Hostility

[thalberg]

Also, the non-piano board is getting shockingly hostile.  What can we do about that?

[wotgoplunk]

Join hands and sing a few bars of Monty Python. 

[bob3.1415926]

I agree Thal, although I was arguing with you, I never intended it to come off as aggressive (I hope it didn't) I just enjoy trading opinions with people.
However lots of people are just knocking lumps off each other, and that surely isn't what those boards are there for.
I'm out of solutions though. 

[thalberg]

No, bob, you were not hostile.  Disagreements are really just discussions.  But personal attacks are another story, which did happen recently.  And not just to me, but to several people.

[goldentone]

Yes.  I was very upset about the recent liar accusation, Thalberg, on your Pianistimo thread.  That is completely uncalled for.   

[thalberg]

Thank you, I thought so, too.

[ahinton]

As did I, which is why I took the writer to task over it.

Best,

Alistair

[pies]

a

[pianochick93]

And from you signature you appear to be very vibrant and healthy. I'm not sure that the same could be said for pianistimo after she reads it, it isn't very nice.

[gerry]

I get the feeling reading some of the threads that there are some on this forum who stubbornly refuse to accept opposing points of view and, instead of questioning in the spirit of possibly having their minds changed, immediately go on the attack and just seem to copy and paste previous concepts without really responding to an individual. In doing so, the opposing parties merely intrench themselves and fire away and nobody is influenced one way or the other. I can sort of understand this when discussing religion and some of the "extra-musical concepts (a facet of this forum I wish would be kept off the musicl threads and at least identified clearly in separate threads) but when discussing musical topics, we should be more open to the kaleidoscopic array of ideas that come into this forum and more willing to try to find out what makes each other tick. There is an incredible amount of collective knowledge on this forum that could be shared in a much more civilized manner. I also think that many of the more vindictive exchanges are, more often than not, due to misunderstanding, i.e., not taking the time to read the postings several times to make sure we understand so that we don't jump to conclusions. I like to think that I'm in a room with real people with faces - it's just too easy on online forums like this to attack people in a way we would never do face to face. I realize I'm into territory that has to do with age and the way things are now, but I just can't believe that many of you are as thoroughly unpleasant in public as you are online.

[mcgillcomposer]

I get the feeling reading some of the threads that there are some on this forum who stubbornly refuse to accept opposing points of view and, instead of questioning in the spirit of possibly having their minds changed, immediately go on the attack and just seem to copy and paste previous concepts without really responding to an individual. In doing so, the opposing parties merely intrench themselves and fire away and nobody is influenced one way or the other. I can sort of understand this when discussing religion and some of the "extra-musical concepts (a facet of this forum I wish would be kept off the musicl threads and at least identified clearly in separate threads) but when discussing musical topics, we should be more open to the kaleidoscopic array of ideas that come into this forum and more willing to try to find out what makes each other tick. There is an incredible amount of collective knowledge on this forum that could be shared in a much more civilized manner. I also think that many of the more vindictive exchanges are, more often than not, due to misunderstanding, i.e., not taking the time to read the postings several times to make sure we understand so that we don't jump to conclusions. I like to think that I'm in a room with real people with faces - it's just too easy on online forums like this to attack people in a way we would never do face to face. I realize I'm into territory that has to do with age and the way things are now, but I just can't believe that many of you are as thoroughly unpleasant in public as you are online.

Gerry, I agree with you, but I have one small suggestion...

PLEASE divide your posts into paragraphs - they are much easier and much more appealing to read that way.

Thanks!

- Andrew

[leonidas]

Life is about fun, hostility is part of the show.

All the world's a stage!

[thalberg]

Gerry I agree with you too.  The rule of thumb is always to behave online as you would in real life.  But people often do not simply because they do not have to face the consequences. 

I can honestly say I have never seen the kind of hostility in real life that I have online. 

[gerry]

Gerry, I agree with you, but I have one small suggestion...

PLEASE divide your posts into paragraphs - they are much easier and much more appealing to read that way.

Thanks!



- Andrew

I've dusted off my "Elements of Style" and will adjust my postings accordingly.

