price range for Bösendorfer pianos?

[amelialw]

Hi, does anyone know the price range for Bösendorfer pianos?

thanks!
Amelia

[gerry]

Go to https://www.bluebookofpianos.com/bosendor.htm
Entire price list for all models.

Range:  Vertical =  $45,350
Grands: Ebony high-gloss
    5'8" = $88,175
    6'2" = $90,425
    6'7" = $99,725
    7"0 = $116,175
    7'4" = $121,775
    9'2" = $157,900
    9'6" = $179,550

The site details all models, finishes, styles, etc. The highest price is for the 9'6" Artisan model at $264,450

[nyonyo]

Those are MSRP. The real prices are way below what shown...

[amelialw]

how much lower?

[cincy2]

I just purchased a fine Bluthner grand. The dealer's price was about 33% below list. I think you can expect a range of discounts depending on time of year, inventory and individual dealers from 25% to 40%. For European pianos this discount will be getting smaller as the dollar's value degrades against the Euro. It's only going to get worse.

[gfiore]

For a Bosendorfer you're only going to see a 20% discount off MRSP. 25% if you're lucky.

[nyonyo]

Generally, only rich people buy Bosendorfer. They buy the piano as a furniture. Therefore, since they have tons of money, they will not really bargain. As a result, Bosendorfer dealers are used to not to giving big discount.

Yamaha or Kawai, on the other hand, is piano for real people who use the piano to practice on. These people are usually not rich people, not rich people need to bargain because they do not have enough money. Therefore, Yamaha or Kawai dealers are accustomed to deal with these kinds of peopel. Once they sense that you are in this category, they know that they need to lower the price to the real price, otherwise, they will lose the business. Because these kinds of buyers will shop around. You cannot do this with Bosendorfer, because the number of dealers are very limited. Steinway is a little different, many paino people who really use the piano for practice are so wanting to own a Steinway piano. They feel that their life is not complete until they own a Steinway.

I used to be afraid that if I practice on Yamaha, I won't be able to play on Steinway or Bosendorfer. After trying many Steinways and Bosendorfers, I have no doubt anymore that their action and touch are about the same. The sound, however, are different.

Are you going to buy a Bosendorfer?

[gfiore]

 The blanket statement that only rich people buy Bosendorfers is a bit overboard. I bought a model 214 a little over three years ago($87,000), and I am not rich. I know of other musicians and people in other professions who I tune for who also realised a lifelong dream and purchased a Bosendorfer. They are not rich either, but made a lot of sacrifices to be able to afford one.
 I myself, sold my condo when realestate was selling at an all time high here in NJ in late 2004. I made a big profit, and added that to the other hard earned money from teaching inner-city public school. Sometimes you have to give up some things like cable tv, vacations, and eating out more than twice a week to save for something you truly want.

[amelialw]

I not sure, the only thing is that I really don`t want a Yamaha piano. I need to try diff pianos and see which one I really like.

[gerry]

Generally, only rich people buy Bosendorfer. They buy the piano as a furniture.

Actually, I see more "rich people" with Steinways in their living rooms for looks as that tends to be all they and their friends seem to know. If you even mention any of the three Bs to them you get a blank stare in response. I've noticed that whenever this topic comes up on the forum, objectivity tends to fly out the window. Opinions often seem to be corrupted by a "sour grapes" attitude on the part of those who just can't afford some of the instruments under discussion. I say this because all these people talk about is price price price. They seldom offer any intelligent statements about specific inherent qualities that they like or dislike about the pianos. While it may be true that some pianos seem overpriced, affordability shouldn't be a reason to denigrate particular brands.

Amelia, if you are serious about a quality piano, also check out the used market. With the housing and other problems with the economy, there may be some good well-maintained  and/or refurbished Bosies and others available. Good luck.

[amelialw]

yes, thanks gerry.

I will check out and look out for some used Bosie's after I return to singapore next year, will probably rent a piano while I'm looking for one.

I am really serious, I want a quality piano that will last, after all I am going to make music my lifelong career so it will be worth it.

[nyonyo]

Opinions often seem to be corrupted by a "sour grapes" attitude on the part of those who just can't afford some of the instruments under discussion. I say this because all these people talk about is price price price. They seldom offer any intelligent statements about specific inherent qualities that they like or dislike about the pianos. While it may be true that some pianos seem overpriced, affordability shouldn't be a reason to denigrate particular brands.

In my subdivision, there are about 30 houses. There are about 7 Bosendorfer, and all of them are for furniture purpose. When people can afford buying a Bosendorfer, they are not as ignorant as you think. They want something more expensive than Steinways. Steinway is not fancy and sassy enough! Their main concern is the price.

