Snotty listeners . . . .

[alzado]

I rarely play for people who visit our home, such as for evening dinners.  I've had quite a few bad experiences.

Once I played the Myra Hess "Jesu."  My grown son seemed to resent this, and continued talking, but in a very loud voice so as to be heard over the piano.  After the piece was over, another relative said "we were so terribly bored.  Can't you play pieces some of us KNOW, like "Beer Barrel Polka?"

With another couple, it was the man who kept begging me to play something, and he remained polite throughout.  But after playing a few minutes, the wife started some very catty comments.  She said, "you know, I admire that you try to play.  I think it is wonderful.  Even people who do not play very well can enjoy trying to play simple pieces.  Keep it up -- at least you like it, whether anyone else does or not."  Is this "damning with faint praise," as they say?

Another man heard me play a couple of showtunes and begged me -- as a request -- to play "As Time Goes By.,"  I said I had the music in the piano bench, and perhaps I could find it.  However, I told him it would be rough, since I had not touched the piece in over a year.  He continued begging to hear it.

After I played it, he was very disappointed.  "You didn't play it very well -- you made mistakes -- you played it too slow.  Is that all the better you can do?" 

Perhaps there's some jealousy in some of these people.  Resentment, perhaps.  "Why is this guy 'putting on airs'?" 

Well, I have bored you all enough with this foolishness.  Polite listeners are pretty rare, although I have had a few.  One thing to remember . . . if you play at all for visitors, keep it reasonably brief.  Many people can manage five minutes of listening, but have a limited attention span.  My best listeners remain my two cats.

Any similar experience ? ? ?

[gerry]

Don't play for them again (or at least until you master "As Time Goes By" and "Beer Barrell Polka") 

[alzado]

If I wanted to play the "Beer Barrel Polka,"  I would take up the accordion.

[shingo]

I am terribly sorry to hear that you had to suffer the brunt of these people's rudeness. It defies belief that someone can be so critical about anothers ability when (from what you have provided) they cannot do any better. Even if they can do better that is certainly not the way to behave.
It just goes to show the ignorence of non-musicians when it comes to things like this. I am sure all of them aren't this bad but it does seem that they tend to lack the listening abilty and generally don't understand that although you can play piano, you cannot just pull every other theme tune out of a hat with a performence 100% accurate.

[gerry]

If I wanted to play the "Beer Barrel Polka,"  I would take up the accordion.

Next time just tell them that, then change the subject, have another drink, and enjoy the party. I learned a long time ago that if you really want to play for general gatherings like the ones you describe, you have to develop a nose for your audience. I certainly would not lay a piece like the Myra Hess on anyone at a party, yikes! I've played it at memorial services. You've got to learn to consider the source of the insistant, "oh please play something for us" and realize that it's not an open invitation to play Snoozofsky's 15 variations on the 12th variation of Dozeofsky's 55 variations on an original theme of ...you get the point. I don't know what your level is, but I would practice and perfect a few short, "entertaining" pieces like from the Gershwin Songbook or something, or perhaps some movie theme music, and keep them at the ready. Unless you can separate yourself from your art enough to go into "entertainment" mode, it's just not worth it to expose yourself to their boorish remarks and other consequenses of their short attention spans.

[thalberg]

I rarely play for people who visit our home, such as for evening dinners.  I've had quite a few bad experiences.

Once I played the Myra Hess "Jesu."  My grown son seemed to resent this, and continued talking, but in a very loud voice so as to be heard over the piano.  After the piece was over, another relative said "we were so terribly bored.  Can't you play pieces some of us KNOW, like "Beer Barrel Polka?"

My experiences are the same.  After a recital in which I played the Brahms Handel Variations, as well as some Ravel and Rachmaninoff (90 min. recital) my mother said, "the relatives and I are wondering if next time you could play something we know, like some television themes."

With another couple, it was the man who kept begging me to play something, and he remained polite throughout.  But after playing a few minutes, the wife started some very catty comments.  She said, "you know, I admire that you try to play.  I think it is wonderful.  Even people who do not play very well can enjoy trying to play simple pieces.  Keep it up -- at least you like it, whether anyone else does or not."  Is this "damning with faint praise," as they say?

You should tell her, "I think it's wonderful that you try to have social skills.  At least you enjoy yourself, regardless of whether anyone else enjoys your company or not."

if you play at all for visitors, keep it reasonably brief.  Many people can manage five minutes of listening, but have a limited attention span.  My best listeners remain my two cats.

Any similar experience ? ? ?

Yes, many similar experiences.  Now, whenever any non-musician asks me to play, I say "sure!" with a big smile, and I sit down immediately and play Goldberg Variation No. 1 with no repeats, which lasts exactly 30 seconds.  When I am finished, I get up and change the subject and lead them out of the room if possible.

