Is anyone homeschooled?

[pianoplayer88]

I was just curious to see if anyone else on pianostreet is homeschooled. This is my seventh year in homeschooling. (I'm in 9th grade now.) So, if you reply to this topic, please tell me if you are homeschooled and how long you have been homeschooled.

[prometheus]

It's illegal here. And rightly so.

I doubt your parents are professional teachers. So if they aren't I would demand from them to go to a real school.

I know, I know, public schools in the US aren't that great.

[zheer]

please tell me if you are homeschooled and how long you have been homeschooled.

  As a child i was not homeschooled , but i can safely say that my education began once i left school.Here in England a number of children are.

[maul]

homeschooled kids = drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr on not only education, but social interaction.

[thalbergmad]

Here in England a number of children are.

That is true and it is required due to the ever falling standards of education and ever increasing class sizes.

An alarming amount of our children are leaving school without the ability to read and write properly and carry out basic mathematics without the aid of a calculator. In addition, the dumbing down of examination standards has resulted in so many with A grades that the Universties cannot tell apart the good from the not so good.

Only last week an Oxford Prof was complaining that they were having to complete some students secondary education before they were able to even start there courses.

Bloody shambles.

Thal

[elspeth]

I wasn't home schooled as such - went to normal schools during my academic years - but that said, both my parents are teachers, and I'd learned more reading and maths from them than I ever did at primary school. Ever after, I learned almost nothing in English lessons and only started to learn anything new in maths after the age of about 13 when the material became a bit more advanced.

I think the problem with home schooling - the socialising aspects aside - is the specialism of subjects. My parents' specialist subjects are history and languages, but mine turned out to be maths, physics and music. My parents - both qualified experienced teachers - couldn't have taught me those subjects well enough to go on to university to read physics. Had I wanted to read history or languages (and I was interested in both, just not enough to want to study them to a high level) I would've been well away and got a second-to-none specialist education, but that would've been bad as I wouldn't have had the breadth of education I needed.

[elsie07]

I am in college now, but I was home schooled through high school.  I loved it.  My dad had a good education in science and mathematics, and my mom in the humanities such as history and literature, so between the two of them, I was able to get an excellent, customized education (which followed my state's requirements, by the way).  I attended a class with other home schoolers once a week, for two and a half years and that was also a great experience.

Regarding socialization... that wasn't a problem for me at all.  I have many friends, both home schooled and non-home schooled, and over the years I have been involved in music (obviously ), sports, church, volunteer work, etc.  Home schooling has given me the opportunity to get to know people from all walks of life, which would probably not have happened if I was in traditional school.  I have lots of friends who are my own age, but I also know many, many people (with different religions, ethnic backgrounds languages) besides just my peers.

Home schooling has also enabled me to get individualized instruction from people who are highly educated despite not being professional teachers, and I have had more time to pursue interests such as music and writing.  I have a love for learning that, I believe, is due in large part to having this freedom to explore.

I have also developed close relationships with my parents and brother, since I spent a lot more time with them than I would if I was in a traditional school; though as my brother and I got older, we were away from home more because of all the activities we were involved in, but my family still has a close relationship.

I had a serious illness during high school and it would have been impossible for me to attend a traditional school without getting far behind, so home schooling was helpful in that it gave me more flexibility for when I did my work.  On days that I was really sick, I could do less work, and then make up for it on days when I felt better.

Overall, home schooling was a tremendous experience for me.  Now that I'm in college, I look back on my home schooling days and am so thankful that I had that opportunity.  Sure, there are some downsides to being home schooled (for me, it was that I did not have the time management skills that I would have had if I was in regular school), and now that I'm in a classroom I find that I love it and would maybe have enjoyed it earlier, but I think that the pros far outweigh the cons.  I agree that home schooling is not for everyone, but it was definitely for me.  I encourage those of you who are skeptical about home schooling to consider both sides of the issue before condemning it as a bad idea.

I could probably say more...but I'll get off my soapbox now.

[wotgoplunk]

I was just curious to see if anyone else on pianostreet is homeschooled. This is my seventh year in homeschooling. (I'm in 9th grade now.) So, if you reply to this topic, please tell me if you are homeschooled and how long you have been homeschooled.

Nope. But being in 9th grade is very different to regular school anyway...the sooner you jump into the public system, the better it will be, socially, and even academically. It gives you groupwork etc.

Having just started grade 9, it's much better. There's tutoring to suit your needs in most cases, and you can get a much wider background of extra-curricular stuff you can do. We even have a Dance Dance Revolution team! 

It will enhance your resume, plus your social life.

[timothy42b]

Overall, home schooling was a tremendous experience for me.  Now that I'm in college, I look back on my home schooling days and am so thankful that I had that opportunity. 

