what's next (part 1): beethoven sonata

[gerryjay]

 hi there!
 as i mention, i am working on this repertory:
 bach - prelude and fugue 6 (book 1);
 mozart - sonata k 332;
 brahms - rhapsody opus 79/2;
 debussy - prelude 10
 villa-lobos - 3 cirandas (o cravo..., a condessa, nesta rua)

 however, i just finished the mozart and i like to start studying the background of any piece i will play in advance. hence, i need to decide my next sonata, and it must be one by beethoven.

 until now, i played the following classical sonatas:
 haydn - sonata 8 (g major);
 mozart - sonatas k 545, 282, 280 (and now 332);
 beethoven - sonatas opus 49 (both), 79, and opus 2/1;
 no schubert yet.

 so, what do you advise? thanks for any suggestion!

[hwangs]

Last year I learned a Beethoven Sonata -- it's Opus 27 No. 1, the one before Moonlight. It's an excellent sonata, not to difficult but full of expression and excitement. I personally dont like Pathetique or Moonlight, because it's so overplayed, but they're probably easier than Op. 27 No. 1, if you wanna learn one of them. Also take a look at Op 10, Nr. 1 and then Op. 14, Nr. 1, they're not too difficult.

If you wanna try a Schubert Sonata; Schubert Sonata D664 in A-major is really nice! Its the first Schubert sonata I learned and one of my favorite pieces.

[hwangs]

Btw, I love that Mozart sonata, lol

[gerryjay]

 hey hwangs!

 thanks for the post. i agree with you about opus 13 and opus 27/2, but i'm wondering if it would not be important to play one of them disregarding the fact that every single  pianist seems to play this pair.
 about opus 10/1 and opus 14/1, it's interesting you suggested that because both are my favorites among the early (and "easy") ones.

 thus, there are now four to choose one...hard task because i love all... 

 do you think that those four are in a similar level? i wonder about pathetique's 1st and moonlight's 3rd: they are this difficult or people play it much faster? 

 about mozart's, it is the realization of a childhood dream. i grown up listening to a cd by mitsuko uchida playing 331, 332 and the d minor fantasy. now, i do play a part of it. it's more than i can express in words. 

[hwangs]

Hey Gerryjay,

You should pick which one you like the best among the four. There's nothing wrong with choosing an "overplayed" work, but more than overplayed, I think especially Moonlight is a little... say, overrated. (Lol, I'm playing Waldstein for auditions.)

Hmmm... Actually, the first movement is really not as hard as people say it is. Just dont worry or rush in getting at the speed, because it'll get there. The second movement for that piece is really pensive and beautiful. I would say go with Pathetique, if you're thinking about picking from those three, b/c it really is a foundational piece. All three are imo similar in difficulty, both technically and musically.

I've actually never learned Moonlight 3rd movement, but heard a lot of people play it and butcher it, lol.

I remember that I enjoyed learning Mozart a lot more than Beethoven when I was younger... lol, maybe you should learn another Mozart Sonata. (particularly 311, 330, 331, 333)

Hope that helps!--

[gerryjay]

 hey hwangs!

 thanks again! i think opus 13 is the one. i really like it, and the first movement will be a challenge.

 butchering the classics seems to be an olympic sport among some musicians.

 about mozart, i want to play another sonata by him in the next year. but that will be subject of another future thread. 

[ridr27]

i need to decide my next
Sonata, and it must be one by Beethoven.

Hey gerrijay.
Here you are over here.

Maybe pick the Sonata you want to learn and tell everyone and we can all be with you in analyzing it.

To any of you that have no idea what I am talking about, just go to Music Theory forum (that is a sub of Students (I think).

Ok, just a thought.
Mayla?
Bob?
anyone else?

rider 27

[gerryjay]

 hmmm...that's not a bad idea, specially because i'd probably go with opus 13, and it's a perfect example of the sonata principles in the early beethoven-late classical styles.
 let's think about that.
 best!

[gerryjay]

 hey folks!

 to avoid starting another thread, let me use this one to ask a question about the sonata opus 13: compared to the first movement, are the other two as easy as they seem at first glance? yes, i know about the expression of the second, and the speed of the third, but down to the keys, are they so much easier than the first movement?
 thanks for any comment.
 
 btw, could i ask for some help from the people who already play this work? hints, suggestions, anything will be highly welcome!

[hwangs]

Haha-- have you even started to learn the notes of this piece yet?? You seem very eager to learn this piece. I learned this piece in depth about 5 years ago, so I wouldn't remember minute detail about performance.

But just as a general comment, if I were to teach this piece, I would begin with something like this: I love Classical music, because you can orchestrate the voices and hear it in your head -- and imagining the piece as if it were a work from a symphony orchestra would really help your playing as it would give you a general sense of pulse, phrasing, and direction. For instance, in just the beginning section, imagine like a symphony orchestra playing the first c-min chord, grand (not a sf, though) to be tailed off by string soloists, or something of that sort. In that same way, in the allegro section, the octave quavers has the texture like that of cellos and basses in a lot of Mozart and Beethoven's writing.