[gerry]

Life is about fun, hostility is part of the show.

Just so it doesn't become the entire show.

[pianochick93]

say I have never seen the kind of hostility in real life that I have online. 

That's probably because it is kinda hard to "virtually" hurt someone over the internet. Sure ou can fling the insults, but it's not the same as a slap in the face or a kick in the nether regions.

People feel safer attacking people online I suppose.

[thalbergmad]

I can honestly say I have never seen the kind of hostility in real life that I have online. 

You have obviously never been to a Millwall home game.

Thal

 

[ahinton]

Life is about fun, hostility is part of the show.

All the world's a stage!

And all the players in it merely hostile?

If fun is about hostility and vice versa, then the accepted but as yet uncredited Shakespeare might be paraphrased in this context with the words "...sans leonidas..."

Dear me, what an attitude! It won't have me mewling but it might have me puking...

Best,

Alistair

[leonidas]

I have a feeling Shakespeare's respect for me is mutual.

All I was saying that hostility is funny, and as long as it does not predominate ALL proceedings, it's fun.

Many people appear to dislike me on here, and I find that amusing, it doesn't make me want to slit my wrists.

[soliloquy]

*** you AND *** the non-piano board.



 

[prometheus]

You think you can spread lies without getting called a liar? And then you whine about hostility?

[jlh]

You think you can spread lies without getting called a liar? And then you whine about hostility?

And it's your job to enforce your beliefs and call those who believe differently liars?

The same could be said about your arguments for your beliefs.  We've been over this and I've gone to great lengths to show you where science has taken shortcuts.

In cases like this it is inappropriate to call someone a liar for stating one's beliefs.

[pianolearner]

Also, the non-piano board is getting shockingly hostile.  What can we do about that?

This happens in every forum regardless of the theme and it is because the majority of human beings on this planet are irritating imbeciles. The internet frees them from any inhibitions they have. Just like alcohol would.

[prometheus]

And it's your job to enforce your beliefs and call those who believe differently liars?

The same could be said about your arguments for your beliefs.  We've been over this and I've gone to great lengths to show you where science has taken shortcuts.

In cases like this it is inappropriate to call someone a liar for stating one's beliefs.

It's not about belief's. It about lies. He claims that he beliefs that a law in physics that states that heat will not spontaneously flow from a colder body to a warmer one claims that evolution can not happen.

It's a lie on like 5 different levels. And he MUST know this.


I am not enforcing any beliefs. This is just the facts. The second law of thermodynamics has nothing to do with evolution or order or whatever he things it does. And he must know this. Either he is a liar or an incredibly incompetent ignorant fool who has not even the slightest idea of what he is talking about. I think he is somewhat intelligent, though sinister as Ada puts it.

Science doesn't take shortcuts. Science doesn't even try to create a belief system or whatever.

[jlh]

Ok, my mistake... semantics... 

Science does not take shortcuts.  You're right. 

I meant to say that evolutionary 'science' has taken shortcuts.

[prometheus]

You don't get it. Just because we don't understand everything doesn't mean we should discard valuable understanding of life on this planet which is saving the lives of many many people every day.

You might not like the theory of evolution and you might think it takes 'shortcuts'. It does help us save lives. Even if it's 'wrong', we can't get around that fact.

[counterpoint]

You might not like the theory of evolution and you might think it takes 'shortcuts'. It does help us save lives. Even if it's 'wrong', we can't get around that fact.

How does the theory of evolution help saving lives... 

[prometheus]

Since pathogens evolve we apply the theory of evolution in medicine. And this understanding we think we have of how pathogens evolve, as giving by the theory that explains it and bears its name, has undeniably helped us a lot in the field of medicine.

[bob3.1415926]

The second law of thermodynamics has nothing to do with

The second law of thermodynamics: We do NOT talk about thermodynamics

 

[jlh]

You don't get it. Just because we don't understand everything doesn't mean we should discard valuable understanding of life on this planet which is saving the lives of many many people every day.

