Several Questions

[hansscherff]

Hi everyone,

i have been reading this forum now for several months, its very helpful at times but i have some general and specific questions to ask for myself.

First of all i'll describe my own situation, to give anyone willing to help some background info. I've had piano lessons from 5-12 from my dad. At that age you go into puberty and its not cool anymore to play, i think people know what i mean At that time i was able to play pieces like the moonlight sonata 1st movement, fur elise, rondo a la turca (mozart) and other relatively easy stuff like that. Between my 12th and 16-17th i hardly ever touched the piano at all. After that i slowly started playing again, right now i'm 21 and since about 2 years i started practising seriously again. This time however without a teacher and to avoid any weird looks from my dad i wont be having a teacher till i moved out of house which i expect to happen in about a year. So please dont give me the advice to take a teacher right now because that is just not an option untill i moved out!

I just play for my own pleasure i have no intentions to become a professional pianist or anything like that and i dont think it will happen either After i started playing seriously again i've played and practised a LOT of pieces, many were above my level and therefore i was never capable of playing them at the right tempo, without errors or fluently bringing out all the voices etc. Pieces i did get down properly are amongst others:

Rachmaninoff C# prelude
Chopin polonaise in A major
Debussy Arabesque 1
Faure Pavane
Faure Cantique de Jean Racine (piano part offcourse)
Mendelssohn Duetto from Lieder Ohne Worte
Brahms 118 2
Brahms waltz Ab (that famous one)
Chopin Etude 25 9 (almost got this one down...)

Thats just to give u an idea of what pieces i'm capable of playing. I am well aware of the fact that i lack practise in Bach and Beethoven which brings me to one of my questions. Their style of compositions brings certain issues to me. A lot of their works just cant seem to please me enough to work hard on them like i can work hard on the romantic pieces. Therefore i'd gladly hear suggestions from any of u as to what pieces could be suitable. I have all the Beethoven sonatas on sheet music and in a few sonatas there are certain movements that appeal to me like the very well known 2nd movement from pathetique. If anyone has more suggestions as to Beethoven or Bach gems like that (offcourse a Bach piece will never really be romantic, but i'm sure people understand what i mean. Accesible Bach/Beethoven pieces (or sections of) around or slightly above my level of playing to get some of that repertoire down aswell.

Another question i've got is a lot more specific. When playing a piece like Rach's C# prelude, the hand constantly form 'large' chords close together. I have got rather broad shoulders so when playing these chords i get quite an uncomfortable angle for my arms and wrists, my arms with an inward angle and to have my hands in the right position on the piano i have to put my wrists into an outward angle. When practising this prelude it sometimes started hurting, i would stop immediatly, but i would like to know if anyone has hints or something as to releave that 'stress' a little?

My third question needs some background info aswell. At home we have a beautiful C. Bechstein grand made in 1916 (or around that time) with a great full sound, strong bass and a very rich tone. Thats why i like playing pieces with a lot of chords in it (like the Chopin polonaise) that much, that rich sound is just great in my opinion. A drawback however from this beautiful piano is the heavy auction (i think its called that), the force required to produce a tone is larger than on any other piano i've played so far. For not so fast pieces with a lot of chords the piano is great. For faster passage with a lot of scales etc it requires a bit more effort. Since i've been playing this piano since i was 5 i grew up with the idea that its harder to play fast pieces. This resulted in avoiding those pieces and right now i notice that i do not have enough experience with those pieces to get for example Chopin 10 2 down properly. When playing the chromatics i'm not as fast as i want and sometimes i do not exert enough force to produce a tone, so it sounds like i'm forgetting a few tones  I would like some advice for certain pieces to work towards for example the 10 2 etude, so on a slightly lower level so i can build up my speed and coordination. I do NOT want to learn things like the Czerny studies etc because the time spent at the piano i want to enjoy it. I'd rather learn 3 beautiful pieces in a month than 1 Czerny study in a week to accomplish the same result. So hopefully any of u has some advice on this aswell.

Now English isnt my native language and this has become quite a read, so if u dont understand things or need more information i'll gladly rewrite some things.

Thanks in advance everyone,

Hans

[pianochick93]

Wow, piano-wise, you are a lot like me.
The second and third question I can't really help you with, as I'm at about the same level as you are, but the first I can certainly help you a little.

Firstly, I'm not a massive fan of Bach, but his Inventions 4, 8, and 13 I like to listen to, and they look fun to play, even though I don't actually play them myself.
Beethoven-wise, I also havn't played much. I've played first mvt Moonlight, which I didn't like at all, and 2nd mvt Pathetique, which I have loved for years. The 2nd mvt pathetique isn't too hard at all, it's good for control and clarity, and good pedalling skills. If you pedal too much, it gets very muddy.

Otherwise, Have you learnt any Mozart? His sonata K545 first mvt is great fun, and his Fantasie in D minor even more so. I havn't tried his Fantasie In C minor, but I have been told that I should.

[hansscherff]

Wow, piano-wise, you are a lot like me.
The second and third question I can't really help you with, as I'm at about the same level as you are, but the first I can certainly help you a little.

Firstly, I'm not a massive fan of Bach, but his Inventions 4, 8, and 13 I like to listen to, and they look fun to play, even though I don't actually play them myself.
Beethoven-wise, I also havn't played much. I've played first mvt Moonlight, which I didn't like at all, and 2nd mvt Pathetique, which I have loved for years. The 2nd mvt pathetique isn't too hard at all, it's good for control and clarity, and good pedalling skills. If you pedal too much, it gets very muddy.

Otherwise, Have you learnt any Mozart? His sonata K545 first mvt is great fun, and his Fantasie in D minor even more so. I havn't tried his Fantasie In C minor, but I have been told that I should.