(In my opinion, you are wrong about the five minutes.  Keep it under a minute, I say.  Even an excerpt is fine.  Many people can't hear the difference to know if they've heard a complete work or not.)

[mike_lang]

Now, whenever any non-musician asks me to play, I say "sure!" with a big smile, and I sit down immediately and play Goldberg Variation No. 1 with no repeats, which lasts exactly 30 seconds.  When I am finished, I get up and change the subject and lead them out of the room if possible.

Like a magician!

[rc]

Well, I've been lucky enough not to encounter people so rude as your experiences Alzado.  the worst I've had was when I was excited to play for some friends and none of them listened.  I felt disappointed but now I'm used to being ignored

But I can understand that to most people classical music is so foreign and unknown, even if the playing is top notch and impressive sometimes people don't know what to say because they're worried they might seem ignorant.  Thinking back to when I first got into classical music, it took me quite a few listens to a recording before it began to sink in.  Often listeners just aren't in a receptive state of mind...  There are all kinds of reasons why perfectly good music could be lost on an audience.

So I've taken a few strategies:

- I don't play unless asked to (but I DO tend to talk about music a fair bit so it doesn't take long before somebody learns I play )

- As mentioned, I don't play long.  Usually one piece, a sonata movement or something.  Often the performance is perceived as more 'party-trick' than actual music, but sometimes someone will ask to hear more.

- Since people instantly like what's familiar, I've learned some well-known pieces just for them (fur elise, alla turka, etc).  From there I find it a little easier to move into more unfamiliar territory.  Also there are certain pieces that I feel are more accessible on first listen which I like to use.

- Sometimes I will try and engage the listener by getting educational on them: composer bio/history, musical form with examples, or any kind of story I might be able to weave into the piece.  This sort of 'public speaking' is a part of performing.  My stepmom always wants to hear 'knecht ruprecht' from Schumann's Op.68, every Christmas because I told her the mythology behind it and it's such an un-Christmas-y tune

- It's a small thing, but I think having some moments of silence before playing helps the audience prepare and focus on the music.  I sit in front of the piano a few seconds and savor the silence.

Basically, I help them out as best I can.

[pianowolfi]

My experiences are the same.  After a recital in which I played the Brahms Handel Variations, as well as some Ravel and Rachmaninoff (90 min. recital) my mother said, "the relatives and I are wondering if next time you could play something we know, like some television themes."

You should tell her, "I think it's wonderful that you try to have social skills.  At least you enjoy yourself, regardless of whether anyone else enjoys your company or not."

Yes, many similar experiences.  Now, whenever any non-musician asks me to play, I say "sure!" with a big smile, and I sit down immediately and play Goldberg Variation No. 1 with no repeats, which lasts exactly 30 seconds.  When I am finished, I get up and change the subject and lead them out of the room if possible.

(In my opinion, you are wrong about the five minutes.  Keep it under a minute, I say.  Even an excerpt is fine.  Many people can't hear the difference to know if they've heard a complete work or not.)

Lol As so often, very cool advice! I really enjoy your posts thalberg 

[alzado]

I want to thank everyone for great comments.  Don't let this message end the discussion -- I hope to see a few more posts.

One tactic that is helpful for any other people who find this whole issue awkward . . . 

Sometimes the presence of a large grand piano encourages people to talk about it.  It certainly makes a statement, even when silent . . . like an aircraft carrier parked in our living room. 

So if they ask if I can play something, I get up from dinner a bit early -- even before dessert, and go in to the piano and play something short.  Say, a christmas carol or two.  The guests, of course, are still lingering over coffee in the dining room. 

This also tends to keep me more relaxed and mistake-free, since the guests are elsewhere, and not leaning over the keyboard or something.

But I know that some people are just boors.  They have no class.  For example, the woman I mentioned in my original posting as insisting on "The Beer Barrel Polka" has no education and is rather coarse all around -- and was only present because she happens to be a shoestring relative.  One of those instances where we almost have to have them over once or twice a year . . .

For some people, ALL music is just background music.  My dad was like that.  In a car with a thousand dollar stereo system, regardless of what was playing, he would immediately reach over and turn the music down until it could barely be heard. 

All music was background music, or even "elevator music" to him.  Those who continue to chatter away in conversations when one is trying to play something ... possibly have the same mentality. 

[thalberg]

Lol As so often, very cool advice! I really enjoy your posts thalberg 

  Thanks! 

(I enjoy yours too   )

[thalberg]

For some people, ALL music is just background music.  My dad was like that.  In a car with a thousand dollar stereo system, regardless of what was playing, he would immediately reach over and turn the music down until it could barely be heard. 

