Honour killing.

[zheer]

    Recently discoverd this particular belief amongst some people. Anyway recently a very young lady fell in-love and was seen with the wrong man, well she was stoned to death in broad day light. Now i know that in the koran it claims that adultry is crime and that he/she will be stoned to death, if witnessed more than three times by the public , guilty of adultry, but this teenage girl was soon a victim of honor killing. What do you guys think, sheesh i aint gona look at some of deez girlyz again .

              What are your thoughts.

[thalbergmad]

To some Western cultures it might seem barbaric, but obviously not to the people who carried it out.

We have had a lot of honour killings in the UK recently, albeit not stonings. I say obey the law of the Country you live in.

I think the incident to which you are referring, caused even more deaths after the stoning.

Does make me a little worried about chatting up foreign looking crumpet at the local cafe.

Thal

[zheer]

I think the incident to which you are referring, caused even more deaths after the stoning.

  It did, you made a valid point regarding the Law of the land, and yes no more chating to muslim women thats for sure .

[thalbergmad]

Maybe if we had stonings in England, we would not have so many English slags who cannot keep their legs together for 5 minutes. This would also reduce the teenage pregnancy rate.

Muslim and Hindu girls are not like that and deserve respect. Family ties also seem much stronger.

I am visiting my local Islamic Learning Centre as pianistimo has put me off Christianity for life.

Thal

[pianistimo]

? nobody could put you off of something you were never on.  at least you had some curiosity to ask some questions - but i think the intent was to make fun of christianity and not take it as seriously as one takes the koran.  but, hey - there are similar laws in the OT.  it's just that when Jesus Christ came - he said - 'whoever looks at a woman to lust for her, has committed adultery with her already in his heart.'  if that is the case - that is the reason why the men who brought the adulterous woman to Jesus - all left when he said 'he who is guiltless should cast the first stone.' 

as i see it - love is not something that one plans.  'for john came neither eating nor drinking, and they say , 'he has a demon.'  the Son of man came eating and drinking (and forgiving what used to be a capital offence - adultery) and they say , behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and SINNERS!  yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.'

as i see it - that last statement is the clincher.  Jesus was a friend to these people - even to the point of defending their lives with his own (as a mob would surely have turned on Jesus from the adulterous woman to Him - without divine protection).  also, he did not join with others to do any sort of evil towards women.  His way of valuing ALL women was to treat them as a sister. 

joseph (Jesus father) was also kind - and never told authorities his wife mary was pregnant.  this was a great kindness that resulted in our Lord being born.

[prometheus]

Those people still live in the time of the bible, or the koran for that matter.

[thalbergmad]

? nobody could put you off of something you were never on. 

I was a Christian and now i am not. Nowhere near as mental as you are, but i was one.

I think you should be stoned for going out with wolfie/

Thal

[pianowolfi]

I think you should be stoned for going out with wolfie/

Thal

Rofl You know, I fell in love with Nofretete (Or is it "Nefretiti"?) and she fell in love with King Tut, so we both got somehow "stoned" lol

[pianistimo]

'nofretete?'  was she the kind of girl that was beautiful but always said 'no?'

thal - just for the record - i wasn't out past 8pm with pianowolfi.  my husband begrudgingly let him come and eat dinner with the family.  then he says - i don't think a trip to the art museum is a good idea.  but, i told him that pianowolfi was a friend and that he wasn't an ax murderer (that i know of).  i told him people that play the piano are typically sedate kinds of people.  it would take an awful lot to get pianowolfi to kill someone.  he wasn't so sure and said 'you never know.'  so, i didn't tell him about leaving for the museum or going to the airport.  what he doesn't know won't hurt him (i think). unless he reads this forum.

btw, i think occasionally keeping one's husband in suspense keeps them on their toes.  of course, too much and one could literally have the movie plot for - 'it happened one sunday.' 

thal, i'm so glad that your mother convinced you at least at one point in your life to try going to church.  when did you quit?  10 years old? 

[teresa_b]

Interesting, isn't it, that the woman is always the one stoned to death for adultery.  Such an appealing religion, Islam.

Teresa

[thalbergmad]

thal, i'm so glad that your mother convinced you at least at one point in your life to try going to church.  when did you quit?  10 years old? 