I'm sure your teacher noted something like this to you in that F-major Mozart sonata-- the very beginning starts with strings and once you come to a cadence, the next section is played by woodwinds-- to be followed by sturm and drang with the entire orchestra, and so on...

[hwangs]

Oh-- and I forgot to mention something small I thought was interesting; take note of the motif that starts on m. 52 of the first movement, because it starts the 3rd mvt.

[shortyshort]

hey folks!

 to avoid starting another thread, let me use this one to ask a question about the sonata opus 13: compared to the first movement, are the other two as easy as they seem at first glance? yes, i know about the expression of the second, and the speed of the third, but down to the keys, are they so much easier than the first movement?
 thanks for any comment.
 
 btw, could i ask for some help from the people who already play this work? hints, suggestions, anything will be highly welcome!

I am just finishing Mvt III. I would not say that it was easy at all. But, then I'm not the best or quickest learner. 

I would like to play Mvt I, but I am not ready for that yet. 

Mvt II is lovely, a little slow for me, but still nice. 

If you want a full Beethoven Sonata, with Three great Movements, This is it. 

Have fun. 

[gerryjay]

 hey hwangs!!!

Haha-- have you even started to learn the notes of this piece yet?? You seem very eager to learn this piece.

first, let me thank you again for the support.
 it was impossible to don't sit and read it through...  anyway, i will not start to study  it yet, because i'm really committed to my repertoire plan but as i said before, i like to get acquainted with the piece in advance: to analyse it, listen to several recordings, create a study plan, etc.

 

But just as a general comment, if I were to teach this piece, I would begin with something like this: I love Classical music, because you can orchestrate the voices and hear it in your head -- and imagining the piece as if it were a work from a symphony orchestra would really help your playing as it would give you a general sense of pulse, phrasing, and direction. For instance, in just the beginning section, imagine like a symphony orchestra playing the first c-min chord, grand (not a sf, though) to be tailed off by string soloists, or something of that sort. In that same way, in the allegro section, the octave quavers has the texture like that of cellos and basses in a lot of Mozart and Beethoven's writing.

I'm sure your teacher noted something like this to you in that F-major Mozart sonata-- the very beginning starts with strings and once you come to a cadence, the next section is played by woodwinds-- to be followed by sturm and drang with the entire orchestra, and so on...

Oh-- and I forgot to mention something small I thought was interesting; take note of the motif that starts on m. 52 of the first movement, because it starts the 3rd mvt.

cool ideas indeed. i made an analysis of this beethoven some years ago, and it's a piece that you can always found something new, don't you agree?
 about the mozart, it's wonderful the way he recreate orchestral and vocal textures and sonorities in the piano. btw i like your idea about think a sort of orchestration to his piano writing. i like to look for "matches" when i listen to his symphonies, concertos, operas, string quartets, etc. i will use your suggestion in my following studies.

[gerryjay]

I am just finishing Mvt III. I would not say that it was easy at all. But, then I'm not the best or quickest learner. 

I would like to play Mvt I, but I am not ready for that yet. 

Mvt II is lovely, a little slow for me, but still nice. 

If you want a full Beethoven Sonata, with Three great Movements, This is it. 

Have fun. 

thanks for your post. i think this is the one! 
 what do you mean with "a little slow for me"? don't you like slow movements at all? 
 about the third movement, what were the main problems in your opinion? could you give me some advice please?
 thanks anyway!
 

[shortyshort]

thanks for your post. i think this is the one! 

Good. 

what do you mean with "a little slow for me"? don't you like slow movements at all? 

There are a few nice slow movements, but even less that I would like to learn. 

about the third movement, what were the main problems in your opinion? could you give me some advice please?

It's hard to say now. 

It's nearly all hard for me. 
Staccatto scales are annoying. 
Getting it upto speed is the main problem, and maintaining it. 

The ending is the easiest part. 

[gerryjay]

hey shortie!

 thanks for the comments again!

The ending is the easiest part. 

 i agree with you: double bars are very easy to play! 

[ozgurx21]

Last year I learned a Beethoven Sonata -- it's Opus 27 No. 1, the one before Moonlight. It's an excellent sonata, not to difficult but full of expression and excitement. I personally dont like Pathetique or Moonlight, because it's so overplayed, but they're probably easier than Op. 27 No. 1, if you wanna learn one of them. Also take a look at Op 10, Nr. 1 and then Op. 14, Nr. 1, they're not too difficult.

If you wanna try a Schubert Sonata; Schubert Sonata D664 in A-major is really nice! Its the first Schubert sonata I learned and one of my favorite pieces.