You are an example of how well home schooling CAN work.  it doesn't always turn out that well, because some of the parents who feel so strongly about doing it aren't actually as good as they think.

It is also fairly unusual for home school kids to go on to college (one reason why home schoolers tend to do well on college admission tests - only a tiny fraction of them ever take the tests, because so few want college).  But it is certainly possible. 

I have to point out something that may be unexpected to our European colleagues.  What you got was a standard school curriculum with the only difference being who gave it to you (your parents vs teachers).  There is also in the US and perhaps elsewhere a movement called unschooling, which totally rejects standard curriculum.  The theory is that the child and only the child knows what is best for him/her, so you don't provide any guidance at all.  You let them learn what they want, at whatever pace they want.  Do a google search, you'll be astounded.

[prometheus]

I think that every child needs to be educated by someone well grounded in the field.

A teenager learning math should learn this from a person that has dedicated his or her life to math and is thus enthusiastic and passionate about it and can teach it with confidence and expertize.

[elsie07]

I think that every child needs to be educated by someone well grounded in the field.

A teenager learning math should learn this from a person that has dedicated his or her life to math and is thus enthusiastic and passionate about it and can teach it with confidence and expertize.

I agree that people should be educated by those who are well grounded in their field, enthusiastic, passionate, confident, and expertise.  But does this mean that people who don't have a degree in one particular field of study (such as math or history) cannot adequately teach?  I think it does not.  Especially at the lower grades, one does not need a college education to give a child a good education.  Much of what is taught in the early years is either common knowledge or does not require a high level of expertise to understand and teach.  At the higher grades, they do require a higher level of knowledge, but I think that in those cases each parent can teach the areas that they know well, and supplement their child's education with other classes.  At least in my area, it is common for home schooling families to "trade" teaching.  One parent who is knowledgeable in science will teach that subject to children whose parents don't know as much about science but who are knowledgeable in literature, and the other parent will teach literature to the science teacher's children.  There are many ways to learn besides sitting in a classroom, though I do think that this has a place.  And as I said in my previous post, home schooling does not work for everyone.  But I also don't think that public school works for everyone.

[Derek]

It's illegal here. And rightly so.

I doubt your parents are professional teachers. So if they aren't I would demand from them to go to a real school.

I know, I know, public schools in the US aren't that great.

Why should home schooling be illegal?

BTW, I was homeschooled in 8th grade, 11th grade and 12th grade here in the united states. I HATED public school with a passion. I didn't fit in with anyone, and was widely disliked and shunned. I was quite depressed when my parents pulled me out. Very soon after I started learning guitar and piano. I identify powerfully with home schooling. Even when I was in public school, I never paid attention, I slept.  When I went home, I talked for hours with my parents. That is why I was always ridiculed in public school for having a big vocabulary and socially shunned, I seemed smarter than everyone. I know I wasn't, in fact, smarter (than everyone, certainly some of course), but the bottom line is, public school is a dismal failure here (especially for unique individuals who do not respond to incentives like getting a letter for working hard). Homeschooling turned me into who I am today, and I am very happy with who I am. If homeschooling ever became illegal here in the united states, I will MOVE to another country where it is legal, or maybe somewhere where the public schooling system doesn't suck. Which is most everywhere but the US.

[Derek]

There are many ways to learn besides sitting in a classroom, though I do think that this has a place.  And as I said in my previous post, home schooling does not work for everyone.  But I also don't think that public school works for everyone.

Quite right. public school utterly and completely failed in my case. homeschooling turned me into a confident individual who can contribute to society and has some extremely satisfying hobbies to accompany that. If I'd stayed in public school, I 1) wouldn't have become a musician 2) probably would not have gotten the degree in computer science that I have 3) might not have gotten as good a job  4) would not have met my fiance   5) would be depressed and possibly suicidal (probably not, I am engaging in hyperbole).  so whenever someone says homeschooling is bad, I want to *** punch them in the face.

[prometheus]

But does this mean that people who don't have a degree in one particular field of study (such as math or history) cannot adequately teach?  I think it does not.  Especially at the lower grades, one does not need a college education to give a child a good education.

Even at the low level 'high school' and in the lower classes I think it is important. Children, they will know. Sure, it doesn't have to happen in each class.

It should never happen that a teacher is expected to prepare a student for a level of education the teacher was never able to reach. You can't have college graduates teaching children that will go to university.

At the higher grades, they do require a higher level of knowledge, but I think that in those cases each parent can teach the areas that they know well, and supplement their child's education with other classes.

Why do people home school anyway?

I really do get the idea that they just don't want their child to get a good education.

[prometheus]

Why should home schooling be illegal?

Because every child has the right to an education. At least, it has here. And no parent should stand in it's way. So every child is obliged to go to school until 18 or 19. If parents don't allow this they can end up going to jail or end up losing custody.