No, 5 years ago.

First i went on an Alpha course and met some pretty weird tambo bangers and then to put the final nail in the coffin, i came across you.

The compounded effect of the 2 was enough to put me off Christianity for life.

I need a religion that accepts all others and does not create wierdos.

Thal

[pianistimo]

why don't you just speak the truth and say they didn't allow medieval tavern brawling in church? 

ps what is an alpha course? 

btw, i offer an advanced alphaandomega 16 hour certification.  (*and that letter that came in the mail from florida that will make me a millionaire by sending them $100. is real too  )

[ahinton]

I was a Christian and now i am not. Nowhere near as mental as you are, but i was one.

I think you should be stoned for going out with wolfie/

Thal

Maybe she was stoned before she went out with him. Maybe I never said that.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

although, i could offer you a basic alphaandomega 8 hour certification with exam.  we also have a 'train the trainer' with exam - but, that's back at 16 hours.  basically, this one would deal with egyptian history instead of the bible.

[pianowolfi]

Watch out, Siberian Husky is gonna post something here soon *runs and hides*

[Siberian Husky]

Reading my post requires exercising some relativism, as hard as that may be for individuals who struggle percieving the world in ways other than their own.

Suspending judgement, taking the life of an individual as a form of punishment for breaking law, be it governmentally or religiously implemented, plays a reoccuring theme in history's description of man. I can understand why the fatal stoning of a woman for adultery would result given the circumstances and conditions of that specific kind of life. Relativistically, given the fabric of radical islam-- which incorporates the understanding of a woman's role and the importance of obeying dogmatic principles (including with emphasis the relationship between a man and a woman), the stoning of women (and also men) to death for commiting adultery all of a sudden becomes common practice. Analogically as common as imprisoning those who realize their pediphillic tendancies in the Western World; and as common as not implementing punishment for commiting abortion (although the country remains split with this issue).

Once again, it comes down to the relativistic nature that creates divides within the human race.

An answer to these comparison questions;--"What is more right, What is more wrong?"-- requires an intellectual tool. This intellectual tool should need to manifest itself as a universal understanding among all, kind of like a universal principle or law.

It is often argued that the most basic universal principle, that should be acknowledged and obeyed by all, is the idea that one musnt encroach upon anothers being without consent. Western in origin, this universal prinicple is broad at best, but lays a solid foundation for creating boundaries and creating stemming principles that contribute to a society with order, a global society that shares a common good. Some would say that the aforementioned universal principle is too liberal, for who is man to cognize or CREATE a law that envelopes the being of every person. This principle, however, may realize itself via adhering to a higher power, and this is when things begin to create unbridgable divides, which I personally find distasteful and a shame. My opinion on this is a product of my dislike for totality and its devices in belief systems.

Back to the original topic.

Emotionally, I am automatically inclined to deny justification for the stoning of a woman or man for commiting adultery. Too many variables play such intricate roles in the life of a human being that constitute and contribute to the actions we make for us to take life based on an action percieved under the dogmatic spectrum of though. Husbands beat wives, some people are just not meant to be together. One very solid truth regarding human beings, is our diversity on an  individual level. Knowing this truth, and pairing it with a custom that emphasizes arranged marriages--the result is self explanatory and there are bound to be couples who simply can not work together.

I am not condoning adultery, if marriage, or any relationship, is not fucntioning as it should, I find it important for both individuals to find mediums in communication to realize incompatabilities and eventually remeasure the value of that particular relationship. Islam, of course, is very much against divorce--a common ideal with the top 3 religions. A religious social atmosphere sometimes makes it difficult for people to lead happy lives, but it is also true that many choose the religious life for the happiness it brings them. Now we have a situation consisting of a religiously instituted society, containing religious followers and non-followers. The non-followers, the adulterers, will suffer the consequences.

I love religion, very much, because to me, religion is the perfect exemplification of the human spirit and its strength. Religion is very strong and brings both the best and worste out of an individual, based on whatever angle of the window your observing from. I am, however, a believer in a separation of church and state, simply because of diversity and diversity alone. Until only one form of church exists (never), the unification of humans to strive for a common good may only be made possible by leaving religious thread out of the fabric that weaves society together.

