Ract 3

you mean da Mach 3?

[jabbz]

you mean da Mach 3?

sheet yeah!

[chidi]

I can play all of Opus Clamuslasiflowejfkamsldasf.... something along those ridiculous lines, in a minute.


 

[jlh]

Alistair,

What was the reasoning behind the title "Opus Clavicembalisticum"?  Was it to parody the unusual title of Busoni's "Fantasia Contrappuntistica"?

[forester]

My hard drive goes at 7400rpm or something like that whatever music is stored on it.

Speed is an illusion.

[jlh]

I can play at 60 fps -- even faster if it's a really good camera!!!