Are pianists just all insane and creepy?

[danny elfboy]

I'm not kidding, the question is for real.

Now I know that you're going to say I'm insane and creepy too, so okay.
But I've been in many forums, dealt with many organizations and spoke with a lot of people and never before in my life I've seen such a concentration of completely pathological individuals. It seems like every one in this forum has dealt with some kind of creepy philosophy from Ayn Rand psychotic rants from hypercristianism and hypermaterialism, passing through concepts of humans as inherently evil and slavery being natural and good, rape cravings being in our genes, annihilation of non-western populations being a good thing, poor people dying of starvation being either the order of things or punishment from God, from the psycho-manic pseudointellectual of elites, the concept that every human except the writer of the post are worth nothing and just good as ground meat, pathological fear of different people, different music, different cultures, crazy conservativism that asks the removal of children eyes so they stop looking at female underwears in the supermarket, mass destruction being good for decreasing the population, the demolition of every tree, piece of grass, hill, mountains in favour of big polluted cities being desirable, sadistic pleasure in human torture and animal tortures, pathological addiction to alcohol, manic-compulsive behaviors, sociopathological inability to disagree with others in a civil manner.

So why in the world pianists (including me) must be pathological insane instead of just *** playing their damn piano and stop badly and pathetically overthinking everything to the point of unreversible psychosis? I don't know if you had the chance to interact with other groups of people but believe me you'll never see anything remotely close to what this community can offer in term of mental impairment. I don't know how many real friends you have but if the answer is very little or zero, it's time you realize why and start to believe it when people say you're weird in a disturbing way. I just hope it's neither classical music nor the piano, cause I'm willing to burn my piano and start playing rock guitar if those stuff are so dangerous. After all we have so much to offer in the asocial-neurotic-psycho-patho-manic-compulsive delirium department that we can't have enough time or passion left to devote to the piano. We better off find a career in a circus of freaks as we would never be credible attempting to play the piano (or with anything else for that matters)

[m1469]

Hey, don't ask me.  I have just made myself sick with chocolates and sweets  :-. 

Let's see, my real life friends ? hee hee ... probably most of those are actually part of this forum  .

[rc]

Hahahah, well I still keep some contact with friends (outsiders), and I've heard more than once I can be pretty strange

I don't blame piano or music for that, but being a hermit DOES make one odd - and a lot of classical musicians are hermits about it.  I can literally feel myself getting weird when I haven't been out in too long.

There's a balance to be had.  We all want to be excellent musicians, the bar is high, but I think something is lost when one can no longer communicate with 'the outside'.

Anyways, going over your list of insanity, I can think of many non-musicians who are just as crazy.  On close inspection pretty much everybody has some degree of troubles, some people are outright broken!

If you consider that list to be insane, then you have nothing to worry about: everybody's insane and not just us pianists.

[counterpoint]

I'm not kidding, the question is for real.

Now I know that you're going to say I'm insane and creepy too, so okay.
But I've been in many forums, dealt with many organizations and spoke with a lot of people and never before in my life I've seen such a concentration of completely pathological individuals.

Depends on your definition of "pathological".

In my eyes, the whole world is gone mad, why exclude the pianists from that. 

[gilad]

Well. In general people that are into arts are a bit strange. Take some of the movies you can watch in the art film world. All kinds of non main stream subjects, that in fact cater for the strange artists and people that want to watch that sort of thing. I am one of them. I mean take the movie the piano teacher for instance.

Artistic people are often introverted and reclusive, strange and quirky. Perhaps it is because they are above average in intellegence and see more about the world than the ignorant bliss that most people do.

I am totally not being scientific about this, but neither is psychology that pure a science, nor is the topic of this thread.

I'm sure there have been studies done about the personalities and tendencies of musicians and artists.

[mephisto]

All the pianists I have ever met have been really nice people.

[general disarray]

Depends on your definition of "pathological".

In my eyes, the whole world is gone mad, why exclude the pianists from that. 

Amen, brother.

And the internet, like a good cockroach fogger, has flushed them all out and put them on-line.  Free to blather without any consequences at all.  Very, very dangerous.   

[thalberg]

Danny,  I think there are two reasons for what you're saying.  The piano tends to attract people who are --

1. Highly intelligent
2. Highly sensitive

Because of these two things, we just take everything way too far.  Every feeling, philosophy, viewpoint etc. gets enlarged like in a magnifying glass.

Psychologists will tell you that illness depends upon degree--you don't have obsessive compulsive disorder just because you checked if your door was locked today.  But if you check it 10 times every time you leave your house, then you have a disorder.

Our overdeveloped sensitivity and intelligence just makes us go way too far with things everyone else keeps in moderation.  That's my opinion.

