Best grand piano!

[paul carrell]

Hi, please tell if anyone knows the best brand of grand pianos maybe 6 feet long!
Yours sincerly,
Mr. Paul Carrell

[amelialw]

Bosendofer is one of the best ones out there. I've never tried one but would love too.

I once played on a Steinway&Sons concert grand for an audition and that has to be the best piano that I've ever touched.

[netzow]

Well, you have a lot of options. Steinway, Bosendofer, Mason and Hamlin, Fazioli, Knabe, and many others all make quality grand Pianos. I don't think anyone could really say that one is better than all the rest. My reason being that each piano is an individual and hence different.

[amelialw]

actually Kawai Concert grands are pretty good pianos too.

I have the KG-2E at home and I love it.

[richard black]

At that length I'd say probably the best overall is Fazioli. At a price....

[aewanko]

At that length I'd say probably the best overall is Fazioli. At a price....

they say it costs as much as us$500,000

[quantum]

actually Kawai Concert grands are pretty good pianos too.

I have the KG-2E at home and I love it.

I like the KG series.  A lot of similarity with Steinway in its tone.  Quite different from the RX series tone.

[thalberg]

For the size you're talking about--6 feet--Mason and Hamlin is amazing.

Each piano size has its own "scale"--the mathematical ratios of how they make everything work.  Certain brands are better in  certain sizes.  For example, the 9-foot Steinway is said to be better than the 9-foot Mason.  The 7-foot models in both brands are both great, just different.

But for the 6-foot model, Mason is absolutely incredible.  I don't think anything beats it at that particular size.  I know a lot of people will tell you about a lot of brands--but I'd make sure to at least play a 6-foot Mason before you make your final purchase.

Also try Keith Kerman at Pianocraft--google it--they have some great pianos too in a greater variety of price ranges, so if you want to buy a less expensive piano that is still excellent, that is a good place to go.

[johngoh]

My piano teacher says the keys on a steinway grand are hard to press. .

Good for training finger muscle though. . =)

[richard black]

My piano teacher says the keys on a steinway grand are hard to press.

That's a uselessly vague generalisation, to be honest - Steinways vary more than any other make, probably because they make more pianos than any other make. For all I know they deliberately vary them a bit - why not? Not everyone will like any one setup.

[johngoh]

I kind of like the Yamaha C3 Grand. . keys are quite firm and rough. . So its like when I press the keys they are more it seems more natural. .

[iumonito]

Where to begin?

The best piano is a personal thing.  The best is the one you like the most.

It is true that each piano is unique, which is a question is the particular piano's set up, prep, and the craft of the people that put it together.

But there are some fundamental design aspects that make a model, of a maker, in a year or period of years, something that a person loves or hates, depending on taste.

With that preface, let me clarify that a Fazioli 183 retails at around US$97K, which means you are likely to be able to buy one of between US$50K and US$65K depending on where you buy and who you deal with.

With that money you can buy almost two competent pianos or the same size in the good lower tier brands, like Estonia or Irmler.  If you go Chinese, you may be able to have the Brown brothers and sisters over.  Brodmann is a jewel in that tier.  Dongbei (sometimes marketed as Nordiska) are pretty good too.

Now, for Mason, they make a 5'8 and a 6'4, but alas, no 6 footer.  Both of them are splendid.

But if we are talking best, I am missing from this thread a bunch of German names: Steingraeber (who makes a fabulous 205), Bluthner, Grotrian, August Foester, Sauter, Seiler, the old Bechstein (I don't like the new ones).

If you ask me for just one, I think Steingraeber 205 is by far the best in that size-class.

You may want to take a tour here:
https://www.bluebookofpianos.com/isp/allbrand.htm

[dnephi]

they say it costs as much as us$500,000

I think it's more like 200K$ for the F308, which is 10 feet long.  The shorter models aren't as bad. 

On topic, a cheaper alternative is Grotrian Steinweg.  I love its sound in the treble, which is a place where Steinways tend to be weak.  Great piano, great action.  Expensive, running about 50K$ for 5 Feet long.

[nyonyo]

My piano teacher says the keys on a steinway grand are hard to press. .

