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Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement (Read 14155 times)

Offline pies

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Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
« on: March 30, 2008, 03:56:31 AM »
What do you think?  Took some time to learn.

piano sheet music of Concerto 3rd part


Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #1 on: March 30, 2008, 07:11:54 AM »
What do you think?  Took some time to learn.

What are you so mad about? Did you just get off Japan's newest Shinkansen and are upset you arrived at your destination a bit too quickly? ;)

It should be much slower and some parts sounded like 12-tone.  I thought it was funny. ;D

Offline thierry13

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 09:49:46 PM »
There is still much much work to do before it's performance-ready. If you allready put a lot of time on that, you were definitely not ready to tackle that.

Offline dnephi

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #3 on: March 31, 2008, 02:03:57 PM »
There is still much much work to do before it's performance-ready. If you allready put a lot of time on that, you were definitely not ready to tackle that.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline thierry13

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #4 on: March 31, 2008, 03:17:08 PM »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

??

Offline dnephi

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For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #6 on: March 31, 2008, 09:12:04 PM »


I don't get why you laugh about this. I played this already when I was 4 years old. The only problem: I had not yet enough strength to play the fff really actually fff. I admit, it was a slightly bit too hard for me back then ;D. And I couldn't play the double octaves yet :'( :'( :'(. But the screams were already pretty good :) (and, well, isn't there a part where you are supposed to use both feet on the keyboard? I didn't see this here. But ok, perhaps I missed something ;D)

Offline thierry13

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 11:55:41 PM »


I do not see the link with my post.

Offline dnephi

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #8 on: April 01, 2008, 01:23:27 AM »
But there is a link in my post.
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline thierry13

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 03:10:23 PM »
But there is a link in my post.
? I asked you what why did you laugh at my post.

Offline dnephi

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 04:46:23 PM »
I plead the seventh amendment.
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline sharon_f

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #11 on: April 01, 2008, 07:30:56 PM »
People, please it's an APRIL FOOL'S joke!
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Albert Schweitzer

Offline dnephi

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #12 on: April 01, 2008, 08:00:44 PM »
People, please it's an APRIL FOOL'S joke!
Nuh uh.  It was posted long before April Fool's day.
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #13 on: April 01, 2008, 09:05:53 PM »
People, please it's an APRIL FOOL'S joke!

Nuh uh. It was posted long before April Fool's day.

It should have been an April Fool though. Some bits of the recording are, well, you know... and other bits are something else.

Offline pies

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #14 on: April 02, 2008, 01:33:49 AM »
Are there any serious, specific, constructive criticisms?

Offline sharon_f

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #15 on: April 02, 2008, 03:18:43 AM »
Are there any serious, specific, constructive criticisms?

There are too many wrong notes, inconsistent and erratic tempi, your fortes are very harsh in tone, hands are not synchronized at various times, runs and arpeggios are uneven. It feels like you are struggling almost every single second during your performance.

There are so many things wrong that I really thought it was a gag. I am truly sorry if I have offended you.

My question is why would you attempt a piece that many professional pianists would consider twice before attempting? It seems from your recording that you do not have the technical facility at this point to perform this piece satisfactorily.
There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music and cats.
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Offline thierry13

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #16 on: April 02, 2008, 03:42:24 AM »
There are too many wrong notes, inconsistent and erratic tempi, your fortes are very harsh in tone, hands are not synchronized at various times, runs and arpeggios are uneven. It feels like you are struggling almost every single second during your performance.

There are so many things wrong that I really thought it was a gag. I am truly sorry if I have offended you.

My question is why would you attempt a piece that many professional pianists would consider twice before attempting? It seems from your recording that you do not have the technical facility at this point to perform this piece satisfactorily.

My point exactly ...

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #17 on: April 02, 2008, 05:58:46 AM »
Pies,

I was hoping for something to sound close to what I would consider music when I saw your post.  This piece (movement) is one of my favorites in the literature and I was hoping for a lot more.  That went out the window on the second chord.  It was way too fast to be percieved as  music.

The openning piano arpeggio is a motive.  Specifically, it's a fast rising motive which suggests a moment of suspension (silence) before the next chord crashes below.  There was no moment of suspension.  Hence, no music.

What follows sounds angry: it was loud when the musical character doesn't allow for such an expression.

And the excessive speed, beyond what was musically allowable, turned it into an attempt at piano playing instead of music-making.  I think if you were to slow down to the best musical tempo, many of the mistakes would not be made.  It began to sound like the musical composition that was posted above.

I disagree with others that mention you don't have the technical facilty to perform this piece.  You were able to most of the notes right, after all.  The reason I would say this performance doesn't hold up as music is because you didn't pay attention to the music.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #18 on: April 02, 2008, 09:21:41 PM »
I disagree with others that mention you don't have the technical facilty to perform this piece.  You were able to most of the notes right, after all.  The reason I would say this performance doesn't hold up as music is because you didn't pay attention to the music.

A lot of technical problems seems nothing when you play a bunch of note very fast. It's easy to counter a lot of technical problems by going very fast. But the true control, the true technical commend that it takes to play it technically well at a slower, much more musical, and more controlled tempo is far more demanding than what he can deliver, I am afraid.