Amelia, if I were you I'd rather save the monies and hire the best teacher to teach you how to play piano well. Expensive pianos WILL NOT make a better pianist. However those pianos will fullfil some people want. Everybody has different happiness in life, some will be happy when his or her perfomance improve, some won't be happy until he or her own a Bosie eventhough they need to sacrifice beyond believe...It is your choice.

Yamaha or Kawai is a good enough piano for you to become a world class pianist if you have the capacity. I saw in one of video clip of Fu Tsong training Sa Chen (the 3rd winner of 2005 Van Cliburn Competition), he uses a Kawai not Steinway or Bosendorfer. Later when you have enough money and have no more idea how to improve your playing, a Bosendorfer can be your way to make you happy....If Ayako Uehara could win Tchaikovsky Competition on Yamaha, it means Yamaha is a good enough piano. Olga Kern also uses Yamaha for her last recording, and the reviewer from the Absolute Sound Magazine was so impressed by the sound of Yamaha. I am not an advocate of Yamaha, but I am a more pratical man.

[amelialw]

yes, I know for 13 yrs i played an old yamaha upright piano that had light keys and never stayed in tune. Now I'm playing a K.Kawai KG-2E and i'm completely satisfied with it.

hmm...but won't I already have a teacher since i'm going to the music academy?? I'm considering boston,petrof and steinway and sons too. I won't be using my own money to buy the piano, my parents will give me a budget and let me pick a grand pianos as a present to reward me and I want to make sure that's its worthwhile.

[dan101]

"Rich" is a relative term. By the way, I know quite a few "real people" who have played and purchased Bosendorfers. They, like Steinways, are top brands and amazing instruments worthy of all the respect that they get... and no, I'm not a salesman for either of those companies. 

[gerry]

In my subdivision, there are about 30 houses. There are about 7 Bosendorfer, and all of them are for furniture purpose.

What are the odds...

[amelialw]

anyway, it will be worthwhile if I buy a Bosie, as long as the piano suits me

[nyonyo]

I will buy Steinway instead. What is the probability of you or your students will encounter a Bosendorfer in any concert hall or universities in the world. You want to be as comfortable as possible with the piano that you are going to perform. In addition, in case you need to sell your piano, Steinway is faster to sell, especially in Asia.

[gerry]

I will buy Steinway instead. What is the probability of you or your students will encounter a Bosendorfer in any concert hall or universities in the world. You want to be as comfortable as possible with the piano that you are going to perform. In addition, in case you need to sell your piano, Steinway is faster to sell, especially in Asia.

You really are one of the most annoying people I've ever encountered on this forum. Why don't you try addressing the questions and adding something of value to these threads and stop repeating your ridiculous opinions over and over. Your argument above implies that if you have a Steinway, you will be comfortable playing on any Steinway...bullshit. Steinways are anything but consistent. At best they are great and at worst, crap. Ask any technician, Bosendorfer is one of the most consistent in quality and character.

Oh, and bye-the-way, my earlier post about the "odds"...my way of saying I don't trust you or this statistic. Seven Bosendorfers in 30 households in the same enclave, all just for show...indeed. Surely you can come up with more reputable facts to bolster your arguments. And, in future, please spare us all your "Asian students = $$$s" dogma--many of us have had a good laugh over that and would like to hear something more erudite from you, if that's possible.

[gfiore]

Great post Gerry. I doubt that there are even seven Bosendorfers in my county let alone a single development

[nyonyo]

gfiore and Gerry,

Which county do you live? It really depends on the county and the neighbourhood that you live  .

Gerry,

Am I not saying the fact that Asian = $$$. Look at the last Van Cliburn competition, 14 of the 30 people got chosen are Asians, either Chinese or Korean. 3 finalists of 6 are Asians, 7 semifinalists of 12 are Asians. Therefore, there must be a big Asian population who learn to play piano seriously.

In order for them to be of that high caliber pianists, they need to spend a lot of money for lessons, pianos etc. As it has been attested by many members of this forum, Asians are the most consistent when come to learn how to play piano. Look at the regional piano competitions, 99% are Asians, therefore, Asian are basically the majority of serious piano players in America. Pay attention to the fact that no more Caucasian Americans win big competition. Most were won by either Asians or Asian Americans or Russians or any other European country people, once again not Caucasian Americans. Not because Caucasian Americans are not able, they just do not put their heart anymore on playing piano to the highest caliber, therefore, they do not spend their money on piano related matters. They love to spend their money on BIG SUVs and big houses as well as fancy clothes.