BTW, I was homeschooled in 8th grade, 11th grade and 12th grade here in the united states.

And were you able to get a good education? Are your parents teachers? How do they teach you something like calculus?

I HATED public school with a passion.

Same here for most years. Only bright spots was the expertise of good teachers.

The problem with public school is incompetent teacher. And that is almost always teachers who can't be ambassadors for their subjects. A teacher needs to conquer the hearts of even the most disinterested students. The only way they can do this is impress them with their knowledge.

These teachers are also much more confident. And children sense lack of confidence.



I know it is almost better to either go to a private school or to move to another country and go to another country where the state can provide proper and even excellent public schools. But I think think there are many western countries that allow home schooling. It's uniquely a US thing. And it's probably a fundamentalist Christian thing because they just don't want their children to be educated because this damages their faith.

[prometheus]

So whenever someone says homeschooling is bad, I want to *** punch them in the face.

This maybe proves the point that homeschooling is bad.


If I was able I would probably allow you to punch me in the face.

[timothy42b]

Why do people home school anyway?

Lots of reasons, and some of them are good ones.  I'm not a fan of homeschooling and would never have done it myself, but some friends and relatives have succeeded.

One reason is that in your local area the available schools might not be good or might not be safe (particularly if you belong to some type of minority).

Another reason is that your child has unique needs that can't be met well in the public school.

The most common reason, at least in the US, is that your religion suggests it.  People can learn all sorts of bad things in public school, like science, logic, tolerance of diversity, etc., that has a strongly negative effect on what you allow your children to believe. 

[zheer]

    Intresting thread, well if i had my time all over again, i would change a lot of things mainly the schools i went to. From age4 -10 i was badly beaten by teachers, slaps, sticks,and psycological beating, that really damaged my self confidance. Secondly i would have changed the secondary school i atended, recently discoverd through news-paper that it failed to meet government standard, one of the worst school in west London.
    Homeschooling sounds good through teenage years,only if privat teachers are employed by the parents to do the teaching, with other homeschooled kids meeting each other from time to time.I mean how many parents can honestly say they can teach all subject, and earn money to bring up a family.

[Derek]

some people just happen to do better motivating themselves to learn. I taught myself to program, and did well in a computer science program in college. I taught myself to play piano, and now it is an extremely satisfying hobby. no public school, no private school, no parents had anything to do with that, except getting public school out of my face so I could do what I wanted and become the man that I am.  I was never externally motivated by rewards of any kind, I am purely internally motivated. When something inspires me, I do it. When someone says: "I'll put an A on a piece of paper for you if you be my slave for the next year or so" I pretty much ignore them and fall asleep.  It is a shame home schooling is illegal in some countries, I'm sure there are some individuals there who would have been better off teaching themselves. maybe not though...this might be a problem unique to the US and other places which have terrible public schooling.

[wotgoplunk]

I would just like to point out, everyone fits in somewhere at their school, regardless of interests.

I just moved into mine from the Catholic system (*vomit*).

It really isn't a problem.

I like debating: Law club.
Clarinet: Concert Band.
Acting: Improv Club.
Piano: Eta Pi Society (Group for musicians who perform 3 concerts a semester).
General Knowledge Questions: Trivia Club

You can find tons of stuff at a public school where you'll fit in fine, homeschooling doesn't allow that.

[rc]

School...

In the 12th grade a teacher confessed that he thought the most important thing we learn in school is social skills, that we'd be lucky to retain 5% of the facts they make us memorize.  I agree with him and wish I goofed off more in class.  All I remember are bits of trivia here and there, and every highschool dropout I talk to is insecure about it - not having these trivia tidbits.

One friend likened school to a ranch, like sheep we move from area to area at the ring of a bell, we learn obedience and conformity.  Not as bad as it sounds because society needs some measure of obedience and conformity to function.

Another friend makes the point that in any given highschool class there MAY be one or two people who actually use the information.  the rest are just kinda passing time, kept out of trouble.

Reading, writing and basic math are indispensable.  We get that by grade 6ish.  The rest I found not entirely useless but highly overrated.

Post-secondary I haven't gone to, not sure if I will.  Though I talk to a lot of students, and I'm even more doubtful of the use of university.  It seems like quite the business, "we're not concerned if what you learn does any good, but your money is good".  My brother tells me that the student culture is one of hedonism, this makes sense when the vast majority of students I meet are drunk.  Yet they must have some sort of self-rightous protest, and I've heard of a petition being signed because they want the government to pay for more of their education (so they can afford more beers?).  I only know ONE guy who went to school and just did school.

There is my experience.  I learn more on my own through books, thinking with my own brain, experience and talking to people.

[Mozartian]

-

[thalbergmad]

Nothing like blowing your own trumpet.