[pianistimo]

i believe in the separation of church and state, too.  and, agree about some universal laws which seem to prevail in most countries.  the most radical being the punishments for adultery and murder and typically brought to justice by the victims family in cases where they are caught. 

[prometheus]

Interesting, isn't it, that the woman is always the one stoned to death for adultery.  Such an appealing religion, Islam.

Teresa

Better adults than children.

Well, I mean stoning children is even worse.

[Siberian Husky]

Watch out, Siberian Husky is gonna post something here soon *runs and hides*

woof

[jlh]

Rofl You know, I fell in love with Nofretete (Or is it "Nefretiti"?) and she fell in love with King Tut, so we both got somehow "stoned" lol

Nefertiti 

[zheer]

Interesting, isn't it, that the woman is always the one stoned to death for adultery.  Such an appealing religion, Islam.

Teresa

   The ones that did the stoning were not muslim, the women was seen with a muslim sunni man, she was stoned by her own family member, who are not muslim, but people that draw on the belief of christainity and judaism. Though generally speaking this is most common amongst muslims in the mid - east and Europe.

[ahinton]

Maybe if we had stonings in England, we would not have so many English slags who cannot keep their legs together for 5 minutes. This would also reduce the teenage pregnancy rate.

But maybe it might also mean that we'd eventually run out of stones...

Muslim and Hindu girls are not like that and deserve respect. Family ties also seem much stronger.

This may be true in many cases, but not necessarily all...

I am visiting my local Islamic Learning Centre as pianistimo has put me off Christianity for life.

Is that your only - and a good enough - reason to go there? Anyway, I wish you joy of the experience and hope that you're careful what you say to whom while there.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

? nobody could put you off of something you were never on.

I don't think that you have a right to make that statement, Susan; how do you know what Thal's views on Christianity may have been or how his various life experiences may have altered that view?

at least you had some curiosity to ask some questions - but i think the intent was to make fun of christianity and not take it as seriously as one takes the koran.

I cannot and in any case should not seek to speak for Thal, but I rather doubt that; in fact, I do not even think that he has actually been "put off Christianity for life" but I do think that he has been "put off" the kind of people who bring Jesus, God and Bible into almost every conversation regardless of relevance to its subject and who parade it as in every way superior to any other faith or none - in other words, the Christian Fundamentalists.

but, hey - there are similar laws in the OT.  it's just that when Jesus Christ came - he said - 'whoever looks at a woman to lust for her, has committed adultery with her already in his heart.'  if that is the case - that is the reason why the men who brought the adulterous woman to Jesus - all left when he said 'he who is guiltless should cast the first stone.' 

Well, at least this appears to be correct and setting of some kind of historical precedent for the act of stoning in such a context, but whereas Christians no longer stone those guilty of adultery (either real or in the way you say that Jesus described it - and he had a point, albeit a somewhat semantic one, I think), some Muslims are not above that kind of retributory action in countries where it is not necessarily against the law to commit it.

Obeying the law of the land that one is in at any time, as Thal urges, is indeed wise advice, but it need not lead to a belief that all laws are necessarily appropriate just because they happen to exist on certain countries' statute books. With today's much greater interaction of people of different faiths, races, etc. in terms of travel, immigration/emigration and other communication and the wider opportunities thereby granted to so many people to learn and absorb more of cultuires other than their own, one might argue that, for example, it behoves Muslims to consider why most countries' laws do not condone the stoning of adulterers, just as it behoves non-Muslims to consider issues that affect Muslims. The point here is that "religious" laws - or rather their interpretation - whether Christian, Muslim or otherwise, often come with the potential danger of immutability, whereas other laws are far more likely to take due cognisance of the fact that life moves on.

as i see it - love is not something that one plans.  'for john came neither eating nor drinking, and they say , 'he has a demon.'  the Son of man came eating and drinking (and forgiving what used to be a capital offence - adultery) and they say , behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and SINNERS!  yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.'