I will check the inventions out, i only have the first band of the mozart sonatas so i will have to postpone looking at K545 and the second movement of pathetique i already played, indeed fun to play and good for pedalling.

Thanks for the suggestions already, since u say we are piano-wise a lot a like, i would appreciate every other suggestion for repertoire aswell even if it has nothing to do with my questions

Hans

[gyzzzmo]

My situation was alot like yours too, except that i didnt have a teacher since my 12th.
About your 2nd question, i dont know how you sit behind the piano, but maybe you should put the bench abit further from the piano, to give your arms more room.

Your second question, maybe you should try out some other piano's. Also try the digital piano's (especially yamaha clavinova's) since they are a very good choise for someone who wants his own piano, but doesnt have much money and who doesnt want too many arguments with the neighbours
You'll probably will like other (digital)piano's or grands alot more, but till you' moved away from your parents you likely dont have anything to choose, unless you can convince your father to buy something else :p (wich is unlikely too).

for technique training, i learned alot of technique from the chopin etudes. But its not strange at all that you cant play 10/2 decently at full speed, since that requires alot more technique than what you learn from that etude at all. Etude no 25/6 could give you some extra technical 'background' for 10/2 too.

good luck,
gyzzzmo

[pianochick93]

I will check the inventions out, i only have the first band of the mozart sonatas so i will have to postpone looking at K545 and the second movement of pathetique i already played, indeed fun to play and good for pedalling.

Thanks for the suggestions already, since u say we are piano-wise a lot a like, i would appreciate every other suggestion for repertoire aswell even if it has nothing to do with my questions

Hans

Ok, I don't have that many other suggestions, but I have started a few CHopin preludes, No. 4, and 6. I have finished No. 15.
Also there are some really nice mussorsgky pieces out there from Pictures at an Exhibition. At the moment I'm playing Old Castle and Reverie, and I'm about to start The Great Gates of Kiev. They are excellent.
Une Larme is good but a little easier.

[teresa_b]

Hi hans, sounds like you are a great piano student!  The first step in solving your difficulties is to figure out what they are (And most students need a lot of guidance just to do that  ).  You're on the right track.

I am not a professional teacher, but I have a suggestion or two.  I agree with Bach's 2-Part Inventions,  they are short, sweet and fun--and they help develop the finger skill you're looking for.  Then try the Bach WTC Book 1 P&F in B-flat.  The prelude is wonderfully "romantic", and the fugue is challenging but not that bad. 

I play tons of Mozart, and I have a rather "heavy" action Steinway.  If you can get the right effect with this type of piano, you can zip right along on a lighter one.  Try the little Sonata in G major (I forget the K number), it is delightful and not too difficult. 

As for the trouble with the chords in Rach--I have not played the C# minor, but what if, when you are playing these close-together chords, you lean your whole body one way or the other?  That will straighten your wrists relative to your forearms, and maybe not cause you the awkward strain of excessive bending.

Good luck!
Teresa

[hansscherff]

Thanks for the replies, Teresa, Gyzzzmo and pianochick. I've been working a bit on the inventions now which is going just fine, they are not that hard, only memorizing them completely is a bit of a pain. Furthermore i started working yesterday on Rachmaninoff's moments musicaux #4 to improve my left hand speed a bit, and just cuz its a nice piece offcourse I also bought the chopin preludes and will look into them next week. I do not yet have Bach's WTC part 1, i only have part 2 at home, so if there are any suggestions comparable to the b-flat P&F from book 1, i'll gladly hear and try them untill i've bought book 1! I think i'll start on mussorgsky this weekend aswell

Anyhow, i like practising a lot of pieces at the same time, prevents me from getting bored. So more unknown suggestions are also welcome!

Hans

P.S. with regards to the rach prelude, it isnt that bad, it just feels uncomfortable. I've tried the leaning method, at some parts it helps, but it remains a bit awkward.

[rchmnnffbelle]

Their style of compositions brings certain issues to me. A lot of their works just cant seem to please me enough to work hard on them like i can work hard on the romantic pieces. Therefore i'd gladly hear suggestions from any of u as to what pieces could be suitable. I have all the Beethoven sonatas on sheet music and in a few sonatas there are certain movements that appeal to me like the very well known 2nd movement from pathetique.

Another question i've got is a lot more specific. When playing a piece like Rach's C# prelude, the hand constantly form 'large' chords close together. I have got rather broad shoulders so when playing these chords i get quite an uncomfortable angle for my arms and wrists, my arms with an inward angle and to have my hands in the right position on the piano i have to put my wrists into an outward angle. When practising this prelude it sometimes started hurting, i would stop immediatly, but i would like to know if anyone has hints or something as to releave that 'stress' a little?

I have the same problem as far as the classical period not pleasing me as much as the romantic. I can't find the same enjoyment, and I lose interest fast. For some reason that period seems to put me to sleep, even when I am just listening to it on CD.
But, my piano teacher gave me a piece to listen to and I fell in love with it immediatly, it is Haydn- Fantasia in C major Hob.17 no.4. I'm almost finished with it and I'm having a blast!!! It has a ton of variaty, which I love in a piece! It's very light-hearted and reminds me af a beautiful spring morning. I've never in my life had so much fun playing a classical piece! since then I've paid more attention to Haydn's works and I really like all of them. Oh, I've played the 2nd movement in Beethovens pathetique, it's one of my favorites.

On your 2nd question, while I don't have broad shoulders, I'm taller, so I have longer arms and if I scoot the bench up, it tends to make my arms/wrists hurt a bit. I have found that it releases a lot of tension to scoot the bench back instead. Hope this helps you
rchmnnffbelle