[gerry]

Mr. nyonyo:
Stop, look, listen.  Original question: What is the price range of Bosendorfers? Everyone replied with germane answers, i.e., price range, discount opportunities, etc. You, as you have done before, took this as an opportunity to butt into the conversation with your irrelevant and, by now, tiresome and somewhat xenophobic opinions. Please respect the intent of these threads, and if you feel the need to air your opinions in this manner, then start a relevant thread of your own on the subject.

[nyonyo]

Gerry,

I answered the thread with relevant information. You are the one who always started with the offense (who brought up Asian=$$$, Sour Grape Attitude because they cannot afford). I was just saying the reason why Bosendorfer dealers are not used to giving discount. You took the reasoning personally and started your offensive comments.

Did I attack you back? No, I did not! I was telling the fact about the place I live. There are 7 Bosendorfer in my subdivision and they are used as a furniture. And since you brought back the favorite topic of ours Asian=$$$, I gave you more inside on that.

If you do not like other people opinion, you can state your argument why you do not agree. If you do not like to read what I say, you can ignore me forever and I certainly do not mind (I am sure by now that you enjoy reading my answers  . If you care to say something, please do so. Everybody has the right to say his or her opinion on any subject posted.

[gerry]

Sorry - I was in a really REALLY bad mood last night.

[kamike]

Well, at any rate, it doesn't matter if there are 1 or 50 Bosies' or whatever on the block.  No one should care IMHO.  What matters is how it feels, sounds, and if it's in the budget.   There are some awsome used and new pianos out there, and with some persistence one can find wonderful instruments.   

And budget is probably more flexible than most people think.  It's more a matter of priority than we like to admit.

It's hard to take, listening to someone preach about just one brand or style of instrument or tell me what I should want or need.  Piano purchases are more about heart than mind.

[gerry]

As I've said often, it's like a love affair. If you play enough instruments you learn to know what you like, not just like what you know. Wouldn't it be interesting if we could shop blindfolded (like a blind wine tasting) not knowing the brand name, and select our instrument that way.

[thalberg]

I will buy Steinway instead. What is the probability of you or your students will encounter a Bosendorfer in any concert hall or universities in the world. You want to be as comfortable as possible with the piano that you are going to perform. In addition, in case you need to sell your piano, Steinway is faster to sell, especially in Asia.

1.  Steinways are so inconsistent that even if you buy one, it will be nothing like the Steinway on which you will perform.

2.  Steinways are impossible to sell used becuase the dealers are so aggressive that they get to all the potential customers before you can.  And, you are far more likely to want to sell your Steinway than to want to sell your Bosendorfer.  People who buy Bosendorfers get very attached to them; people who buy most Steinways just learn to live with them unless they were very, very, very picky and patient in their selection process, and also very lucky.

[gerry]

People who buy Bosendorfers get very attached to them;

Amen to that.

[electrodoc]

Dear Amelia

If you want a quality grand piano with a god action and sweet sound then I do urge you to try the Yamaha S6. This is a quality hand made instrument that really is unlike the C series Yamaha. I was looking to change my Boston earlier this year and finally chose the S6 over a good used Steinway B because I siked the Yamaha better. Afeter 9 moths I still like it and feel very satisfied especially with the price.

You can get a new S6 here in the UK for approx. $48k (US) - good price for a remarkable instrument. Do try to find one to try out.

Best of luck with you search and much joy with your purchase.

electrodoc

[thalberg]

Dear Amelia

If you want a quality grand piano with a god action and sweet sound then I do urge you to try the Yamaha S6. This is a quality hand made instrument that really is unlike the C series Yamaha. I was looking to change my Boston earlier this year and finally chose the S6 over a good used Steinway B because I siked the Yamaha better. Afeter 9 moths I still like it and feel very satisfied especially with the price.

You can get a new S6 here in the UK for approx. $48k (US) - good price for a remarkable instrument. Do try to find one to try out.

Best of luck with you search and much joy with your purchase.

electrodoc

I will also say that this piano has a good sound, because I have heard it in the audition room.

[gerry]

Dear Amelia

 a quality grand piano with a god action
electrodoc

A necessity for nurturing a divine technique

[kamike]

While you are busy looking for Bosendorfers, keep an eye out for a Bluthner.  If you can find one.

[thalberg]

Yes consider Bluthner, Bechstein, Mason and Hamlin etc.

Go see Keith Kerman at pianocraft or go see Faust Harrison in New York.