I'm sure that some of us nowadays regard our tax gatheres as sinners, but why are you citing yet more of this 2,00o-year-old stuff when the subject is a present-day one?

as i see it - that last statement is the clincher.  Jesus was a friend to these people - even to the point of defending their lives with his own (as a mob would surely have turned on Jesus from the adulterous woman to Him - without divine protection).  also, he did not join with others to do any sort of evil towards women.  His way of valuing ALL women was to treat them as a sister. 

joseph (Jesus father) was also kind - and never told authorities his wife mary was pregnant.  this was a great kindness that resulted in our Lord being born.

Fair comment in most respects (although, yet again, its strict relevance to the thread subject is at best somewhat tenuous). Where you depart from literal veracity is in the last bit where the pregnancy of Joseph's wife led to the birth of their son - no more, no less; if some people decided to regard that son as their "Lord", that was their prerogative but this could logically only have come about when Jesus was very much older rather than at the time of his birth.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Maybe if we had stonings in England, we would not have so many English slags who cannot keep their legs together for 5 minutes.

Doncha fink that you might be spendin too much time in the company of Essix gels, Thal? - and, if so, this must be something of a conscious decision, since Gravesend was in Kent when last I looked...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

No, 5 years ago.

First i went on an Alpha course and met some pretty weird tambo bangers and then to put the final nail in the coffin, i came across you.

The compounded effect of the 2 was enough to put me off Christianity for life.

I need a religion that accepts all others and does not create wierdos.

Thal

Well, I am not a Christian, as you know, but I think it would be a shame if these experiences had "put you off Christianity for life", given that Christianity itself neither creates weirdos nor is unaccepting of other persuasions - only certain Christians (and others, of course) ever do that. In any case, it would be perfectly possible for you to accept Christianity on its own terms without necessarily having to be a Christian yourself.

Get some pliers and take that nail out of the coffin before it rusts, Thal!

Best,

Alistair

[gerry]

    Recently discoverd this particular belief amongst some people. Anyway recently a very young lady fell in-love and was seen with the wrong man, well she was stoned to death in broad day light. Now i know that in the koran it claims that adultry is crime and that he/she will be stoned to death, if witnessed more than three times by the public , guilty of adultry, but this teenage girl was soon a victim of honor killing. What do you guys think, sheesh i aint gona look at some of deez girlyz again .

              What are your thoughts.

It's a barbaric, tribal, practice still carried on by certain subsects of unelightened, and unevolved people--period. While we're at it let's not forget non-anesthesized female circumcision.

[zheer]

It's a barbaric, tribal, practice still carried on by certain subsects of unelightened, and unevolved people--period. While we're at it let's not forget non-anesthesized female circumcision.

  yes you are right its  tribal practice.

     

 After watching this clip i,ve decided not to mess with muslims.It's what happend recently when 2 tribal group were in conflict, due to the tragedy.

[mcgillcomposer]

    Recently discoverd this particular belief amongst some people. Anyway recently a very young lady fell in-love and was seen with the wrong man, well she was stoned to death in broad day light. Now i know that in the koran it claims that adultry is crime and that he/she will be stoned to death, if witnessed more than three times by the public , guilty of adultry, but this teenage girl was soon a victim of honor killing. What do you guys think, sheesh i aint gona look at some of deez girlyz again .

              What are your thoughts.

It's sickening. When will we stop defending truly despicable acts with religion?

[mcgillcomposer]

Interesting, isn't it, that the woman is always the one stoned to death for adultery.  Such an appealing religion, Islam.

Teresa

Ya, it gives you some insight into the ignorance that went into the writing of the Koran. Simply inexcusable in this day and age.

[pianowolfi]

It's a barbaric, tribal, practice still carried on by certain subsects of unelightened, and unevolved people--period. While we're at it let's not forget non-anesthesized female circumcision.

Very true. Female circumcision is anyway one of the most abhorrent crimes, often just ignored and neglected by the authorities.

[ahinton]

Very true. Female circumcision is anyway one of the most abhorrent crimes, often just ignored and neglected by the authorities.

This is indeed the case even when performed under an anæsthetic (which it often isn't); it's even worse and more barbaric when perfomed without one - worse than premeditated rape, I'd suggest.

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

While we're at it let's not forget non-anesthesized female circumcision.

Wich has nothing to do with Islam and is carried out by all religious and ethnic groups in the areas it is used. A terrible costum for sure.

[mephisto]

Ya, it gives you some insight into the ignorance that went into the writing of the Koran. Simply inexcusable in this day and age.