Good for training finger muscle though. . =)

In general, new Steinways or well regulated Steinway do not have this difficult to press problem, you just need to dig deeper with Steinway. Bosendorfer, Mason, Yamaha and others have pretty much the same touch, they just sound different..Bechstein is a little stiffer than others ( I do not really like the touch).

[richard black]

I'd second the recommendations for Steingraeber. I haven't played any of their big grands, only heard one on a slightly indifferent recording, but small grands and uprights are really very fine instruments. A piano dealer friend told me a few years ago he regards the Steingraeber uprights as among the very best ever made, and I can't see any strong reason to disagree.

[johngoh]

I played on a Steingraeber grand a few times. . I find it perfect for playing pieces with lots of running notes such as Beethoven's Moonlight sonata when compared to other pianos such as Yamaha's C3. .

[rachfan]

Hi Paul,

I play a Baldwin Model L (6' 3").  I know you said 6', but if your space has a few inches to spare, you'll want to try Baldwin as well.  This piano has a profound bass, a gorgeous sounding tenor and a treble of crystalline clarity--all beautifully blended together.  The piano has a lot of power, but also shines in very quiet repertoire pieces as well.  You didn't mention if you live in the U.S. or abroad.  If the former, with the declining dollar, domestic artist-quality pianos like Baldwin, Steinway (NY), and Mason & Hamlin are better values financially these days.  It's just an economic fact.

When it comes to American pianos (and many of us far prefer the richer sound of the complex overtones of these instruments to the more spartan fundamental tone of European pianos), frequently the factories expect their dealers to do significant dealer prep to bring the pianos to full potential, rather than doing that at the factories.  This is just as true for Steinway, incidentally, as it is for Baldwin.  With many pianos displayed on the floor, more often than not a dealer will be  reluctant to embark on serious prep work until a customer expresses interest.  So, if you encounter a few flaws, don't be put off, dismiss the piano and flee the scene.  Instead, discuss your concerns with the dealer.  They are usually very readily fixable, and you can have a superb instrument  delivered to your home.

Good luck on your search!       

[steinway13]

I would have to say a steinway 1928 is the best the regularly come 6ft and 2 inches and cost about 20,000 - 40,000 Dollars. a pretty decinettone for a good price would be a yamaha  wich will probably cost 10,000 - 20,000 Dollars.

[stars1234]

I agree with      iumonito  to some extent.  Look at Larry Fines most recent book & the addendum that he put out after the book was published.  There's some great info there.

I don't think you'll find a "great" piano that's less than a bit above 6.'  For a home, with a large room, 7' is ideal.  An older M&H is great.  Take a salesman's talk with a grain of salt.

When you are looking in the upper tier pianos (not the very top) there really isn't competition as to quality, but as to what works for the artist.

A German--not NY--Steinway is wonderful.  (NY Steinway, let go (fired) their technical staff a few years ago, and hired sales people, while the German S. continues R&D=the head designer went to work for a Korean company. I can't remember the company right now, but they have their brand listed singularly, their brand + his name, and a piano with just his name. However, he passed away recently, so you'd need to get an older one that was made by him, if you go with one of those.) Schimmel is great. So is Estonia.

I've spoken with the president of the Estonia company, a Juliard graduate with doctorate in piano performance. His goal is to get a quality piano into the hands as many as possible, without having to pay >$100K.  and yes, the Steinway, as well as the Estonia are quite a bit heavier to play than, e.g., Schimmel or Fazioli.

I went to several dealers, finally, a "high-end" dealer, played through at least 40 pianos, before narrowing it down to the Estonia, the Korean I mentioned above, and an older M&H.  Soon, the M&H and Estonia stood out. But the M&H was a 7' and just a bit too long for my room. The Estonia finally said, take me, take me!  And I've been very happy with it. It is handbuilt, has a Renner action and Hammers, is 6' 3" and wonderfully sweet, with bell like treble, nothing harsh as in a Yamaha; the bass is a bit shallow, but I don't think I could get better unless I went to a 7 footer. 

Had I had an additional $20K to rebuild the M&H, I'd probably gone with it.  But the Estonia was new, the reviews lauding it, and it's sound beneath my fingers was magical.

The Estonia continues to gain in reputation and in price, as more people discover it. I lucked out, mine, two years ago was at $20K. Today it's above $40K. I'd take a serious look at the Estonia 190, a Schimmel, an M&H.