Thal

[zheer]

Nothing like blowing your own trumpet.

Thal

  LOL ,never liked Mozartian i think i know why now.

[thalbergmad]

She is president of the "I love myself" Society.

Thal

[ahinton]

She is president of the "I love myself" Society.

Thal

...but she can at least spell "definitely", which is more than seem to be able to do around these parts...

Best,

Alistair

[prometheus]

possibly.

[Mozartian]

-

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

There is no clear cut answer to the inquiry about the validity of homeschooling. As some members may have mentioned, both homeschooling and schooling(fun play on the words) do have their deficits. Both methods differ with each other depending on the circumstance. It depends alot on many factors such as whether the parents or guardians are good at instructing. It also depends on the quality of education one might get if sent to a public school. What is the point in sending a child to a less than competent school? Even though this is my opinion, and I do say this from experience, I believe that there is an element of truth in the following example about school efficiency. All students in the school that I went to had to take a mandatory course that covers Government and Economy matters. Naturally, I confronted myself with the textbook for that class and in 2 weeks, I aquired more information than the entire semester tried to inculcate. This is because the majority of the class time is spent on useless activities that only take up time. This is course is just an example of the inefficiencies of school. Many teachers are poor teachers, just as many parents are good pedagogues. If a parent knows the given curriculum subject well, there is no reason to not homeschool the child. However since this is often not the case most parents choose to send their kids to schools.

[pinoypianist]

- went to normal schools during my academic years -

Are schools normal?

[thalbergmad]

Sure, not all homeschooled kids turn out to be balanced and well-educated individuals

indeed

[maul]

ahahahahah mozartian. Stop. You're making me laugh. No, really. Stop. Please.

[Mozartian]

-

[thalbergmad]

I see the results of homeschooling on the last post. Must have been done by someone who is balanced and well educated.

Anyway, good riddance to bad rubbish and hopefully you will actually not come back this time. At the moment, you have had more comebacks than Evander Holyfield.

Hopefully you will find inventive ways of financing your further education.

Love and drop dead.

Thal

[maul]

*LAFFZZZZZZ*

Dang, this mozartian is certainly a character. Hopefully she does come back because it brightens my day to read her posts. My cheeks still hurt from laughing so hard.

[pianoplayer88]

You're so mean.

[wotgoplunk]

You're so mean.

Don't mess with them.

Or you'll wake up tomorrow dead on a weather vane with Op. 10/4 pinned to you! 

[pita bread]

homeschooled kids = drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr on not only education, but social interaction.

*LAFFZZZZZZ*

Dang, this mozartian is certainly a character. Hopefully she does come back because it brightens my day to read her posts. My cheeks still hurt from laughing so hard.

ahahahahah mozartian. Stop. You're making me laugh. No, really. Stop. Please.

vs.

I'm tired of people downplaying homeschooling as some great and horrible evil when in many cases it does produce good results. Sure, not all homeschooled kids turn out to be balanced and well-educated individuals, but if you think all public and privately schooled kids do, you're wrong. People need to learn to be more open-minded about things and not so stuck in their ways. Institutions aren't the only way to acquire a good education. I'm not saying that homeschooling is perfect- it isn't- but it's a very valid educational option.

If you don't like my using myself as an example of a homeschooled kid who is adapting pretty well to college life, too bad. My intention was not to be arrogant, but the fact is that the original poster asked if anyone here was homeschooled. I was replying to him, and was trying to show him how it's worked out for me.

Maul, you sure sound edjumacated.

[soliloquy]

It's illegal here. And rightly so.

I doubt your parents are professional teachers. So if they aren't I would demand from them to go to a real school.

I know, I know, public schools in the US aren't that great.

Where are you exactly?  And, in the USA (in nearly all states) to homeschool your own child you have to, BY LAW, have a degree in education.  Otherwise you hire someone who does, which is the route most people take.  So, maybe you shouldn't talk about that which you don't know.


Also, what do you mean public schools in the US aren't that great?  o.O  As far as I know, we have the highest IB availability percentage.  If you live outside of the US which you apparently do you're probably only hearing about like, NYC inner-city schools and crap like that, because that's all that would make the news.  We have one of the highest literacy rates in the world, and I know from speaking to some friends in the UK that over here we are doing their A-level work in the 9th/10th grade in AP and IB classes.

homeschooled kids = drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr on not only education, but social interaction.

Most home-schooled children take the SAT/ACT earlier than standard highschool students, and on average score considerably better.

[wotgoplunk]

Homeschooled kids do get an advantage here in Canada, actually.

Public schools aren't as well funded.

Because kids can get a Catholic education for free.

Yep, that's right, Catholic schools here are the same as public.

So we non-Catholics end up squandering due to lack of funds 

[maul]

Maul, you sure sound edjumacated.