The Bible isn't any better. The Bible asks any women who have been raped in a city to be stoned. The reason is because she was in a city and didn't yell for help. i can give you the exact chapter if you want to.

[teresa_b]

Well, whether or not the people who did this particular stoning were Muslim, whatever religion they followed that would condone such behavior is despicable.  In fact I think it's safe to say that all the "great" monotheistic religions have spurred people to behave badly--and women have often borne the brunt of the horrors.

Teresa

[prometheus]

The bible tells you to stone children where the koran tells you to stone woman.




Wasn't that girl that was stoned to death by her tribe from Yazidi tribe? And wasn't she stones for having a relation with a boy from a muslim tribe?

[pianistimo]

God is all about restitution and giving women a proper place in society (not to be raped in the first place).  exodus 22:16 'and if a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife.'

as i see it - if a woman is truly a follower of Jesus - she won't be in places that she will be easily raped (bars, etc).  that eliminates half the problem.  also, she won't be alone (her family - whether father/mother/sister/bros - or her own family - husband and children) because her family is her protection. 

the bible shows the example of the brothers of one sister who was raped getting revenge on a group.  this would put the 'fear' so to speak into anyone who would dare rape their sister or whomever!

nowdays we don't have as large of families - but i still recognize the safety in numbers.  i don't think God was picking on women/men who were chaste - but rather men/women who were seeking to eliminate chastity as a goal for women and men before marriage.  and, the seriousness of their actions. 

nowdays - without religion - no one really chases rapists.  they, in fact, blame it on the woman who attended the sorority party - or had too much to drink - or was wearing skimpy clothing.  what about the man?  did he have no control because he was drinking and that is a legal reason?  or, that secretly some women don't deserve any respect?  i don't think this is the case even in a worst-case scenario.

even if a woman dresses seductively, goes into a bar, and sits alone - leaves - and then some ax-murderer cuts her into a million pieces - that it was her fault.  young women often do stupid things.  BUT, it doesn't mean that they deserve this.  isn't there some place in the bible that mentions how God would care for a woman.  dressing her in the finest silks and linens and clothing her feet in sandals of porpoise skin - adorning her with jewelry (the intent here - is to value a woman for mind and body - and treating her so well that she would never leave).

[pianistimo]

ezekiel 16:10 - how God treats the church (the bride or woman) - 'i also clothed you with embroidered cloth, and put sandals of porpoise skin on your feet; and i wrapped you with fine linen and covered you with silk.  and i adorned you with ornaments, but bracelets on your hands, and a necklace around your neck.  i also put a ring in your nostril, earrings on your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head.  thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your dress was of fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth.  you ate fine flour, honey, and oil; so you were exceedingly beautiful and advanced to royalty.'

this is how God explains His idea of treatment of women.  there is no place inthe bible that suggests God thinks women are inferior.

[ahinton]

God is all about restitution and giving women a proper place in society (not to be raped in the first place).

God again! Always more God! God no more gives anyone any places anywhere than he prevents women from being raped (or circumcised, for that matter).

prevent exodus 22:16 'and if a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife.'

And this was written when?...

as i see it - if a woman is truly a follower of Jesus - she won't be in places that she will be easily raped (bars, etc).

So no women will ever even work in such places? And who determines what places these shall be? And who can tell in what kind of place a woman can be raped? - some places might be more obvious candidates than others, but women have been raped on trains, in university classrooms in public parks and all kinds of places, so if you are to exclude even only those places where women are already known to have been raped, your commendations to them as to where they should be at any given moment would be infinitely more proscriptive than any decrees ever issued by Muslim extremists.

that eliminates half the problem.

It does nothing of the kind.

also, she won't be alone (her family - whether father/mother/sister/bros - or her own family - husband and children) because her family is her protection.

So you are now adding to your proscriptiveness towards women that they must never go anywhere unchaperoned? Your absurdity of expression is scaling hiterto unprecedented heights here...

the bible shows the example of the brothers of one sister who was raped getting revenge on a group.  this would put the 'fear' so to speak into anyone who would dare rape their sister or whomever!