Seriously consider the type of music you will be playing and look for a piano that will bring out the best sound.
For me, I play lots of Chopin, Schumann, Rachmaninoff. They need clear treble, with bell like quality & this piano is perfect.

I wouldn't have a Yamaha C of any size (much less a G); but might look at the Yamaha S series. If you play jazz though or want a cutting sound versus silky, Yamaha is a good choice. But it is a "cookie-cutter" piano--unlike the Estonia and upper tier pianos (which many people have never heard of the names) that are hand built. Estonia only makes about 400 pianos a year. Most of your quality pianos are built with care, by hand (not cheap labor) and are works of art, signed by their makers.

So, go to the highest class (tier) your budget will allow, then play many.  Many will say right away, "no." Then it'll narrow down to maybe a dozen, then to a finally three, and in the end, one will say, "take me."   --for me (lucky me) I got an exceptional Estonia 190. I wouldn't give it up, unless some gave me $100K to get a new,  German Steinway.

[gerryjay]

 like many other, the best piano i ever played was a steinway. the second and the third too, btw.

 about the yamahas, i think they have an unwanted metallic sound that botters me a lot.

 the kawais...well...nobody wrote about overrated pianos?

 i'm curious about that fazioli because it's new to me. does anyone could recomend a recording using it?
 
 ah! never played in one but what an amazing sound have a good bosendorfer.

[richard black]

There's a Fazioli on a couple of song discs I know - songs by Samuel Coleridge-Taylor (Musaeus MZCD101) and by Alan Bush (MZCD102). I know cos it's me playing! The recording quality's not too shabby. PM me your postal address...

[gerryjay]

 hey richard!
 thanks for the answer and the offering. anyway, i will not bother you because i'm in south america...far far away...

[richard black]

i will not bother you because i'm in south america...far far away...

Oh, go on! I quite like the idea of my little production being heard in South America.

[gerryjay]

 well, that's would be a pleasure to myself.  how can we arrange that?

[go12_3]

The Chickering grand is the greatest.  Just love the tone of it!

[go12_3]

I have a fine 3/4 grand Chickering.....it has such a wonderful sound!   

[swansonjw]

I have a 5'8" Bosendorfer and it boggles my mind how good it is.  When I was shopping for a new piano, I tried a bunch of Steinways at Steinway Hall in NYC and they were inconsistent.  Then I went to Beethoven Pianos in NYC and played the Bosendorfer, I was blown away.  I had a 7' Baldwin, and it had a Renner action, so the action was quite good, but you need to be careful with Baldwins, at least the 7' models.  They have a segment of string above the far end of the working string.  These segments are about 1 inch long and are designed to brighten the sound.  But these small string segments are very difficult to keep in tune.  So if the temperature in the room changes just a little you end up with a very noisy piano because the small string segments go out of tune more than the main working string segment. Buy a Bosendorder if you can afford it.  You'll never regret it!

[mark737]

Estonia new L190 can be had for around 27k...not 40k as someone mentioned.

[thalberg]

like many other, the best piano i ever played was a steinway. the second and the third too, btw.

 about the yamahas, i think they have an unwanted metallic sound that botters me a lot.

 the kawais...well...nobody wrote about overrated pianos?

 i'm curious about that fazioli because it's new to me. does anyone could recomend a recording using it?
 
 ah! never played in one but what an amazing sound have a good bosendorfer.

A recommended recording for Fazioli?  Well, there is a famous pianist by the name of Angela Hewitt, and if I am not mistaken, she has signed on with Fazioli.  So I believe her recordings are made on Faziolis.  You could check into it, and if it turns out to be true, you can buy one of her recordings easily online or in a store near you.

EDIT:  Turns out I was correct. 

[pianisten1989]

I like Bluthners, Atleast the old models. Most of them has got such smooth tone.

[njalli]

Steinways are the best CONCERT pianos, but that doesnt mean that they are the best for your home. If you are going to choose from Bösendorfer or a Steinway&son piano i would choose the Steinway, because the Bösendorfer are better to play on when playing with singers, voilins, and other instruments.

