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Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto) (Read 17332 times)

Offline iumonito

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Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
« on: December 10, 2007, 03:44:25 AM »
Last movement.  Comments on this and on the whole are very welcome.
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline shortyshort

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 09:16:15 PM »
 ;D Sounds Good, Better than my version of it.

A few mistakes that might not have been there if played a little slower.

If God really exists, then why haven't I got more fingers?

Offline knabe31

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 01:41:49 PM »
 ;D Sounds GREAT!!!! I think the tempo is perfect. Just a few misplaced fingers now and then. It happens. I have been looking to start something new. I think this will be it. Thanks for the post. Lets hear some more.  :) :)

Offline shortyshort

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 10:00:36 PM »
A few mistakes that might not have been there if played a little slower.

I'm sorry, I did not wish to sound harsh.  :'(
But, is it not better to play the notes rather than the tempo.  8)

If God really exists, then why haven't I got more fingers?

Offline iumonito

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 10:37:07 PM »
No harshness suffered.   ;)  The tempo you kind of choose.  The mistakes, well, they happen.  If you are excited, the tempo kind of happens too.   ;D

The mistakes here are more a matter of concentration, I think, although those broken octaves in the next to last page still need an easier path than the one I have been taking.  Every now and then I can play that passage, but certainly it is not reliable yet.

To tell you the truth, if the wrong notes let the expression of the music through, then I couldn't care less for them being accurate.  I personally prefer an expressive messy performance than a cold tidy one (although of course expressive and still unpolluted by wrong notes is everyone's goal).

The miss in section B the second time around are strictly concentration mistakes, although mistakes nonetheless.

Thanks for the comments, keep them coming.   8)
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline shortyshort

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 10:45:28 PM »
No harshness suffered.   ;)  The tempo you kind of choose.  The mistakes, well, they happen.  If you are excited, the tempo kind of happens too.   ;D

The mistakes here are more a matter of concentration, I think, although those broken octaves in the next to last page still need an easier path than the one I have been taking.  Every now and then I can play that passage, but certainly it is not reliable yet.

To tell you the truth, if the wrong notes let the expression of the music through, then I couldn't care less for them being accurate.  I personally prefer an expressive messy performance than a cold tidy one (although of course expressive and still unpolluted by wrong notes is everyone's goal).

The miss in section B the second time around are strictly concentration mistakes, although mistakes nonetheless.

Thanks for the comments, keep them coming.   8)

I can never play the whole piece without mistakes.  ::)
I can never play any piece without mistakes  :'(  ;) :D
If God really exists, then why haven't I got more fingers?

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 02:43:09 AM »
I can never play any piece without mistakes  :'(  ;) :D

Not even John Cage's 4'33''?

Offline shortyshort

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 08:16:44 AM »
Not even John Cage's 4'33''?

Sorry, did not know what that was. :o

Have looked it up, and, the answer is, probably not.  :P
If God really exists, then why haven't I got more fingers?

Offline piano121

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #8 on: December 19, 2007, 04:05:41 PM »
Hi. I played this sonata long ago, and still paly it now and then. About the Rondo, Itīs cool. but to much Allegro, Imo.

There are some interpreters taht play it realy fast, but it realy isnīt alegretto anymore. You play with lotīs of energy and  bursts of fire. I used to play it this way to, in a time I had nothing else to offer, but speed, So if I makee it slower, it wonīt be fun anymore.

Now I realise I got much more things to offer, in terms of sound, in terms of choises. So I make it slower. More alegretto feeling.  But you may eventualy find you can diminish a little bit, and actualy make it more beautifull. Probably you might argue with me that you think itīs perfect and powerfull the way it is. Ok, you asked for coments. thatīs my point o view.

Specialy the main theme, the left hand might get much softer there, and you donīt have to paly everything so Sforzando like. It sonuds too Forte for me most of the time. The octaves section, also, seem to be a litle "to much". To strong, to much pedal. What if you get things a litle bit more clear?

Donīt take it to harsh, overall itīs nice, but could get better.  Obvioausly you have what it takes to play this piece, just need to think in terms of interpretation.  ;)

Tha piano sounds very god btw!   :)

Offline sette_md

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 12:20:57 AM »
Where are you going with so much rush ? I' ve already written quoting the V and VI variations that you play very well, very mozartian.
But I agree with the comments made here on  tempo. You are not wrong  beacause there is a general trend to play this part of the piece in an acrobatic fashion .But serious musicians analists will tell you that Mozart  did not mean that fast otherwise he would have indicated  " Presto". 
Another important issue is that you don't breath. You have linked one phrase to another trough the entire piece  in a real waterfall of notes and we, the listeners, become anxious rather than pleased. Besides,  this imposes high risk of slips.
Make it really allegretto, take it easy, relax ,  tell us the musical phrases clearly. A good exercise is to sing the phrases yourself and you will easily see where you have to breath, that is, cut the sound, raise your wrist and start the next phrase. Beware of excess of pedal and sforzatos that don't exist in the original !