[term]

Our overdeveloped sensitivity and intelligence just makes us go way too far with things everyone else keeps in moderation.  That's my opinion.

ahh, what a burden...we highly intelligent oversensitive pianists. 

Come on guys, don't generalise. I've  met absolutetly normal, down to earth pianists who have average opinions and who behave like every other musician or non-musician.
I agree there are some geeks, but what's with mathematics, arts in general, sports?
Again: Don't generalise.

[zheer]

         There is a book called the hidden world of the pianist, now what are the chances of finding a book called the hidden world of the dentist, the hiden world of the pharmasists or the hidden world of the accountant, NO CHANCE.Why,well because pianists are different,performing piano music is entertainment, things and people that are familiar are simple not entertaining.So natutally pianists are unusual people, in life style and ways of thinking.However only unusual to non pianists.the good news pianists are not hated, infact a lot of people get excited when you say you can play the piano.

[fliszt]

well...according to my last psychological test... I am insane yes

[zheer]

well...according to my last psychological test... I am insane yes

  You mean fruit cake.

[thalberg]

ahh, what a burden...we highly intelligent oversensitive pianists. 

Come on guys, don't generalise. I've  met absolutetly normal, down to earth pianists who have average opinions and who behave like every other musician or non-musician.
I agree there are some geeks, but what's with mathematics, arts in general, sports?
Again: Don't generalise.

When I first arrived at my conservatory, I expected to find a lot of really weird musicians.  I was absolutely shocked at how nice, friendly, and normal everyone was.

That was just because I didn't know them well enough yet.

[ctrastevere]

It seems like every one in this forum has dealt with some kind of creepy philosophy from Ayn Rand psychotic rants from hypercristianism and hypermaterialism, passing through concepts of humans as inherently evil and slavery being natural and good, rape cravings being in our genes, annihilation of non-western populations being a good thing, poor people dying of starvation being either the order of things or punishment from God, from the psycho-manic pseudointellectual of elites, the concept that every human except the writer of the post are worth nothing and just good as ground meat, pathological fear of different people, different music, different cultures, crazy conservativism that asks the removal of children eyes so they stop looking at female underwears in the supermarket, mass destruction being good for decreasing the population, the demolition of every tree, piece of grass, hill, mountains in favour of big polluted cities being desirable, sadistic pleasure in human torture and animal tortures, pathological addiction to alcohol, manic-compulsive behaviors, sociopathological inability to disagree with others in a civil manner.

What? Explain to me how Ayn Rand supported anything you listed in that paragraph?

[thalbergmad]

I have no real evidence to support the following statement, but i am convinced that when someone is blessed with a talent such as music, certain other qualities that most people have are denied them.

Lets face it, being a concert pianist or even an enthusiastic amatuer may seem strange to most people. The dedication that is required perhaps leaves us with insufficient time to learn certain life skills.

Thal

[term]

That was just because I didn't know them well enough yet.

Visit the math department in a university and then tell me pianists are special.

I thought it was just a gag on the internet, until i found someone who actually looked like that:

[indutrial]

Lets face it, being a concert pianist or even an enthusiastic amatuer may seem strange to most people. The dedication that is required perhaps leaves us with insufficient time to learn certain life skills.

Thal

Yes, but I would say that the non-artistic public boasts far more deviants and self-destructive individuals. Not too many pianists are running child pornography rings or building pipebombs in their basements. Pianists, if anything, have found an outlet for their urges and focus it on a specific agent (their music). I find that many more people in the public bottle up their urges because of social anxiety (worried about not fitting in) and idealistic concerns ("I have to live up to the American dream", "I got to make such-and-such amount of $$$ etc..) and eventually explode in unfocused and sometimes baleful ways (midlife crises, cheating, divorce, suicide, stealing, abuse of others, self-abuse). On the whole, pianists, musicians, and artists might appear to be insane or disconnected, but they usually have a more stable underpinning than seems possible. Musicians are generally more receptive to meeting new people also, despite the fact that some of them are very reticent. An average Joe or Jane public treats every new person as a potential threat to their SUV and their children's sexual innocence.

[dnephi]

Danny, I think there are two reasons for what you're saying. The piano tends to attract people who are --

1. Highly intelligent
2. Highly sensitive

Because of these two things, we just take everything way too far. Every feeling, philosophy, viewpoint etc. gets enlarged like in a magnifying glass.

Psychologists will tell you that illness depends upon degree--you don't have obsessive compulsive disorder just because you checked if your door was locked today. But if you check it 10 times every time you leave your house, then you have a disorder.

Our overdeveloped sensitivity and intelligence just makes us go way too far with things everyone else keeps in moderation. That's my opinion.

