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Ravel - Ondine (Read 5996 times)

Offline gruffalo

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Ravel - Ondine
« on: March 16, 2008, 02:02:44 AM »
Hi.

I've got 2 recordings of this piece and i need to send one of them off for a summer school audition thing and im also hoping for some general feedback. one was done a while back when i had just finished learning the piece. i put it down for a while and i had to re-learn it quickly for this summer school audition. neither are really that good but if i could get a general idea of which one to send off, that would be great.

I did the first recording about two months (i think) before the other. I was felt much more connected with the music back then than i do now. Choosing the recording seems to be rather difficult for me because i feel the first one is more musical, but the second is at a faster tempo and possibly more secure with the notes? (although both are by no means of a decent technical standards).

Sorry to pose such a problem for you all. I hope that you can give some feedback on this.

Thanks for your time,

Gruff

piano sheet music of Ondine


Offline thierry13

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #1 on: March 16, 2008, 04:07:14 PM »
I'd send the first honestly. Your tone is much more appropriate and beautiful in the first one. I agree with you, you were more connected with the music back then. Wich summer academy are you applying to?

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #2 on: March 16, 2008, 04:30:03 PM »
thank you for listening. im applying for Chetham's summer school. here is a web link for the info. it has an amazing staff list.

http://www.piano-festival.co.uk/

my friend also told me to go for the first recording, so i think you are right. have you played this piece before? im sort of stuck with it at the moment and the only way i can engage with it musically, is if i play at a slower tempo, but im not sure if people will appreciate it as much. to be honest, the piece is much more clear and enjoyable for me at the slower tempo.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #3 on: March 16, 2008, 04:44:56 PM »
The question in Ondine is not as much speed as it is athmosphere and tone color. Now, it is much harder to achieve this at a slower tempo ... BUT, you did a great job with it even with your slow tempo in the first one, and that is quite an achievment. No I never played this piece, I messed with it in sight reading but never really worked on it. I see there is Anton Kuerti on the staff list for second week! That's amazing. I actually went to his concert 2 days ago haha. He played Beethoven's Les adieux and diabelli variations. He actually spoke about the diabelli variations for about 20 minutes before playing them. He explained the variations etc. Anyways this guy's playing is awesome and I hope you can get lessons with him!

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #4 on: March 16, 2008, 05:01:46 PM »
yea, Anton Kuerti is an incredible pianist (and teacher, so i have heard) but i wont be asking for him as a teacher because i would only come to someone like him if i was more technically equipped. i need a lot of help with technique aswell. Yonty Solomon is on the list too. Anton Kuerti was on the summer school last year, so if he does it again next year, i will definitely request him as a teacher next summer. from that list im going to choose Martin Roscoe, Murray Machlachlan and Phillip Fowke. I have heard a lot about these three from people who are studying or have studied with them.

once again, thanks for your comments on the recording. i think i will keep playing it at the slower tempo for now.

Gruff

Offline tompilk

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #5 on: March 16, 2008, 05:08:40 PM »
yea, Anton Kuerti is an incredible pianist (and teacher, so i have heard) but i wont be asking for him as a teacher because i would only come to someone like him if i was more technically equipped. i need a lot of help with technique aswell. Yonty Solomon is on the list too. Anton Kuerti was on the summer school last year, so if he does it again next year, i will definitely request him as a teacher next summer. from that list im going to choose Martin Roscoe, Murray Machlachlan and Phillip Fowke. I have heard a lot about these three from people who are studying or have studied with them.

once again, thanks for your comments on the recording. i think i will keep playing it at the slower tempo for now.

Gruff
where do you come from? I live relatively close to chethams - i've walked past it today lol.
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #6 on: March 16, 2008, 05:23:33 PM »
im from London, but im studying in Scotland at the moment.

Offline Petter

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #7 on: March 17, 2008, 03:45:23 PM »
I prefered the 1st one aswell  :D
"A gentleman is someone who knows how to play an accordion, but doesn't." - Al Cohn

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #8 on: March 17, 2008, 05:28:21 PM »
thanks for listening. i will be sending off the first one, because people have generally voted for the 1st, and i prefer this recording too.

all comments, feedback, criticisms etc. are very welcome. i didnt just want to put this up for you to help me chose between the two.

thanks to all who have listened and commented so far.

Gruff

Offline sarrasani

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 12:13:46 AM »


>I've got 2 recordings of this piece .....

Sincerely, I think this is a very poor playing, neither interesting nor precise.
You had to work hardly, but it's better to choice a more simple piece......
All best,
S.


Offline thierry13

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 01:06:01 AM »

>I've got 2 recordings of this piece .....

