Advice, help, comments, anything!

[allemande]

Hello all,
Well, for a while now I’ve been reading the posts on the website and learning a lot from everyone here that discusses their problems, experiences, etc. I, however, have been worrying about some peculiarities as well and am hoping someone could shine some light in my direction. I’m 20 yrs old and I live in Argentina. I have been a student of piano since May 2006 (not a long time, but almost 2 years now.) Since the very beginning I think I have been very disciplined and persistent with my study and practice. Very scarcely do I take a day off, as it is a daily struggle to say it somehow. About a month ago my teacher gave me a brand new repertoire to begin studying, which includes:

Beethoven’s Sonata in G Op.14/2
Chopin posthumous Waltz in E minor
Bach’s Prelude and Fugue No.5 in D major from WTC I
I also began Chopin’s “black key” etude but my teacher told me to leave it saying I am still not ready for it, we haven’t decided on a study yet, but something from Czerny’s Op. 740 surely.

I recognize that in the short time I have been playing piano I have advanced quite a bit, and I feel I can say these things naturally without having to worry about coming off as “bragging” since we’re all constantly learning and overcoming difficulties. In no way I am trying to do this; rather I believe that in what I need help, it is an important detail to have in mind.

What I am mainly concerned about it is hard to put into words, but it is as if my fingers are constantly tired, or fatigued. To express it another way, I feel that I don’t develop any velocity like I should be developing, and that certain passages that are not complicated at all, instead rather easy, are hard for me. It feels as if I’ve hit a wall, a speed wall, a technical wall, which I can’t overcome. I don’t believe I have troubles with the musical aspects of the pieces, with that I always have my teacher who aids me, but it is as if I am more mentally prepared for these pieces, while my fingers got stuck in the way. My teacher constantly reminds me that speed appears on itself, and to keep studying these pieces slowly, with both hands separately, then together, separately, identifying all the difficulties and working on making them easy, but I feel I can’t.

What I mentioned before hand, could this be a problem of having little time over the keyboard? Should I practice more? Are my poor fingers not prepared for this yet?

I would be grateful if anyone else could share their thoughts or share experiences.

Thank you!

[kyliec]

Hi, good to hear that you're enjoying piano studies.
Perhaps a couple of things that may help would be doing some technicial work. As boring as it is, Hannon's exercises may help to build strength and velocity, as will scales and argeggios.
I have found it useful to break down pieces into small units (eg a bar) and "loop" these until it is more comfortable to increase the speed.
Perhaps these suggestions will help,
Kylie

[jlh]

If your fingers are always fatigued it is because you are playing with too much tension and that is a direct cause of your inability to play fast.  There is no reason why your fingers should be constantly fatigued unless you are not utilizing the larger, hardier muscles of the upper arm and back and instead using the small muscles closer to the hand (which get tired faster).  You will be at this impassable wall until you change how you use your muscles.

If you are getting tired while working on a particular passage, stop, because you're doing something that could turn into an injury later on.  Look at exactly what you're doing, or have your teacher determine what you need to change in your playing in order for it to become easy.  Every muscle in your body has its equal and opposite muscle pulling from the other direction, and when both these muscles are relaxed we are "loose".  When both these muscles are constricting at the same time we have tension.  When this happens you are basically frozen and it is impossible to play fast because you 1) have no additional muscles to work with, and 2) are using more than twice the amount of power and energy required.  Think of volume and speed as 2 opposite sides of a weigh scale.  To have more or less of one you will naturally have to adjust the other side in the opposite way.  To have more speed, you will have to have less volume (you must play lighter).

Start with some scales and arpeggios.  Get them up to mm=160 for 4 notes/scale and 3-4 notes/arpeggio.  If you are like me, you will probably run into a wall at about mm=120 at which time you MUST make your hands lighter and less tense if you want to get faster.  Once you have learned how to manage your muscles to move faster, you can transfer this technical knowledge to your repertoire.

Please note that Hanon will NOT make you a stronger or better technical pianist.  In fact, it may even cause you bodily damage.  Don't use Hanon. 

[teresa_b]

I never thought Hanon was all that physically harmful (boring, yes.)  Pischna is terrible, as the exercises require you to hold down octaves while trying to lift middle fingers--harmful. 

I agree with the advice above, and I think the pieces you are studying may be a bit too difficult at this point.  Heavens, two years, and you're attempting a Chopin etude?  it just may be that you need some more time to gain the technique of speed.  Don't be too impatient, we have all had difficulties! 

Congrats on your accomplishment! 
Teresa

[jlh]

I never thought Hanon was all that physically harmful (boring, yes.)

Not only potentially physically harmful, but as Bernhard has pointed out, the goal of Hanon (all fingers being equal) is anatomically impossible.

Check out his analysis of them:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2998.msg27023.html#msg27023

[allemande]

Thanks for all the replies!