You might not like the theory of evolution and you might think it takes 'shortcuts'. It does help us save lives. Even if it's 'wrong', we can't get around that fact.

And how many biology or other natural science degrees do you have exactly?

[prometheus]

If you think that degrees give one authority and that authority is convincing then why are you even doubting me?


Well, it's a fallacy anyway.

[mephisto]

Prometheus, have you studied science in a university?

[prometheus]

PM me if you want to know personal info.

[jlh]

If you think that degrees give one authority and that authority is convincing then why are you even doubting me?


Well, it's a fallacy anyway.

It's only a fallacy if you believe having a degree in a field (and therefore have proven oneself to be knowledgeable in that field by an accredited university) is meaningless.  You can still obviously discuss topics you haven't formally studied...  However, making inflammatory statements against someone on the basis of your understanding of a field in which you are not an expert is a bit pathetic.

Maybe you should have studied biology, as you seem to be very interested in it -- or at least in propagating your understanding of it.

[prometheus]

Your post is making little sense because of the double negatives and the arguments based on speculation.

Authority is irrelevant. And I don't see why people who aren't scientists can't talk about science. That's so elitist.

[jlh]

I modified my post before you posted your response, by the way... 

[prometheus]

I don't remember telling you what I study. Also, even if I didn't study biology, I don't see why I can't cite biology textbooks and help people understand biology. Why should I just watch and see other people spread obvious lies and get confused?

Also, only a small amount of people that have a degree in biology are scientists.


I also haven't made a single inflammatory statement. I also wonder, are you an expect in everything you dare to make a statement about?


All this is just red herring. If you think you can proof what I said about science wrong, do it. No. You know it's correct. But somehow I have to proof I am an authority. Why?

[jlh]

If you think you can proof what I said about science wrong, do it. No. You know it's correct. But somehow I have to proof I am an authority. Why?

You're the one who's calling people liars and starting hostility in the NPB, so why don't you tell us why you have to prove yourself an authority. 

Oh, and check your PM's... I cited where you told me you hadn't studied science formally (and what you studied). 

[jlh]

I also haven't made a single inflammatory statement. I also wonder, are you an expect in everything you dare to make a statement about?

Calling someone a liar multiple times with exclamation marks and basically shouting at them on the forum could be considered inflammatory, don't you think?

No, I don't consider myself an 'expect' in most of what I talk about, especially in the NPB, but I certainly don't make inflammatory statements in a hostile manner about them either.

[prometheus]

I never claimed I didn't act hostile. I am just very much offended by the dishonesty.

[pianochick93]

And the hostility continues...even on a thread about stopping hostility...

[thalbergmad]

The thread was about hostility, not about stopping it.

Why people cannot live in peace i do not know.

Thal smokes pipe of peace.

Thal

[ahinton]

The thread was about hostility, not about stopping it.

Why people cannot live in peace i do not know.

Thal smokes pipe of peace.

Thal

I much prefer living in peace to living with the constant risk of lung cancer, but there...

Best,

Alistair

[viking]

The thread was about hostility, not about stopping it.

Why people cannot live in peace i do not know.

Thal smokes pipe of peace.

Thal

Ahh the pipe of peace is where it's at.

[jlh]

Ahh the pipe of peace is where it's at.

At my church we pass the peace during the service... I swear one of these weeks I'm gonna bring a pipe. 

[pianochick93]

Piece of what?

*sorry...I can't help but make bad puns when the oppurtunity arises*

[ahinton]

Piece of what?

*sorry...I can't help but make bad puns when the oppurtunity arises*

"The piece of cod that passeth all understanding" (see 2 Peter lvii and the tale of the five loaves and two fishes; of coruse, there had been no over-fishing of cod in Biblical times so, like so much else in the Bible, it doesn't apply today)...

Best,

Alistair

[gerry]

like so much else in the Bible, it doesn't apply today)...

Best,

Alistair

...and we're off and running...uh, pianistimo, are you there?

[pianochick93]

At least it took 47 posts...that's a start.

[jakev2.0]

You have obviously never been to a Millwall home game.

Thal

 

HAHAHAHAHA.