Offline pianogeek_cz

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #10 on: December 30, 2007, 10:35:50 AM »
Tempo-wise, I think that this is roughly at the upper limit, but I definitely do enjoy it this way.
It happens quite often that the left hand drowns out the melody (1:33). Also, the bass sforzatos are... a bit too much, especially in the middle section; somehow, they sound disturbing. A solution might be to inlcude them only after the A major scale passage.
The response in the 1st theme (those thirds) could also do without the sforzato, or not as much.
The broken octaves section... again, the left hand is a bit too loud, I think. Or the right hand needs to pick up in volume.

One more thing: right at the start, is the grace note in your edition crossed or not? I checked mine and according to it the b is not crossed, e. g. the four notes are supposed to be played like four 16th notes (and, as far as I know, that's the way people usually play it...). Playing the b like a grace note right at the start sounds quite confusing to me...

I definitely enjoyed it!
Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz (Without cunning a nation shall fall, [But] Salvation Come By Many Good Counsels)

Offline iumonito

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #11 on: December 30, 2007, 09:37:19 PM »
Hi all,

Thanks very much for all the comments.  I take them to heart.  They are very helpful to me in my search for my understanding of this piece, which changes substantially from one performance to the next.

I agree Allegretto is supposed to be slower than Presto, and that Wolfie did not write Presto at the beginning of this one.  I shall find the energy at a slower takt.  :)

Regarding the grace notw at the beginning of the movement, I agree it showed be played with the same duration as its neighbors, regardles of whether the grace note is crossed or not.  It is typical notation for the period.  The example here was a finger/concentration slip.   ;D

On the broken octave section, I think it would help the balance if I actually played the right hand.  I am practicing the section in a different way, as I love the passage, but still don't have a practical way of making it sound brilliant and bombastic, as I hear it in my head.

I am unlikely to play this more subdued, but I think good taste counsel a left hand that is not heavy all the time, which hopefully will make the places where I feel like a burst in the left hand.  An abduction in the Seraglio.  I shall get the score and learn something from the instrumentation.

Your comments would also be most welcome about the Menuetto, that neglected jewel of a movement.

Cheers and keep them coming!

 
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline iumonito

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #12 on: December 30, 2007, 09:49:20 PM »
Hi all,

Thanks very much for all the comments.  I take them to heart.  They are very helpful to me in my search for my understanding of this piece, which changes substantially from one performance to the next.

I agree Allegretto is supposed to be slower than Presto, and that Wolfie did not write Presto at the beginning of this one.  I shall find the energy at a slower takt.  :)

Regarding the grace note at the beginning of the movement, I agree it should be played with the same duration as its neighbors, regardless of whether the grace note is crossed or not.  It is typical notation for the period.  The example here was a finger/concentration slip.   ;D

On the broken octave section, I think it would help the balance if I actually played the right hand.   :P  I am practicing the section in a different way, as I love the passage, but still don't have a practical way of making it sound brilliant and bombastic, as I hear it in my head.

I am unlikely to play this movement more subdued, but I think good taste counsels a left hand that is not heavy all the time, which hopefully will make the places where I feel like a burst in the left hand more effective.  An Abduction in the Seraglio.  I shall get the score and learn something from the instrumentation.

Your comments would also be most welcome about the Menuetto, that neglected jewel of a movement.

Cheers and keep them coming!

 
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)

Offline pianogeek_cz

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #13 on: December 30, 2007, 09:54:12 PM »
By the way, still to the 3rd movement...

Imagine it being played on a haripschord. :D
Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz (Without cunning a nation shall fall, [But] Salvation Come By Many Good Counsels)

Offline iumonito

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Re: Mozart Sonata in A Major (1783) - III Alla Turca (Allegretto)
«Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 10:29:30 PM »
Ouch, that never.  This is fortepiano music with a  foot on the orchestra and the other on a janizary band marching through Austria-Hungary, me feels.  I have never heard or played this on a harpsichord, but I expect the experience would be painful and sorely unforgettable.   :'(

I guess I should try it.   ;)
Money does not make happiness, but it can buy you a piano.  :)