Sincerely, I think this is a very poor playing, neither interesting nor precise.
You had to work hardly, but it's better to choice a more simple piece......
All best,
S.



OMG jealousy. We allready know sarrasani that you can NOT play the piano, that you are not interested in music but only in theatre at the piano, and that you think every non-theatrical playing is boring and therefore an audio record is boring BECAUSE you can't see the theatre, but you know what, you're not on the right forum. And I HOPE you didn't tag your videos on youtube as "music" because it certainly is not. It's theater. Here you are NOT on a theater forum, you are on a PIANO forum. You can't play the piano, you can't do music, what can I say... you're at your place in a musical environment! At least around people who actually understand music(you are not included in those people).

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #11 on: March 19, 2008, 07:39:40 AM »

>I've got 2 recordings of this piece .....

Sincerely, I think this is a very poor playing, neither interesting nor precise.
You had to work hardly, but it's better to choice a more simple piece......
All best,
S.



at least i admit my stuff is crap. you are just completely deluded.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #12 on: March 19, 2008, 01:07:43 PM »
Indeed he IS deluded, and HE can not even admit his stuff his crap (I guess we can all agree that his stuff is one of the shittiest ever posted on here...)

Offline rachfan

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #13 on: March 19, 2008, 03:54:26 PM »
The whole affair seems very bizarre.   ::)
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #14 on: March 19, 2008, 06:52:18 PM »
i have 18 downloads for the 1st recording and 2 comments. does anyone else have any feedback? i dont mind if people only listened to the 1st. it would still be nice to get some more criticism and stuffs.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #15 on: March 19, 2008, 08:11:05 PM »
Hi gruffalo,

Sorry.  Back to business.

I remember listening to your first rendition, but just now listened to it again before going on to the the second recording, so heard them both today.  (I've not studied Gaspard, have just read through parts of it.)  I've heard the recordings of Gieseking, Lorti, and Ashkenazy among others, so I certainly know the sound of the piece extremely well. 

Overall, I like your first effort better than the second.  The tempo is slower in your first Ondine, but that's OK.  If you haven't watched Perlemuter play it on YouTube, tune into it.  Perlemuter, as you know, studied Gaspard with Ravel himself.  So as he played the piece throughout his career, he did so with knowledge that no other pianist could have.  Perlemuter's video was made when he was in his 90s, so they are some wrong or dropped notes once in awhile.  But it's like watching history.  Notice that he doesn't play Ondine like a speed demon either, but nonetheless he achieves astonishing beauty in his performance.  That's why I take no issue with your slower tempo there.  This, after all, is Ondine trying to seduce the poet Bertrand with her cloying, pleading, melancholy song.  We think of this piece as impressionistic, and it is, especially the shimmering effects of water.  But it also has romance in it too.   For it to be beautiful, it has to be somewhat gentle and leisurely.  At that tempo, I think you give much attention to detail as well as playing the long line.  The dynamic control is excellent as are the shading and nuances.  The coda could have been played a bit better I think.  But overall, this is a good, creditable performance.  You really put it across to the listener.

The quality of recording of the second attempt is not as good in my opinion.  Also the tonal balance between the hands is not as carefully controlled as in the original.  In fact, background sometimes battles with foreground.  Overall, it is faster and played with more confidence, but it's also more strident at times too.   

Sometimes when we first undertake a piece, it contains a huge measure of inspiration.  That inspiration overcomes the few evident fluffs and flaws.  Later, when we decide to revive and refine the piece technically, there evolves a more marked correctness to it... but we cannot always recapture that inspiration in exactly the same way as before, which might be the case here.  There are certainly improvements.  But if I were you, I'd still submit No. 1.  Good luck on that!
 
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Ravel - Ondine
«Reply #16 on: March 19, 2008, 08:58:02 PM »
wow, thank you for your comment. just reading what you said is already making me feel the excitement i used to have for the piece (i did know about the piece before, but it is always good to hear it in different words).

i just watched perlemuter's video and it's excellent. i dont know how, but i am just so drawn into his playing of the piece even though he doesnt play with such soft dynamics. it certainly makes me feel better that the tempo i chose is close to his. Gieseking and Lortie are my favourite recordings of Ondine, along with Pascal Roge.

everything you said seems to make good sense to me. i think i will leave the piece alone for a while and come back to it when i am refreshed and hopefully i can fuse the music with the technical side of things. in both recordings i am still heavily challenged by the technical difficulties and intricacies of this piece and i cant say that i even portrayed half of what was in my mind about the piece. i cant wait till this piece becomes easier for my fingers.

thank you again for your great comment.

i am submitting the application tomorrow and sending off recording no.1 with a brahms intermezzo.