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Poll

What is his best, his ultimate etude, the crowning masterpiece of the set?

op. 10/1
6 (9.2%)
op. 10/2
5 (7.7%)
op. 10/4
3 (4.6%)
op. 10/8
2 (3.1%)
op. 10/10
1 (1.5%)
op. 10/12
8 (12.3%)
op. 25/1
4 (6.2%)
op. 25/5
4 (6.2%)
op. 25/6
3 (4.6%)
op. 25/10
1 (1.5%)
op. 25/11
13 (20%)
op. 25/12
7 (10.8%)
Newly added ones below:
1 (1.5%)
op. 10/3
1 (1.5%)
op. 10/7
2 (3.1%)
op. 10/9
1 (1.5%)
op. 10/11
2 (3.1%)
op. 25/7
1 (1.5%)

Total Members Voted: 39

What is the ultimate Chopin Etude? (Read 3067 times)

Offline cloches_de_geneve

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What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
« on: August 20, 2007, 11:09:04 AM »
Feel free to add other ones if you think they are more important than the ones listed.  :)
"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould

Sheet music to download and print: Etudes by Chopin



Offline leuthold

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 11:21:56 AM »
i selected 25#1 and 25#6 but 10#12 had to be listed...

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 11:57:18 AM »
this isnt really the most useful thread
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline invictious

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 12:38:11 PM »
I wanted to vote for Winterwind and Revolutionary, but only one of them were there, so I didn't vote.
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 05:14:10 PM »
how fascinating




















...naaaaat
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #5 on: August 20, 2007, 06:20:55 PM »
winterwind? What on earth does that do? It's rotation...and erm...oh hold on thats all it is! Wosrt chopin etude by far! Most boring thing in the world to learn, frustrating, no musical value, most annoying repetitions! all in all not worth the effort! I gained nothing from it other than a sore head!

Offline amelialw

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 06:26:25 PM »
there is no ultimate chopin etude!!!end of story. All of them are meant to teach/address different technical difficulties.

And why did you leave out so many?
J.S Bach Italian Concerto,Beethoven Sonata op.2 no.2,Mozart Sonatas K.330&333,Chopin Scherzo no.2,Etude op.10 no.12&Fantasie Impromptu

Offline cloches_de_geneve

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #7 on: August 20, 2007, 06:49:40 PM »
there is no ultimate chopin etude!!!end of story. All of them are meant to teach/address different technical difficulties.
And why did you leave out so many?

First of all, I explicitly stated that anyone should feel free to add other etudes, if they thought they were masterworks.

Second, as there are debates about the masterpiece among Mozart operas, Beethoven symphonies/piano concertos, Schubert Lieder, etc.. why shouldn't there be a discussion about the jewels among Chopin etudes? Surely, they are not all on the same level.

Third, may I suggest that you change  "visions fugatives" into "visions fugitives"  ;)
"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #8 on: August 20, 2007, 06:56:23 PM »
I think the Chopin etudes posts are fundamentally out of steam, there is nothing more to say about them right now (is anybody actually asking for help on how to play them?)  As a result, you get these incredibly contradictory and banal polls - which will soon end up in the poll ghetto, mark my words - that ask you to choose the "ultimate" Chopin etude - and then tell you that you can pick "up to 2."  Look, either it's ultimate or it is not.  Stop gorilla-raping the performance board and spare us all the misery!

Walter Ramsey


 .
. .

Offline leonidas

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #9 on: August 20, 2007, 07:01:16 PM »
I gained nothing from it other than a sore head!

Predictable.
Ist thou hairy?  Nevermore - quoth the shaven-haven.

Offline cloches_de_geneve

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #10 on: August 20, 2007, 07:02:24 PM »
I think the Chopin etudes posts are fundamentally out of steam, there is nothing more to say about them right now (is anybody actually asking for help on how to play them?)  As a result, you get these incredibly contradictory and banal polls - which will soon end up in the poll ghetto, mark my words - that ask you to choose the "ultimate" Chopin etude - and then tell you that you can pick "up to 2."  Look, either it's ultimate or it is not.  Stop gorilla-raping the performance board and spare us all the misery!

Walter Ramsey

Nobody forces you to read these polls, let alone respond to them with meaningless comments. Besides, your remark about the inadequancy of having two options for the ultimate etude indicates that your grasp of mathematics is not exactly sensational.
"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #11 on: August 20, 2007, 07:55:52 PM »
Predictable.

do YOU think the winterwind etude is good music?
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline leonidas

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #12 on: August 20, 2007, 08:02:07 PM »
Great music, and material of great technical worth.
Ist thou hairy?  Nevermore - quoth the shaven-haven.

Offline pseudopianist

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #13 on: August 20, 2007, 08:25:46 PM »
Having a hard time choosing between 25/5 , 10/1 and 10/3
Whisky and Messiaen

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #14 on: August 20, 2007, 08:29:22 PM »
Nobody forces you to read these polls, let alone respond to them with meaningless comments. Besides, your remark about the inadequancy of having two options for the ultimate etude indicates that your grasp of mathematics is not exactly sensational.

At least I can be proud of my grammar: "What is his best, his ultimate etude, the crowning masterpiece of the set?
You may only select up to 2 options."