All music was background music, or even "elevator music" to him.  Those who continue to chatter away in conversations when one is trying to play something ... possibly have the same mentality. 

Composer Erik Satie noticed this trend, and he wrote music for it, which he called "musique d'immeuble" or "furniture music."  It was music that people were supposed to ignore.  Like furniture, it was supposed to "just be there."  He arranged to have it played at some event, and it was his goal that no one would pay attention.  Unfortunately, people were fascinated with it and it drew a big crowd.  He was furious.

[n_n]

haha, weird ppl... actually shocking to hear what you've experienced... In my whole life, I've never met ppl this mal-mannered...

[quantum]

Sometimes I just like to improvise when playing for a party crowd.  It gives the ability to go with the flow of the party.

Another idea is to ask for a well known tune and do some improv on that.  I like doing Jingle bells polytonally using a lot of parallel tritones. 

You should tell her, "I think it's wonderful that you try to have social skills.  At least you enjoy yourself, regardless of whether anyone else enjoys your company or not."

I like it!

[pianowolfi]

Another idea is to ask for a well known tune and do some improv on that.  I like doing Jingle bells polytonally using a lot of parallel tritones. 

:D Haha I love to do such things and then watch the flabbergasted faces.

[invictious]

Next time play something much shorter and flashier. The thing is, people won't appreciate 'deep musicality with tons of expression'.

Personally, for me, excerpts from Hungarian Rhapsodies work really well.

[counterpoint]

Now, whenever any non-musician asks me to play, I say "sure!" with a big smile, and I sit down immediately and play Goldberg Variation No. 1 with no repeats, which lasts exactly 30 seconds.  When I am finished, I get up and change the subject and lead them out of the room if possible.

Just play a Klavierstück by Stockhausen, and they will leave the room immediately   








And they will never ask again 

[ahinton]

Just play a Klavierstück by Stockhausen, and they will leave the room immediately   








And they will never ask again 

That's assuming you can do it in the first place - and that's also assuming that the listener/s don't happen to identify with it, just as some might not do so with Bach, Xenakis, Chopin or Sorabji...

Best,

Alistair

[counterpoint]

That's assuming you can do it in the first place - and that's also assuming that the listener/s don't happen to identify with it, just as some might not do so with Bach, Xenakis, Chopin or Sorabji...

Best,

Alistair

If they like it, then great, you have surprisingly found someone openminded and musically interested. This person can stay in the room of course 

[franzliszt2]

I once played chopin double 3rds etude for a family friend, and at the end she looked unimpressed, and said....my son can play 3 notes at the same time, and you can only play 2.

[mephisto]

I once played chopin double 3rds etude for a family friend, and at the end she looked unimpressed, and said....my son can play 3 notes at the same time, and you can only play 2.

 

[franz_]

My experiences are the same.  After a recital in which I played the Brahms Handel Variations, as well as some Ravel and Rachmaninoff (90 min. recital) my mother said, "the relatives and I are wondering if next time you could play something we know, like some television themes."

When you hear such a thing after you played a 90min recital you could kill yourself... How terrible to hear this from your relatives.

[clhiospzitn]

I once played Liszt's entire Piano Sonata for my parents, and they both fell asleep by the end of it.   I know that even Brahms fell asleep when Liszt first played it for him, but these were my own parents!  I played it very well in my opinion and it's definitely not a boring piece, so maybe it was the late hour (yeah right - it was 9:30 p.m.) or maybe they just didn't "get" it (neither of them are musicians or classical music aficionados).  Oh well.

[gerry]

I once played chopin double 3rds etude for a family friend, and at the end she looked unimpressed, and said....my son can play 3 notes at the same time, and you can only play 2.

Sounds like she has a sense of humor...

[gerry]

After following this thread and other related ones I've come to the conclusion that in these situations the difficulty and depth of the piece played is inversely proportional to the degree of appreciation and understanding of the listeners 

[thalberg]

After following this thread and other related ones I've come to the conclusion that in these situations the difficulty and depth of the piece played is inversely proportional to the degree of appreciation and understanding of the listeners 

Absolutely!!  That's why it is of the utmost importance that excellent pianists sit down for 5 minutes and memorize something that will impress the heck out of un-musical folks.  You will be dubbed a genius for knowing something as simple as the Titanic theme, the Simpsons theme, or anything that has ever been in on TV or in a movie.  Isn't it worth a 5 minute practice session to procure such admiration?  And to assure your listeners that, yes, you are as good as the 5-year old "prodigy" they saw on Oprah yesterday?

[thalberg]

When you hear such a thing after you played a 90min recital you could kill yourself... How terrible to hear this from your relatives.

Indeed!

[imbetter]

whenever guests are over my mom ALWAYS no matter what the circumstance is calls me to play pathetique 2nd movement...............