[gerry]

Hi, does anyone know the price range for Bösendorfer pianos?

thanks!
Amelia

This is such a textbook example of how a thread can devolve from orginal intent. Her orignal question was answered by the first few replies. Subsequently, personal opinions and advice began flooding in comenting on her choice turning the thread into just another "what's you favorite piano" poll  Best of luck Amelia finding the Bosendorfer of your dreams.

[amelialw]

thanks gerry for pointing that out! people were getting way off topic. Yes I hope I can find a good 2nd hand Bosie of my price range otherwise my next choice would be Steinway,Boston or Petrof.

[epf]

I would like to second the idea of looking at a Mason & Hamlin -- they are outstanding pianos.

Ed

[nyonyo]

This is such a textbook example of how a thread can devolve from orginal intent. Her orignal question was answered by the first few replies. Subsequently, personal opinions and advice began flooding in comenting on her choice turning the thread into just another "what's you favorite piano" poll  Best of luck Amelia finding the Bosendorfer of your dreams.

Isn't like a piano sonata...exposition, development etc.... The main motif triggers so many different sub motifs...It is the interesting part of every single thread....You do not know what it leads to...If everything single sonata is confined to a single motif, it will not be interesting....

[gerry]

Isn't like a piano sonata...exposition, development etc.... The main motif triggers so many different sub motifs...It is the interesting part of every single thread....You do not know what it leads to...If everything single sonata is confined to a single motif, it will not be interesting....

Sometimes it's quite predictable and begs the recapitulation and coda.

[ganymed]

and how much are upright pianos?

[amelialw]

USD 45,350

[gerry]

USD 45,350

That's assuming you meant Bosie "vertical" pianos.

[thalberg]

USD 45,350

Ridiculous for an upright if you ask me.

I know a dealer in MN who discounts Bosies a lot--it's a great dealer, they discount everything--and when I was there they would have given me a conservatory series Bosie (the lesser series) 7-foot grand for 48K.  Retail was 80K.

These people lower the prices on everything......they don't give the pianos any attention when they arrive from the factory, but Bosie's don't need it anyway.

[thalberg]

Actually, I see more "rich people" with Steinways in their living rooms for looks as that tends to be all they and their friends seem to know. If you even mention any of the three Bs to them you get a blank stare in response.

I agree.  Rich people gravitate towards Steinway.  It has the reputation for being "the best" among the masses. 

I wish rich people would think for themselves a little more about these things.  I would love it if they would use their enormous resources to get some really interesting pianos that I could not otherwise encounter, like maybe a Pleyel or something.

You know what?  I have actually never known a person in real life who has owned a Bosendorfer.  That's how rare they really are.

[gerry]

You know what?  I have actually never known a person in real life who has owned a Bosendorfer.  That's how rare they really are.

Hey Thal, you need to move into nyonyo's enclave, you'll meet 30 of them

[pianogeek_cz]

thanks gerry for pointing that out! people were getting way off topic. Yes I hope I can find a good 2nd hand Bosie of my price range otherwise my next choice would be Steinway,Boston or Petrof.

Petrof. Good idea.
Heavy action (which makes glissandos a real pain to practice and practically effortless on any other decent grand), a very full sound (I have a Petrof 125 upright and it sings fuller than most of the grands I get to play on, one Steinway and one Bosendorfer included, the only instruments I've played on and had a richer sound were - guess what - Petrof grands. But I might have gotten really lucky with my instrument.), which can be a nuisance when you really want a pp melody - thank the heavy action, it takes loads to really get used to the instrument. Very reasonable prices AND dealers, at least around here in Prague. Plus almost all models (except for concert grands, I think) support the KORG silencer system, so no problem there, if you want to practice through the night and don't want neighbors to stage a frying pan-armed resistance movement.

[amelialw]

oh, Petrof supports the silent system, I did'nt know that.

yes, I looked at the prices and they seem resonable. My mom and dad want to buy me a grand. a silent system would be ideal especially since I will be living in an apartment. I'll go try them sometime.

still gonna check out those Bosie's though...

[nyonyo]

Hey Thal, you need to move into nyonyo's enclave, you'll meet 30 of them

My enclave is kind of exclusive though....

[gerry]

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuse us Exclusive to what and for whom.

[pianogeek_cz]

oh, Petrof supports the silent system, I did'nt know that.

Do ask the dealer, though. I'm not 100% sure with the grands; things might work differently there (I would've loved a baby grand, but - alas - would have to sleep underneath it, and I'm pretty sure the instrument wouldn't like it )