But for use in your home, of course Steinway or a Bösendorfer are the best, but theres no need for so expensive instruments. But you can buy them ofcourse if you can afford them or need them more then the others, otherwise i would just suggest a Yamaha, Shigeru Kawai, wich is a Hand made Kawaii Grands.

There are So many different types of pianos, its hard to make up your mind or getting advice on wich one to buy. So buy the one YOU like the most. And remember these two things allso when buying. 1 every single instrument is different from the next one, and allso, an instrument that sounds good in a piano store might not sound as good in youre home.

---

Njalli

[lostinidlewonder]

In Australia I would have to say the best pianos are Stuart and Sons https://www.stuartandsons.com/. They are master piano crafters and produce instruments I would say are superior to any of the Steinway or Fazismollies you can get.

[perfect_pitch]

In Australia I would have to say the best pianos are Stuart and Sons https://www.stuartandsons.com/. They are master piano crafters and produce instruments I would say are superior to any of the Steinway or Fazismollies you can get.

WHAT? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

Steinway kick arse... and certainly kick the crap out of the Stuart and sons... I've played a couple of Stuart grands the mechanism when you play is shoddy - it's weak and feeble - However when you sink your fingers into a Steinway, you feel that the power you put in to the keys reflects the volume and dynamic of the sound you want.

And although most Fazioli's are very heavy to play, they have a very clear and powerful sound. God know what you're on about.

[lostinidlewonder]

Weak and feeble!!!???!?!?!

[perfect_pitch]

Yeah - you can't sink your fingers into the keys - use the muscle... it's pretty much like playing a very worn out upright piano.

[Petter]

Does anyone else find it hard to play Yamaha grandpianos? Compared to the Bechstein and Steinways I´ve played that has a soft and warm tone, the tone of the Yamahas I´ve encountered so far seems much more sharp and rings out faster making it harder to control. Maybe it has more to do with the acoustics of the room though...

[njalli]

Does anyone else find it hard to play Yamaha grandpianos? Compared to the Bechstein and Steinways I´ve played that has a soft and warm tone, the tone of the Yamahas I´ve encountered so far seems much more sharp and rings out faster making it harder to control. Maybe it has more to do with the acoustics of the room though...

sometimes its harder to press yamaha keys then steinways.. And the tone from Yamaha are more sharp and bright, but steinway sound is more like smooth and more suitable from romantical music

[jerry_axan]

I have a great yamaha piano. At my home, I always play forte in anytime. Then I got to stem it once over six month.

[gregorymlewis]

I've played a couple of Stuart grands the mechanism when you play is shoddy - it's weak and feeble.

Nothing weak and feeble about this one!

[frankni]

Well, you have a lot of options. Steinway, Bosendofer, Mason and Hamlin, Fazioli, Knabe, and many others all make quality grand Pianos. I don't think anyone could really say that one is better than all the rest. My reason being that each piano is an individual and hence different.

Personally I would go for Sauter, the world's oldest piano manufacturer who has been continuously in business since its foundation (1819). They have beatifully balanced instruments, on par with Steinway in quality, but for much more reasonable prizes.

[49410enrique]

Personally I would go for Sauter, the world's oldest piano manufacturer who has been continuously in business since its foundation (1819). They have beatifully balanced instruments, on par with Steinway in quality, but for much more reasonable prizes.

fyi ibach's been around a bit longer
https://www.ibach.de/eng/ibach-e.htm

[pytheamateur]

I kind of like the Yamaha C3 Grand. . keys are quite firm and rough. . So its like when I press the keys they are more it seems more natural. .

Yes, it's a very reliable piano.

[frankni]

fyi ibach's been around a bit longer
https://www.ibach.de/eng/ibach-e.htm

True, Ibach started in 1794, except that it stopped its production in 2007, which indeed makes Sauter now the oldest continuously operating piano manufacturer in the world (since 1819).

[escott]

Agree this is largely a matter of individual pianist's opinion, but at that size I really, really like both the Steingraeber and the Grotrian.

Mason and Estonia both make great pianos at a somewhat lower price point.

I would also suggest -- if you're in the Eastern US -- the pianos sold under the "Cunningham" name out of a dealer of the same name in Philadelphia.  These are Hailun-sourced pianos built in the best Chinese plant to Cunningham specs and extensively prepped at the Cunningham Philly restoration shop.  I haven't played one yet, but everyone I know who has played them has loved them.  Very reasonably priced, too.