Why thank you kind sir, and I wasn't even trying to! Damn I'm good.

[prometheus]

Where are you exactly?  And, in the USA (in nearly all states) to homeschool your own child you have to, BY LAW, have a degree in education.  Otherwise you hire someone who does, which is the route most people take.  So, maybe you shouldn't talk about that which you don't know.

I don't see how the two are connected.

The fact that I am from the Netherlands has no bearing upong if I know what I am talking about or not.

As for the US government requiring parents that homeschool to have a degree. First of all, education is a state issue, not a federal issue. So each state has their own individual law on this.

Secondly, I saw statistics that clearly state quite a few parents have no college education at all. So it doesn't really matter if it's not allowed on paper. Do they really go out and check who is teaching and if the quality of the education the child receives is up to standards?

thirdly, I never said anything about education. Unless one parent studied math and physics and the other English and history and both have experience in teaching I don't see how parents having an education means anything. It doesn't mean they can replace a whole schooling system and a whole bunch of teachers.
But, why aren't these parents teaching at schools then? Don't they have jobs?

Also, I clearly said that all children deserve to get at least some lessons from people with masters and doctorate degrees and not just a college degree. Especially those that are going to get maters and doctorate degrees themselves.

The main reasons for keeping your child at home is because of religion; they don't want their children to be educated because then they risk losing faith.

Also, what do you mean public schools in the US aren't that great?  o.O  As far as I know, we have the highest IB availability percentage.

In the US in High School you don't actually learn much. All children go through the same system. Again, education is not standardized in the US, which it is in other countries. But this means generally no specialization and no extra curriculum for the intelligent students. And don't come out and scream 'But I did..." because that would clearly indicate you missed the point and that would be sad.

As for International Baccalaureate, yeah the US has a lot of them because other countries have other systems. In normal countries an IB level education is a standard option. Plus, Europe has an European Baccalaureate.

Plus, I bet many people that have an IB didn't go to a public school. The fact that there are so many private schools in the US clearly proves something.

We have one of the highest literacy rates in the world, and I know from speaking to some friends in the UK that over here we are doing their A-level work in the 9th/10th grade in AP and IB classes.

Together with 21 other countries. If you weren't you would be among Cuba, Estonia, Montenegro, etc.

Most home-schooled children take the SAT/ACT earlier than standard highschool students, and on average score considerably better.

Doesn't that kind of prove my point?



Yes, US still has the best very educated people. They still spearhead scientific research. But at the same time those that are 'left behind' are crappy. If you aren't rich you can't get your child a good education.


Just watch something like this:

[thalbergmad]

Doesn't that kind of prove my point?

Err no, it kind of proves his point, or have i had too much lager.

Hic

Thal

[thalbergmad]

All children go through the same system. Again, education is not standardized in the US

I am gonna stop drinking.

They go through the SAME system but it is NOT standardised>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HIC

Thal

[wotgoplunk]

They don't stream in America? 

Bring back grammar schools, I say!

[soliloquy]

I don't see how the two are connected.  The fact that I am from the Netherlands has no bearing upong if I know what I am talking about or not.

Maybe you're right.  Let's find out.

As for the US government requiring parents that homeschool to have a degree. First of all, education is a state issue, not a federal issue. So each state has their own individual law on this.

Maybe try reading what I wrote.  I never said it was a federal issue; in fact I SPECIFICALLY stated it was a state issue.

Secondly, I saw statistics that clearly state quite a few parents have no college education at all.

Wow.  I wonder if there are some people in Dutchytown up there that also don't have college degrees?  I DUNNO!  Maybe you could look at some statistics, and then tell me you saw them, and then not show me, and if I ask for them you will tell me you can't find them again?

So it doesn't really matter if it's not allowed on paper. Do they really go out and check who is teaching and if the quality of the education the child receives is up to standards?

That is ludicrous.  First I will rephrase "allowed on paper" to "illegal".  Now I will put this in an equivalent context to display the lunacy if this statement.  "Snorting cocaine is [illegal].  Most people snort cocaine in the privacy of their own homes.  I assert that there is little effort to stop illegal activities of this nature because they are difficult to trace.  Thusly we conclude:

1- Snorting cocaine will not get you arrested." 


Of course they would get caught.  That's what social security numbers, DHR, Social Services etc are for.

thirdly, I never said anything about education. Unless one parent studied math and physics and the other English and history and both have experience in teaching I don't see how parents having an education means anything.

Can you show me some statistics saying that a person with a master's degree in Education also needs a master's degree in any class they attempt to teach at kindergarten through highschool level to be an effective teacher?  That is a bold assertion/assumption and I assume it is unsubstantiatable.  Please do not state personal opinions as facts.

But, why aren't these parents teaching at schools then? Don't they have jobs?