Walter Ramsey



Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #15 on: August 20, 2007, 08:31:53 PM »
lol
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline cloches_de_geneve

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #16 on: August 20, 2007, 08:32:58 PM »
At least I can be proud of my grammar: "What is his best, his ultimate etude, the crowning masterpiece of the set?
You may only select up to 2 options."

Walter Ramsey

Good try, but no luck: The last sentence is a default-sentence created automatically by the program when you define the number of possible choices. Not much I could do about it.  8)
"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #17 on: August 20, 2007, 08:38:16 PM »
Good try, but no luck: The last sentence is a default-sentence created automatically by the program when you define the number of possible choices. Not much I could do about it.  8)

You could follow your own grammar when you say, "his best, his ultimate etude, the crowning masterpiece of the set?" and set possible choices at "1."

Walter Ramsey




Offline cloches_de_geneve

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #18 on: August 20, 2007, 08:48:51 PM »
You could follow your own grammar when you say, "his best, his ultimate etude, the crowning masterpiece of the set?" and set possible choices at "1."

Walter Ramsey

By giving two choices you help the undecided, but more importantly, you increase the reliability and replicability of the final outcome. I think it's beyond the scope of this thread to explain the maths behind it to you. 
"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould

Offline m

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #19 on: August 20, 2007, 08:54:43 PM »
I am not sure why you left so many etudes out.
In fact, my 2 favorites--op.10/7 and op.10/11 are not even on the list. But if I were to chose only one, it would've been Op.10/11.

Offline soliloquy

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #20 on: August 20, 2007, 11:14:04 PM »
10-9 is my favorite, but it was left off.


I voted for 10-8 and 25-11

Offline burstroman

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #21 on: August 21, 2007, 02:40:36 AM »
F minor, op post.

Offline cloches_de_geneve

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #22 on: August 21, 2007, 07:28:09 AM »
I am not sure why you left so many etudes out.
In fact, my 2 favorites--op.10/7 and op.10/11 are not even on the list. But if I were to chose only one, it would've been Op.10/11.

I have expanded the list according to recent suggestions.

I understand your fondness for 10/11; it's such an amazing etude! However, who plays it well? I find myself almost always disppointed by performances of it -- as if it was near-impossible to pianistically match the sublime content of the music.
"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #23 on: August 21, 2007, 05:28:47 PM »
10-9 is my favorite, but it was left off.


I voted for 10-8 and 25-11

why 25-11? It is shockingly crap! The harmonies are terrible, the "melody" is dreadful, it covers rotation of the hand, and thats it. It only becomes a slight problem when you've played from op10no1 and through them all. Then fatigue kicks in a little. All that etude is is find the position and rotate, it fits perfectly under the hand...and yet it takes ages to learn becasue it's bloody annoying! And millions of notes, and no final goal. It's also the favourite among speed people and they can't play it so you get loads of bad people trying to play it loud!

Op10 no7 should be on! Thats very tricky to get the technique perfect to. And it really teaches the thumb a few lessons.

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #24 on: August 21, 2007, 05:49:48 PM »
why 25-11? It is shockingly crap! The harmonies are terrible, the "melody" is dreadful,

you're forgetting solioquy is a modern music fan, so he's into that sort of thing
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #25 on: August 21, 2007, 05:51:35 PM »
I'm a big modern music fan....but op25no11 is still crap. That no excuse.

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #26 on: August 21, 2007, 05:55:05 PM »
I'm a big modern music fan....but op25no11 is still crap. That no excuse.

yes but he prefers modern music to music
elevateme's joke of the week:
If John Terry was a Spartan, the movie 300 would have been called "1."

Offline leonidas

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #27 on: August 21, 2007, 07:32:23 PM »
it covers rotation of the hand, and thats it.

At high speeds, fingers play a major role too.

It's a great piece, if it sounds boring, you're playing it too slow, are you aware of Chopin's metronome marking?
Ist thou hairy?  Nevermore - quoth the shaven-haven.

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #28 on: August 22, 2007, 07:35:09 PM »
Retard it sound boring becasue nobody shapes or phrases it. The speed is irrelevent. The melody itself is crap, it goes nowhere, it comes randomy, and is harmonised boringly. It's obvious why most crap pianists love it, it's fast and loud! PHOAR! Must be hard! 

There is no fingers in the etude, just rotation of the hand. Look at it! The hand is always in a fixed position and the fastest way to get the speed is to rotate, and that is much easier than moving a finger seperatly.

Offline leonidas

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #29 on: August 22, 2007, 07:46:25 PM »
Retard

Perhaps you should publish this autobiography so people know not to waste their time with you next time  :)
Ist thou hairy?  Nevermore - quoth the shaven-haven.

Offline amelialw

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Re: What is the ultimate Chopin Etude?
«Reply #30 on: August 22, 2007, 10:02:03 PM »
I don't think there's an ultimate one, but these are my favourite ones anyway:
Op.10 No.2
Op.10 No.4
Op.10 No.5 "Black Key"
Op.10 No.8 "Sunshine"
Op.10 No.10
Op.10 No.11
Op.25 No.9 "Butterfly"
J.S Bach Italian Concerto,Beethoven Sonata op.2 no.2,Mozart Sonatas K.330&333,Chopin Scherzo no.2,Etude op.10 no.12&Fantasie Impromptu