Why would it be guaranteed to do that? Many people of either sex would be too fearful to seek such revenge and, if the rapist/s were armed at the time, such people might be wise to be fearful...

nowdays - without religion - no one really chases rapists.  they, in fact, blame it on the woman who attended the sorority party - or had too much to drink - or was wearing skimpy clothing.  what about the man?  did he have no control because he was drinking and that is a legal reason?  or, that secretly some women don't deserve any respect?  i don't think this is the case even in a worst-case scenario.

even if a woman dresses seductively, goes into a bar, and sits alone - leaves - and then some ax-murderer cuts her into a million pieces - that it was her fault.  young women often do stupid things.  BUT, it doesn't mean that they deserve this.

I agree with most of this, but again you are being too simplistic here; by no means everyone considers that women who have been raped "had it coming to them" in every case. In any case, you refer only to raping of women by men andomit any reference to raping of men by women or same-sex rape by either sex.

isn't there some place in the bible that mentions how God would care for a woman.  dressing her in the finest silks and linens and clothing her feet in sandals of porpoise skin - adorning her with jewelry (the intent here - is to value a woman for mind and body - and treating her so well that she would never leave).

You're actually ASKING if there's some place in the Bible that says something? I though that you knew it verbatim by heart!

Anyway, this has yet again strayed from the topic into more Biblical prattlings that are simply not pertinent to present-day "honour killings".

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

ezekiel 16:10 - how God treats the church (the bride or woman) - 'i also clothed you with embroidered cloth, and put sandals of porpoise skin on your feet; and i wrapped you with fine linen and covered you with silk.  and i adorned you with ornaments, but bracelets on your hands, and a necklace around your neck.  i also put a ring in your nostril, earrings on your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head.  thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your dress was of fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth.  you ate fine flour, honey, and oil; so you were exceedingly beautiful and advanced to royalty.'

this is how God explains His idea of treatment of women.  there is no place inthe bible that suggests God thinks women are inferior.

But has anyone ever suggested otherwise here? I do not see the purpose of your quoting this passage from Ezekiel here, since it proves nothing that has been challenged in this thread. Yes, it is true that some barbaric practices have occurred and been condoned both by certain religious governments and by certain people in countries without religious governments in the name of some religion or other but, for all that this is deeply repellent, no one here - as far as I can tell - is actually accusing God Himself of mistreating women.

Once again, Susan, you seem to be grabbing any and every opportunity and none to write more about God, the Bible and the like when such writing is not immediately pertinent to the subject under discussion. Don't you think you ought at least to try to recognise this fact and attempt to seek appropriate treatment for this obsessive-compulsive disorder?

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Once again, Susan, you seem to be grabbing any and every opportunity and none to write more about God, the Bible and the like

If it was a thread about the life of Basil Brush, she would get God into it somehow.

Thal

[ahinton]

If it was a thread about the life of Basil Brush, she would get God into it somehow.

Thal

As in God created the delicions herb that we know as basil and we all need to brush up our Bible (as in Cole Porter's Brush up your Shakespeare - come to think of it, one could even get her to brush up on both and thereby land her a guest spot on Desert Island Discs)...

Best,

Alistair

[gerry]

It's just as I suspected all along. If you press F2 while holding down PrtSc at the same time you press Ctrl/Alt/Del, type a word and press Enter with your big toe, you activate a special setting that sounds an alarm whenever certain words (like  "bible" or "religion") materialize on this forum. You are then free to abandon logic and immediately begin typing with one hand while holding what seems to be a black book in the other.

[pianowolfi]

It's just as I suspected all along. If you press F2 while holding down PrtSc at the same time you press Ctrl/Alt/Del, type a word and press Enter with your big toe, you activate a special setting that sounds an alarm whenever certain words (like  "bible" or "religion") materialize on this forum. You are then free to abandon logic and immediately begin typing with one hand while holding what seems to be a black book in the other.

I have tried that and it's physically impossible.

roflmaoasdc+rmf+dol+.....anyway

[teresa_b]

God is all about restitution and giving women a proper place in society

Oh dear, then by many measures, I've not kept my "place" and would certainly be an uppity woman! 

nowdays - without religion - no one really chases rapists. 

Beg to differ.  With   religion, no one chases rapists.  Most commonly, religion dictates that it is the woman who is to be stoned (or perhaps only shunned) if she is raped. 