[kchi]

For whatever reason, I felt like putting in my 2 cents, so here it goes........

I once performed on a Fazioli f308, and it was nothing short of incredible. It felt as if the piano was playing me! I see that Daniil Trifonov frequently performs on one, and it seems to fit his playing style quite well...

As for Steinways, along with other hand-built pianos, each one has it's own "personality." Some say that German Steinways are superior to the American ones, but I personally have no idea if there is any merit to this claim. I'm usually satisfied with a nice Steinway grand, and among all the piano brands I've tried, I would rank them as number 1.

I own a Baldwin upright, and it's quite nice, but underplayed. It was given to me as a gift, and unfortunately I haven't made great use of it. From what I've heard and experienced, Baldwin is one of the better American brands.

I am not a huge fan of Yamaha pianos. I've always been dissatisfied with the brightness of their tone.

I've played on many nice Kawais, some of them being truly exceptional. Overall, I consider them to be good student instruments.

Petrofs are interesting. They're a bit pricy, and some of them are quite nice. I've performed on a few of them, and I was usually pretty satisfied. I've heard that they lose quality as they age, but I haven't owned one, so I do not know firsthand about their reliability.

I own a Conover Cable grand, and I truly love it. Perhaps it isn't the greatest piano, but it's the one I grew up with, and it's always satisfied me.

I've heard great things about Seilers, but haven't played on one. Same with Bosendorfers, Bluthners, and others.
As a final thought..... stay away from Young Changs.

[jj5594]

kawai's, beautiful sound

[cometear]

My piano teacher says the keys on a steinway grand are hard to press. .

Good for training finger muscle though. . =)

Fingers don't have muscle.

[cometear]

I'd have to say Steinway is my all time favorite. I cannot compare to a Bosendorf though.

[chopin2015]

C. Bechstein, Chickering and a older Steinway is where the nice sound is at. Their action is always unique though. It REALLY sucks to perform on a touchy-touchy piano where the action is set a special way because it's hand crafted. It's like typing on a keyboard where it is worn in by some other person so the keys feel weird...

I like yamaha and kawai. They have a nice action(especially the little older ones, from the 70's, maybe 90's) and they sound very crisp and detailed in the high end and low end frequency. But mainly, they are really easy to play on. If you get a older piano, it is probably better for practice because new pianos have lighter action because the materials are different in this day.

[hfmadopter]

C. Bechstein, Chickering and a older Steinway is where the nice sound is at. Their action is always unique though. It REALLY sucks to perform on a touchy-touchy piano where the action is set a special way because it's hand crafted. It's like typing on a keyboard where it is worn in by some other person so the keys feel weird...

I like yamaha and kawai. They have a nice action(especially the little older ones, from the 70's, maybe 90's) and they sound very crisp and detailed in the high end and low end frequency. But mainly, they are really easy to play on. If you get a older piano, it is probably better for practice because new pianos have lighter action because the materials are different in this day.

My 1898 Henry F Miller has unique action , it's naturally very light. In fact the keys seem to almost fall away under your hands, especially compared with my Kawai MP6 digital which seems to have a bit more resistance after the let off point than before. Slight but it's there, where the Miller has the same rate all the way to the key bed. The Millers sound when tuned to A438 is very comparable to a Steinway M but has more power. It has a lot of mid range and mid to upper bass power, good mid upper treble power till the very high registers where the digital is actually better. If I really do a nice tuning it's a very nice sounding old piano, I'd have to spend a whole lot of money to get something better in that regard..

Longer ago than you are old Chopin 2015 when I was seeing my piano teacher, she had a Steinway S. Beautiful instrument but the action was kind of tough/heavy. I weighted my keys to more closely match hers and have since taken about half that weight back out. As time went by though she let that piano go out of tune and the action got actually bad on it. At least that was at the end of my ten years or so that I took instructions from her.

I played on a wood stained ( vs black) Chickering, about a 6 ft model in a night club once. That was a nice instrument, I felt right at home playing it. I played on about the same size satin black Mason and Hamlin  and that was nice too. There are many nice grand piano out there. I don't know anything about today's Chinese made pianos except they appear to be too shiny looking.