You seem to have this weird perception that the adult requirement for homeschooling is:

Both parents must be teachers
Both parents must homeschool their kid


When neither is true, and I did in fact state that most homeschooled children are tutored by people who have spent their whole lives working on pedagogy systems.  People who are trained to be able to "replace a large number of teachers", and paid to do so.  Usually paid quite well, even.

Also, I clearly said that all children deserve to get at least some lessons from people with masters and doctorate degrees and not just a college degree. Especially those that are going to get maters and doctorate degrees themselves.

Most education majors get their masters.  I'd say like... 95+%.  A Bachelors in education is about as useful as a bachelor's in... i dunno... art appreciation.  And anyone who has a doctorate is almost certainly teaching at college or university level, not highschool.

The main reasons for keeping your child at home is because of religion; they don't want their children to be educated because then they risk losing faith.

May I see some statistics on this also?  Or is this just something "you heard"?

In the US in High School you don't actually learn much. All children go through the same system. Again, education is not standardized in the US, which it is in other countries. But this means generally no specialization and no extra curriculum for the intelligent students. And don't come out and scream 'But I did..." because that would clearly indicate you missed the point and that would be sad.

You seem to have some horrible premisconceptions about the American school system.  There is so much wrong information stated as utter and undeniable fact I am not even going to bother to address all of it.  Also, there are honors, advanced placement, international baccalaureate and college credit courses at most highschools in the country.  And also special classes for struggling students.

As for International Baccalaureate, yeah the US has a lot of them because other countries have other systems. In normal countries an IB level education is a standard option. Plus, Europe has an European Baccalaureate.

Hardly.  Bitching about the insanity of the IB program is worldspread   It is just as crazy-difficult in Iran as it is in India as it is in South Africa as it is in Wales as it is in France as it is in USA.  We are notorious for finding eachother online to pregnant dog and moan :O

Plus, I bet many people that have an IB didn't go to a public school. The fact that there are so many private schools in the US clearly proves something.

It proves that private schools are a lucrative business in communities that are very wealthy or predominantly of a single theology.

Yes, US still has the best very educated people. They still spearhead scientific research. But at the same time those that are 'left behind' are crappy. If you aren't rich you can't get your child a good education.

I've been to London and New York City.  The walls of every building are lined with homeless people in London.  New York is fairly nice in most places.  Your remarks are so scathingly and blatantly biased your credibility is flying out the window with each word you type.

[prometheus]

Maybe try reading what I wrote.  I never said it was a federal issue; in fact I SPECIFICALLY stated it was a state issue.

So in what state is homeschooling illegal if you don't have a degree?

Anyway, what does it matter? There are tons of degrees that don't make you a better teacher and that have little to do with the subjects that are supposed to be taught.

Wow.  I wonder if there are some people in Dutchytown up there that also don't have college degrees?  I DUNNO!  Maybe you could look at some statistics, and then tell me you saw them, and then not show me, and if I ask for them you will tell me you can't find them again?

Homeschooling is illegal in the Netherlands. But yeah, there are people teaching without the degree in the correct field. Yes, that's bad. I never said that was a good thing.

I don't see what the Netherlands has anything to do with this. I never even said the education system here is better or that people here are more educated. what?

That is ludicrous.  First I will rephrase "allowed on paper" to "illegal".  Now I will put this in an equivalent context to display the lunacy if this statement.  "Snorting cocaine is [illegal].  Most people snort cocaine in the privacy of their own homes.  I assert that there is little effort to stop illegal activities of this nature because they are difficult to trace.  Thusly we conclude:

1- Snorting cocaine will not get you arrested." 


Of course they would get caught.  That's what social security numbers, DHR, Social Services etc are for.

This is glibberish to me. I said homeschooling is bad. And you counter with a law in one state, or maybe a few, that aren't enforced and that have no effect.

Fact is, children are denied education. These laws don't help them at all.

Can you show me some statistics saying that a person with a master's degree in Education also needs a master's degree in any class they attempt to teach at kindergarten through highschool level to be an effective teacher?  That is a bold assertion/assumption and I assume it is unsubstantiatable.  Please do not state personal opinions as facts.

I never said there are statistics that say this. Poor attempt at a straw man. What I said is that children have the right to be taught by quite educated people.

You seem to have this weird perception that the adult requirement for homeschooling is:

Both parents must be teachers
Both parents must homeschool their kid

How else can they have all the expertise required?

When neither is true, and I did in fact state that most homeschooled children are tutored by people who have spent their whole lives working on pedagogy systems.  People who are trained to be able to "replace a large number of teachers", and paid to do so.  Usually paid quite well, even.

Suddenly you are talking about private teachers? I am not.

Most education majors get their masters.  I'd say like... 95+%.  A Bachelors in education is about as useful as a bachelor's in... i dunno... art appreciation.  And anyone who has a doctorate is almost certainly teaching at college or university level, not highschool.