Teresa

[thalbergmad]

Beg to differ.  With   religion, no one chases rapists.  Most commonly, religion dictates that it is the woman who is to be stoned (or perhaps only shunned) if she is raped. 

You are likely to get an incoherent garbled 900 work response to that.

Thal

[pianistimo]

where does it say this?  i can't find it.

lev. 20:10 'if there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.'

now, Jesus Christ could have followed this OT precept and said - 'take her away'- when they brought the adulterous woman to him.  but, instead of that he asked who was guiltless.  so this brings up the idea that in cases of adultery - we have two consenting people who have sinned and need forgiveness.

and, in cases of rape - i do not see anywhere (at least yet ) that the man is not held as guilty as the woman.  'do not profane your daughter by making her a harlot, so that the land may not fall to harlotry, and the land become full of lewdness.'  this is a choice.  in the usa solicitation for prostitution is a crime.  the majority of women who are raped are easy targets, and often get killed in the process. 

perhaps the topic was 'honor killing' - but that is not even mentioned in the bible.  the honor that a person has is given to them by the forgiveness of their sins by Jesus Christ.  to choose a better way.  this society certainly doesn't give direction - but the bible does.  it gives us wisdom in how to live our lives so that we will be blessed.  and safe.  I cor 15:33 'do not be deceived:  bad company corrupts good morals. become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God....'  paul explains earlier that he 'dies daily.'  what does that mean?  it means he put aside his own feelings for what was God's will.

Christ going out into the wilderness was a sort of parable of how we are tempted by sin.  paul noted this when he said 'why are we also in danger every hour....if the dead are not raised, let us eat and drink, for tommorrow we die.'  but, if young men and older men considered what paul told timothy - nobody would be raped or honor killed because no rape would exist.  and, i do not believe women rape men.  that is a misnomer because the man would have to be a boy and the boy would have to consent unless tied up and forced to 'get it on.'  i have not heard of any 'non-consentual' type of woman raping a man.  it's just a sort of myth.  one that some men probably fantasize about instead of worry about.  that is why God holds a man responsible for the woman.  in our society it isn't so...but, that was the universal order and still is.  men are stronger than women.

[prometheus]

According to the bible it's ok to rape a woman. As long as you marry her afterward and pay  her family.


They don't want to be stuck with a non-virgin daughter without a husband because she is useless to them.


They lived in primtive barbaric tribes...

[pianistimo]

are you saying you would choose a slut over a virgin?  perhaps that is harsh language - but really, it's what young girls are taught in society.  to be superficially attractive and thus garner attention at a young age.  but, the thing is - it's really disrespectful to women to treat them equally.  they are not equal.  they need protection and defence instead of offence.  it's just wierd to think that men consider the bible barbaric - when it is today's standards that are.  to not care if you do or don't open a door?  i think life was better for women when they were treated like women. 

also, in your example, if the man found the woman attractive enough to rape - then he would be getting just desserts.  the responsibility of the baby .  today, there are a lot of unwed mothers because of a lack of this law.  laws, imo, are what hold a society together.  the more they leave - the more the society becomes lawless and chaotic.  society pays for the health insurance instead of the fathers.

i know i think too much, but do you ever wonder why the usa is in such a financial mess?  it is not just greed and the recent selling of sub-prime mortgages (or risky mortgages made with high risk mortgagees and sold to international investors as though they are not risky).  it started with stuff like this - losing money right and left in the insurance industry.  also, ceo's were starting to take off with large sums of corporate profits 10 years ago.  did we think it would be unnoticed?  why were they doing so?  did they not believe in the us economy?  were they hedging themselves?  why?  it wasn't sub-prime mortgages back then.

[gerry]

are you saying you would choose a slut over a virgin? 
 
 but, the thing is - it's really disrespectful to women to treat them equally.  they are not equal.  they need protection and defence instead of offence.  i think life was better for women when they were treated like women. 

i know i think too much,

 

[mcgillcomposer]

The Bible isn't any better. The Bible asks any women who have been raped in a city to be stoned. The reason is because she was in a city and didn't yell for help. i can give you the exact chapter if you want to.

I agree with you 100%.