[gerry]

I trust they are different guests each time...otherwise it would become a bit...well...pathetique

[thalberg]

whenever guests are over my mom ALWAYS no matter what the circumstance is calls me to play pathetique 2nd movement...............

Does she make you play the whole thing?  If so, I bet guests start conversing during your playing.  I will not tolerate that.  Which is why I only play for 30 seconds for non-musical guests.  It seems to be the maximum amount of time they can keep their mouths shut.

It's a beautiful movement though, and at least it's slow so it's not stressful.  At least she doesn't call you in to play Chopin Op 10 no 1 with no warm up.

[liszt-essence]

You should tell her, "I think it's wonderful that you try to have social skills.  At least you enjoy yourself, regardless of whether anyone else enjoys your company or not."

lol good one

[dnephi]

lol good one

Concurred

[thalberg]

lol good one

[ramithediv]

Once at a family evening get-together I was asked to play a couple of pieces.

I decided to play new pieces that i was still learning, as i was only with family, i thought it would be OK.

When i'd finished, my brother said, "Next time, can't you play something that you know properly, with no mistakes?".

I really wanted to hit him. He is 6 yrs. older than me.

[jehangircama]

play alla turca- short and sweet, or minute waltz- works for me most times
or the last pg of HR2-everyone remembers tom and jerry

[dnephi]

Just play the Cziffra Bumblebee transcription- well known theme, completely impolite and awesome.

[gerry]

Once at a family evening get-together I was asked to play a couple of pieces.

I decided to play new pieces that i was still learning, as i was only with family, i thought it would be OK.

When i'd finished, my brother said, "Next time, can't you play something that you know properly, with no mistakes?".

I really wanted to hit him. He is 6 yrs. older than me.

Sibling rivalry aside, I try not to ever play pieces for people that I'm "just learning" as it puts an unfair burden on those more polite in attendance to heap false praise on you. If you insist on doing so, you can't then complain if there is the occasional one who dares to speak the truth as your brother probably did.

I find it infinitely more rewarding and educational to play pieces I'm reasonably confident that I know as the performance atmosphere quickly exposes those areas that I need more work on.

[ramithediv]

Sibling rivalry aside, I try not to ever play pieces for people that I'm "just learning" as it puts an unfair burden on those more polite in attendance to heap false praise on you. If you insist on doing so, you can't then complain if there is the occasional one who dares to speak the truth as your brother probably did.

I find it infinitely more rewarding and educational to play pieces I'm reasonably confident that I know as the performance atmosphere quickly exposes those areas that I need more work on.

Understood. 

But, as none of my family are slightly musical, I thought it would be OK to show them what I was working on. 

My brother, unfortunately, is a complete git. I'm surprised he has enough talent to play with himself. 

[gerry]

I have to add this since it's the time of year when we all experience more of the above situations (holidays, family get-togethers, etc.) I find many of the reactions a bit on the spiteful and even hateful side--those suggestions that we play something obscure and virtuosic and be done with it. In my family, we tend to spread out around the house, children often doing their own thing in one space, others in one or two other groupings. In one space, my nephew might be found quietly playing on the guitar folk tunes that others are singing along with and eventually, when the time is right, I just wander into the living room and begin playing some pieces. As I do, some people stay in the other rooms while some others wander in and stand around and seriously listen to me. Although I can hear other activities (children chattering in other rooms, etc.), when I'm through the applause comes from all over the house. This I find rewarding and precisely the way I like to share my talent with my loved ones. No one is forced to listen, but they all hear in their own way.

In non-family situations, as I have said earlier on this forum, I try to gauge my audience and adjust my performance accordingly, even to the point of politely making an excuse not to play if I feel it's called for. What is your motivation and goal in choosing to play for others? I get the impression from many of the responses to this thread that some of you choose to play certain pieces to deliberately provoke the absurd comments/reactions you get as if to justify and reinforce some sinister feeling of superiority. I think there's room for some soul-searching here.

[lostinidlewonder]

I've played Scriabin's 4th Sonata in a shop once, and then someone came up to me and said, "Oh Fur Elise please, can you please play that." riiiiiighht... People love to hear what they know, everything else frightens and scares them

[shortyshort]

I've played Scriabin's 4th Sonata in a shop once, and then someone came up to me and said, "Oh Fur Elise please, can you please play that." riiiiiighht...

The scarey thing is that every person who plays the piano knows it. 

I think that non-piano players can sense this. 

[rc]

The scarey thing is that every person who plays the piano knows it. 

I only learned it a few months ago, because people like it so much

A few weeks after learning it a girl was over:

"do you know how to play that one... uhhhh... I can't quite remember how it goes... hmmmm"

*e,d#,e,d#,e,b,d,c,a*

bingo