Education major? What's that? If you want to teach math you get a degree in math. If you want to teach English you get a degree in English. That's how its done here. And that is my whole point. Children need teachers that are experts in the fields they teach, not experts in 'keeping children busy' or pedagogy.

Also, there is no no 'high school' in most places of the world.

May I see some statistics on this also?  Or is this just something "you heard"?

You don't even know this? And you are accusing me of talking about something I don't know about? Actually, if you reread this topic you will see that at one point I didn't know. So what did I do? I found out all about homeschooling I could.

I found it in Kurt J. Bauman. Home-Schooling in the United States: Trends and Characteristics. U.S. Census Bureau. August 2001.

Another thing, people that home school their children are twice as likely to be evangelical Christians.

You seem to have some horrible premisconceptions about the American school system.  There is so much wrong information stated as utter and undeniable fact I am not even going to bother to address all of it.  Also, there are honors, advanced placement, international baccalaureate and college credit courses at most highschools in the country.  And also special classes for struggling students.

You realize other countries have totally separate systems for different types of teenagers?

Hardly.  Bitching about the insanity of the IB program is worldspread   It is just as crazy-difficult in Iran as it is in India as it is in South Africa as it is in Wales as it is in France as it is in USA.  We are notorious for finding eachother online to pregnant dog and moan :O

This is also glibberish to me.

It proves that private schools are a lucrative business in communities that are very wealthy or predominantly of a single theology.

How come there is a market for them?

I've been to London and New York City.  The walls of every building are lined with homeless people in London.  New York is fairly nice in most places.  Your remarks are so scathingly and blatantly biased your credibility is flying out the window with each word you type.

Is this a joke? First of all, I never mentioned homeless people or London nor do I understand what this has to do with the discussion about homeschooling. Secondly, I am sure your statement about London is incorrect. Don't shamelessly exaggerate to try to make your point and then immediately talk about credibility. Thirdly, NY is not a good median for the US and neither is London for the rest of the world, or the rest of the industrialized world. Fourth, I am pretty sure NY has bigger problems than London. Especially in the fairly recent past.

[soliloquy]

I'm too lazy to do all the quote/unquote sh*t.  anyway, you seem to miss the point of almost everything I said.

-So in what state is homeschooling illegal if you don't have a degree?

I was going to do all the states in alphabetical order, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm in a lazy mood.


-Anyway, what does it matter? There are tons of degrees that don't make you a better teacher and that have little to do with the subjects that are supposed to be taught.

In USA teachers get a specific degree FOR TEACHING.  I believe this has been covered, and I thought you would have known.  This is probably why you missed the point of my response.


-Homeschooling is illegal in the Netherlands. But yeah, there are people teaching without the degree in the correct field. Yes, that's bad. I never said that was a good thing.

You missed my point.  You talked about adults that don't have a college degree as if it only occurs in America.  So I asked you, sarcastically, if there are any people in the Netherlands in the same situation.  Of course there are.


-I don't see what the Netherlands has anything to do with this. I never even said the education system here is better or that people here are more educated. what?

You did, whether you meant to or not.  I suggest re-reading your post.  This miscommunication caused you to miss my point.


-This is glibberish to me. I said homeschooling is bad. And you counter with a law in one state, or maybe a few, that aren't enforced and that have no effect.

You stated that because it would be difficult to catch people (allegedly, according to you) teaching homeschool students without a degree, nobody bothers with this law.  You missed my point.  Again.


-Fact is, children are denied education. These laws don't help them at all.

Read upwards.  You again assert this, but act as if you are oblivious to the fact you are making such a statement.  You obviously missed my point.


-I never said there are statistics that say this.

Then what proof and/or evidence do you have?  Please supply it, or admit it is just a personal opinion and or factual inaccuracy.  You obviously missed my point; I am not literally asking for statistics (although they would be nice).


-Poor attempt at a straw man.

Arg I hate when people try to use these forensic terms.  Had to scold another member today for misusing "ad hominem".  For me to be using a straw-man tactic I would have to be misrepresenting what you are saying; I am not.  You state things as fact that you are unable and/or refuse to show evidence of.  You misunderstand the term "straw man".


-What I said is that children have the right to be taught by quite educated people.

I could use about 5 of those aforementioned logical fallacies to describe this sentence.


-How else can they have all the expertise required?

You make the crude assumption that these people are unqualified.  Again, I will ask for scientific evidence to back this claim up.


-Suddenly you are talking about private teachers? I am not.

Not suddenly.  I've been mentioning them since my first post hun.


-Education major? What's that? If you want to teach math you get a degree in math. If you want to teach English you get a degree in English. That's how its done here.