I have to say that what you said is one of the most well-thought and logical things I've heard all day. 

Thanks.

[thalbergmad]

Not too many pianists are running child pornography rings or building pipebombs in their basements.

Not too many non pianists are either.

[indutrial]

Not too many non pianists are either.

I understand that, but I'm just saying that deviant behaviors are likely way more likely to come out of the public than out of the musical world.

[counterpoint]

The piano tends to attract people who are --

1. Highly intelligent
2. Highly sensitive

Because of these two things, we just take everything way too far.  Every feeling, philosophy, viewpoint etc. gets enlarged like in a magnifying glass.

I am always pleased, when someone tells me I am highly intelligent and highly sensitive 

In most cases, after such statements, only a few minutes later, I am asked to put my signature under a document, only for formal purposes and I'm assured, it will not have any consequences at all.  Of course it has.

So I am very suspicious and don't trust anyone, who makes such statements 

[thalberg]

Visit the math department in a university and then tell me pianists are special.

We are special in that our faults are our own.  Every field has its faults, as the math person illustrates.  Funny pic by the way.

I have to say that what you said is one of the most well-thought and logical things I've heard all day. 

Thanks.

I am always pleased, when someone tells me I am highly intelligent and highly sensitive 

In most cases, after such statements, only a few minutes later, I am asked to put my signature under a document, only for formal purposes and I'm assured, it will not have any consequences at all.  Of course it has.

So I am very suspicious and don't trust anyone, who makes such statements 

  LOL You have a good sense of humor.   And in general, flattery does mean someone is trying to trap you into something.   However, I think I am right!  Have you ever met a stupid person who can play Bach?  I have not.  Memorizing pages of music and moving 10 fingers in so many directions is not for idiots.  Pianists may have many, many faults, but stupidity is not one of those faults in my humble opinion.

In terms of sensitivity, we must be sensitive to bring out the musicality in things.  We cannot be insensitive or our playing will be boring. 

Perhaps some pianists lack either intelligence or sensitivity, but these pianists would be very bad pianists.

[ramithediv]

We are special in that our faults are our own. 

Memorizing pages of music and moving 10 fingers in so many directions is not for idiots. 

we must be sensitive to bring out the musicality in things.  We cannot be insensitive or our playing will be boring. 

Perhaps some pianists lack either intelligence or sensitivity, but these pianists would be very bad pianists.

You have a great way of describing things. 

[counterpoint]

  LOL You have a good sense of humor. 

Okay, this one sounds riskfree, so I will take this as a compliment 

[term]

We are special in that our faults are our own.  Every field has its faults, as the math person illustrates. 

Well that's something we can agree on. But it's obvious, because that is what creates identity: a pianist is a pianist, because he isn't a mathematician or anything else.

I just don't want to see pianists self-adulating. And as intelligence is a very general and vaguely defined term, i can't agree if you say especially pianists are highly intelligent, because you find such highly intelligent people elswhere too. I would rather say, being just  good at something has nothing to do with intelligence. Just if you're exceptionally good at something, if you're called a master, and if that came with (a little bit) less work than the others did.

[zheer]

  That is true term, i believe the piano can make you appear smarter that you are.

[thalberg]

I just don't want to see pianists self-adulating.

Well, considering the thread topic calls us all insane and creepy, I don't think we're running that risk at this exact time and place.

Plus my point was that intelligence and sensitivity magnify everything, whether it is good or bad.  The example I gave was obsessive compulsive disorder.  Where do you see self-adulation in that?

I thoroughly believe it is part of the artistic temperament to take things way too far.

  That is true term, i believe the piano can make you appear smarter than you are.

My experience has been quite the opposite.  When I see most people sit down to play, it usually immediately shows me what an idiot they are.  Playing the piano is hard, that's why so many people suck at it.

[thalberg]

You have a great way of describing things. 

  Thanks

Okay, this one sounds riskfree, so I will take this as a compliment 

Excellent!  Now for those papers you are to sign.......

[counterpoint]

  Thanks

Excellent!  Now for those papers you are to sign.......

ROFL   

[richard black]

Yesssssssssssssss

[ahinton]

Yesssssssssssssss

Including your good self, Herr Schwarz?...

Best,

Alistair

[marisamurcela]

It depends of the kind of person it is... But most of the pianists I know are a bit insane...

Although,I think that it's not only pianists who are insane...


Pianists create a kind of "personality" that is difficult to understand but I don't think they are creepy...


... sorry for the bad English... 

[mcgillcomposer]

I would venture to guess that pianists are often more than "just all insane and creepy". Many are human, and many are musicians. I do admit, however, that I am no expert on the topic.