Now,

jlh, I couldn’t agree with you more on everything you have said. My teacher and I talk about these same things all the time and while I study I constantly watch and work on these technical aspects (looseness, heaviness, tightness, etc). However, I am glad you pointed these things out because it is exactly where I want to differentiate the feeling of “tiredness”, or “fatigue” I mentioned earlier, and try to discard these things mentioned here as possibilities. I personally don’t think I have these tension and stiffness issues which are so common if one doesn’t take them into consideration.
A key thing you mentioned is that of lighter playing, and in some way I think I may be struggling with this. My teacher always reminds me to study with “lightness”, and in the case of the faster passages, that what I study with slowness, must be the “slow-motion” (to put it in a way) of what is going to be fast. No rigidness, no excess movements, etc. Now, doing this, I always find myself with a recurring difficulty of feeling that I am not on every note. Emphasis on that “on”, please try to understand it, you know what I mean? It is a feeling of distance from the keyboard, and this is what I call this “fatigue” on the keyboard. A feeling of playing without really playing, and feeling that my fingers aren’t on the notes I’m playing, which gives me a feeling of having weak, slow fingers.

About Hanon, I have never used it and have never wasted time on doing repetitive “etudes” like those. Technical difficulties are found in every piece written for piano


teresa_b, Of course these pieces are difficult for me! That is in part why I was given them! Surely though, I don’t expect to have them incorporated for some time, and the Chopin etude, if I were to have kept on studying it, I wouldn’t have gotten the whole thing with both hands on a moderate speed in less than 4-5 months I believe (perhaps more).

[lostinidlewonder]

Conservation of energy, such an important aspect of playing piano well and too many disciples of piano do waste energy. When you are playing etudes for example you are forced to find this "effortless" touch on the keyboard otherwise you will find yourself unable to produce the desired sound and feel in control with the technical movements at the same time.

This is not to say that all professionals of the keyboard play with an effortless touch, there are many who waste energy but through their practice have learnt to deal with it (such as increasing muscular endurance). This I believe is a danger we must avoid. When we produce a technical movement which is suboptimal, with enough practice you get use to playing this way and thus you learn to deal with and control the discomfort. In my opinion this is a wrong way to go about improving your technique even though many many do this.

You must have a simple binary understanding of your playing, that is, is it optimal or is it suboptimal. You know what is suboptimal because you can observe the stress you body goes through. Those that study piano will constantly monitor this stress and learn to change their method to act against it. We must feel the subtle difference and actively know how to change our physical movements to draw us closer to the effortless touch to produce our music.

This is all generalisations which do not mean much until you attempt to apply them. There is no use to discuss the applications of determining your optimal technical method because the exact stages and context is different for each person. What is however common to all of us searching for the optimal way to play our music is the ability to observe what our body is feeling when playing the piano and actively knowing if the changes we make to our technique improves or hinders our search for the effortless touch. This requires a good coach or an individual who is interested to experiment, observe, predict, infer, be like an investigating  scientist, to get to know your own two hands as best you can.

[teresa_b]

teresa_b, Of course these pieces are difficult for me! That is in part why I was given them! Surely though, I don’t expect to have them incorporated for some time, and the Chopin etude, if I were to have kept on studying it, I wouldn’t have gotten the whole thing with both hands on a moderate speed in less than 4-5 months I believe (perhaps more).

Since you said you had hit a "technical wall", I suggested that maybe some of the pieces are a bit beyond your current technique.  There's no problem in studying them and playing them even at a much slower tempo, until at some point you can play them at tempo. 

My comment was in response to your request for help--my suggestion still stands, if you're hitting a wall, you may get "over" the wall if you work on a few pieces that are slightly less technically difficult first. 

Teresa

[allemande]

Conservation of energy, such an important aspect of playing piano well and too many disciples of piano do waste energy. When you are playing etudes for example you are forced to find this "effortless" touch on the keyboard otherwise you will find yourself unable to produce the desired sound and feel in control with the technical movements at the same time.

This is not to say that all professionals of the keyboard play with an effortless touch, there are many who waste energy but through their practice have learnt to deal with it (such as increasing muscular endurance). This I believe is a danger we must avoid. When we produce a technical movement which is suboptimal, with enough practice you get use to playing this way and thus you learn to deal with and control the discomfort. In my opinion this is a wrong way to go about improving your technique even though many many do this.

You must have a simple binary understanding of your playing, that is, is it optimal or is it suboptimal. You know what is suboptimal because you can observe the stress you body goes through. Those that study piano will constantly monitor this stress and learn to change their method to act against it. We must feel the subtle difference and actively know how to change our physical movements to draw us closer to the effortless touch to produce our music.

This is all generalisations which do not mean much until you attempt to apply them. There is no use to discuss the applications of determining your optimal technical method because the exact stages and context is different for each person. What is however common to all of us searching for the optimal way to play our music is the ability to observe what our body is feeling when playing the piano and actively knowing if the changes we make to our technique improves or hinders our search for the effortless touch. This requires a good coach or an individual who is interested to experiment, observe, predict, infer, be like an investigating  scientist, to get to know your own two hands as best you can.

lostinidlewonder, you are a poet. This is exactly what i needed to hear.