That's not how it's done here.  Didn't you get all pissy with me because I said you maybe shouldn't talk about that which you may not know about, due to your... erg i have no idea what the word is... foreign-ness?  I think you should retract your pissiness.


-And that is my whole point. Children need teachers that are experts in the fields they teach, not experts in 'keeping children busy' or pedagogy.

Here's an anology that should hit closer to your heart than my admittedly struggling cocaine one.  Let's look at Heifetz and Galamian.  Let's say Heifetz is the equivalent of Albert Einstein, and Galamian is the equivalent of a highschool physics professor.  You have never taken physics before.  Who do you think would better know how to teach you physics?  I would take the highschool teacher in a heartbeat- s/he is trained in EDUCATION, and while s/he may not know as much about astrophysics as Einstein, s/he'll be better-equipped to teach you the necessary curriculum.  Heifetz was a much better violinist than Galamian, but a horrible teacher.  When asked how he did something, he would just do it on the violin.  He didn't know.  Galamian knew how to get it done and knew how to explain how to do it to other people.


-Also, there is no no 'high school' in most places of the world.

There is an equivalent.  A-levels etc.


-You don't even know this? And you are accusing me of talking about something I don't know about? Actually, if you reread this topic you will see that at one point I didn't know. So what did I do? I found out all about homeschooling I could.

I found it in Kurt J. Bauman. Home-Schooling in the United States: Trends and Characteristics. U.S. Census Bureau. August 2001.

Another thing, people that home school their children are twice as likely to be evangelical Christians.

Fair enough.  I didn't read this entire thread because it had gotten so repetitious and stupid.  Either way, I think we can agree this is a fairly inconsequential tangent.  Also, I wasn't saying you were wrong; I was just asking to see some evidence on it.


-This is also glibberish to me.

You asserted that the International Baccalaureate program would be considered, in a less precise wording mind you, the standard level of academia of students in this age group.  Again, an unimportant tangent but I felt the need to address it.


-How come there is a market for them?

Private schooling has little to do with the level of education one receives, and more to do with social aspects, such as child safety, the children they will be around, religion as we both mentioned etc.


-Is this a joke? First of all, I never mentioned homeless people or London nor do I understand what this has to do with the discussion about homeschooling. Secondly, I am sure your statement about London is incorrect. Don't shamelessly exaggerate to try to make your point and then immediately talk about credibility. Thirdly, NY is not a good median for the US and neither is London for the rest of the world, or the rest of the industrialized world. Fourth, I am pretty sure NY has bigger problems than London. Especially in the fairly recent past.

And finally, you miss my point yet again.  You singled out America as "leaving students behind".  I wanted to point out that of course this does happen, but it's not as if it only happens here.  And no, I'm not exaggerating.  At the part of London I spent the most time in every sidewalk was littered with bums.  I didn't see that hardly at all in NYC.

[timothy42b]

There's some misinformation being posted here.

All US states allow homeschooling.  None require a teaching degree or any other kind of degree.  They do have some requirements that vary considerably.  I think they all require parents to notify the school system (which seems reasonable to me, otherwise you might just be using the kids as slave labor, etc;  nevertheless a lot of homeschooling parents resent this).  Some states have curriculum requirements so homeschooled kids learn basically the same set of subjects as public school kids and some do not. 

Most homeschool parents that I've met try to roughly match the school system by buying a set of instruction materials aimed at homeschoolers.  Except for being a little light on math and science these materials aren't bad.  Some of them are produced by religious organizations and of course the science is absent.   In the early grades though they probably get as good an education as they're likely to get in public school.  They miss the socialization and extracurriculars - some parent supplement enough to make up for this and some don't. 

Of course there's also the Unschooling movement which has no curriculum, but unless we have a proponent here I won't discuss it.

Most homeschooled kids who take SAT or ACT score very well.  But what they don't mention is only a tiny percentage of homeschool kids ever go to college, so only a tiny percentage ever take the tests.  Most people speculate if all homeschooled kids took the tests they would do much worse than public school kids.  But we'll never know.

Mozartian mentioned everybody attacking homeschooling.  I'm sorry, that's just not true.  It's just an example of the paranoia and persecution complex that develops in some religions.  If you're home schooled for religious reasons you will believe this.   

[prometheus]

Haha, this is funny. You make arguments that are outside the range of our discussion and you accuse me of 'missing the point'. I perfectly understand what your point is. The point is that you are discussing a position that I never disputed or challenged. Now you may think it's related to what you are discussing, but it's not related to what I said. At least not in my opinion. I think you were responding to things I said and not the other way around.


Same with the supposed sarcasm I missed. I respond sarcasm with sarcasm.

Anyway, you are smart enough to rationalize up your position. So debating isn't really going anywhere.


My arguments against homeschooling and education are pretty clear and pretty main stream, even in the US.