Schumann's Papillons

[mcgillcomposer]

In the first piece from Schumann's Papillons, how would you analyze mm. 9 - 12. So often, roman numeral analysis seems to break down when discussing the works of well-known romantic composers (even moreso in late Beethoven).

Evidently, Schumann is playing on the flat side of the key (via the Neapolitan chord).

I would propose the following:

model = V65 of bV - bV
sequence = V65 of V - V (the tonic is delayed for one measure)

The model and sequence are related by common-tone (Ab becomes G#)

I'm curious to know how others would approach this.

[ramseytheii]

I think you have the right answer.  Why do you say Roman numeral analysis breaks down?   You did it just fine with Roman numerals.

This kind of harmonic sequence Schumann uses to achieve a particularly poignant and sweet character.  It fits right in with the dolce, piano marking at the beginning.

Let no harmonic analysis go without a subjective discussion of the effect it has on the ear!

Walter Ramsey

[mcgillcomposer]

I think you have the right answer.  Why do you say Roman numeral analysis breaks down?   You did it just fine with Roman numerals.

This kind of harmonic sequence Schumann uses to achieve a particularly poignant and sweet character.  It fits right in with the dolce, piano marking at the beginning.

Let no harmonic analysis go without a subjective discussion of the effect it has on the ear!

Walter Ramsey

Walter,

I agree that the subjective discussion is the most important. The reason this analysis seems faulty to me is because of the notation bV. I think this is better understood as an extension of the Neapolitan chord - it has a character that one can easily relate to. When one sees a V chord, the dominant function is automatically assumed ... here, the function is not that of a dominant at all. This is part of the reason I find roman numeral analysis to be a little shaky - it doesn't always reflect the way we hear. This said, it obviously has its place and is extremely useful in certain situations.

[ramseytheii]

Interesting reply!  Your analysis is akin to what I remember from Schoenberg's "Structural Functions of Harmony."  In this book, Schoenberg grouped harmonies according to "regions," and the Neapolitan was at the center of the flat region of any given key.  That would strongly support what you write here.

For me, reading "Structural Functions" was an eye-opener, because it made me realize how harmony can operate 3-dimensionally: on several planes at once.  The book is confusing at times, and you often wonder how he came up with the Roman numerals that he did (because they could often easily be something else), but his mental image of the way harmony works is unparalleled.  I recommend it!

Walter Ramsey

[mcgillcomposer]

Interesting reply!  Your analysis is akin to what I remember from Schoenberg's "Structural Functions of Harmony."  In this book, Schoenberg grouped harmonies according to "regions," and the Neapolitan was at the center of the flat region of any given key.  That would strongly support what you write here.

For me, reading "Structural Functions" was an eye-opener, because it made me realize how harmony can operate 3-dimensionally: on several planes at once.  The book is confusing at times, and you often wonder how he came up with the Roman numerals that he did (because they could often easily be something else), but his mental image of the way harmony works is unparalleled.  I recommend it!

Walter Ramsey

Walter,

Thank you for the recommendation.  I've read his wonderful set of essays on composition; if that's an area that interests you, I must return the favour and recommend it to you.

Thanks again.