Offline s_bussotti

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #19 on: April 19, 2008, 10:37:33 PM »
Pedal sustains make it really obvious that this is sped up, which makes the ferocious lack of precision even more hilarious.  Also, I can hear little kids in the background; where was this done exactly?  And what brand of piano?

Offline pies

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #20 on: April 23, 2008, 06:33:17 AM »
a

Offline dnephi

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #21 on: April 23, 2008, 11:52:43 AM »
possibly juz messed up rec system n brain of performer.
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline tds

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #22 on: April 23, 2008, 04:07:19 PM »
it's outrageous sounding...not thoroughly good nor bad. technique's definitely above average. in many passages i have said to myself, "i wish i could play like that", technique wise, that is.

as many has pointed out that its too fast, messy, and angry sounding. my humble advise: leave the piece alone for now and get back to it afresh later. am sure u'll approach it differently and more musically.

best, tds
dignity, love and joy.

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #23 on: April 23, 2008, 04:49:56 PM »
I think you should probably leave this piece alone for a long time.

The main problems are: A total lack of rhythm and pulse. This music needs that drive.

It seems that you are treating it as a virtuoso vehicle, to display your technique. But the major flaw in this, is that you don't have the technique to do that. Plus, the music is not about that. The power in this piece comes from the rhythm, not the speed.

You need to practice it very slowly, for a long time, and make sure every note speaks, and is even. You tend to blur loads of it with pedal, and the harmonys clash. Also, I think you should do a lot of LH work, because it doesn't sound secure. Work a lot with no pedal.


Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #24 on: April 23, 2008, 04:54:29 PM »
The really sad thing is.....This is the reason people dislike Alkan's music...becasue people abuse it and post recordings of themselves trying to show off, and as a result people dismiss Alkan's music.

Offline tompilk

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #25 on: April 23, 2008, 09:47:04 PM »
The really sad thing is.....This is the reason people dislike Alkan's music...becasue people abuse it and post recordings of themselves trying to show off, and as a result people dismiss Alkan's music.
i wouldn't say necessarily to show off. It is wonderful music, and you can't blame anyone for attempting it. It is so attractive on the page too.
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Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #26 on: April 24, 2008, 08:15:14 AM »
People do not treat Alkan's music with respect. People have no idea about his output. They just know op39.

I don't blame anyone for trying, but it should be kept private unless you can actually do the music justice.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #27 on: April 24, 2008, 12:06:32 PM »
I don't blame anyone for trying, but it should be kept private unless you can actually do the music justice.

So true. And that's good for any great music.

Offline tompilk

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #28 on: April 24, 2008, 12:38:46 PM »
i'm not sure whether I agree... I really do see your point but I think that the exposure that might be obtained from many poorer-quality performances might outweigh the possibility of only one or two pianists playing the works...
I don't know, but I'd rather hear a poor pianist's performance of the alkan concerto (preferably better than this one) than an average pianist playing a mozart sonata. I suppose it all comes down to a personal preference between piece/performer.
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Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #29 on: April 24, 2008, 02:44:13 PM »
If you expose MUSICAL people to bad performances they will not listen. If you expose it to people who are impressed by athletics, they will still be unimpressed becasue they like accurate performances.

Alkan's music will be hard to bring to public attention, mainly becasue all of those people who support his music, crucify it. It should not be on youtube with all these idiots posting awful videos of Festin, or bits of the symphony, or videos of Hamelin and then commenting "woahhh speed!"

That is the reason people hate it. If you show Alkan to non pianists (which I have be doing for years) they are not impressed with the concerto, or comme le vent etc....this does not appeal to non-pianists. If you show them op35, or grande sonata, or the preludes, sonatine, and many of the other smaller works, they are easy to draw in, because it is much more accessible, and then show them the big virtuoso stuff.

I think the best concerto recording would be a combination of Ronald Smith's use of colour, and seperation of "orchestra" and piano, and Hamelin's stunning clarity. Smith is also much more severe, and Alkan's music is very severe.

That was a random flurry of thought, but I certainly don't think poor performances of a work would help in any way at all. I once attended a concert with my mum, and the pianist played Chopin 2nd Scherzo really badly. My mum said after the concert "That was awful, what bad music, I don't want to hear that again!" and I argued against this opinion, and said that it was just the performance, but she insisted it was not the performance. So to proove my point, I played her the Scherzo when we got home, and she decided it was a great piece.  Now imagine that I wasn't a pianist, and my mum had just attended that concert....she would decalre it bad music, and never listen to it again. That's what will happen to Alkan if bad performances happen.

Offline rob47

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #30 on: April 24, 2008, 06:16:36 PM »
If you expose MUSICAL people to bad performances they will not listen. If you expose it to people who are impressed by athletics, they will still be unimpressed becasue they like accurate performances.

Alkan's music will be hard to bring to public attention, mainly becasue all of those people who support his music, crucify it. It should not be on youtube with all these idiots posting awful videos of Festin, or bits of the symphony, or videos of Hamelin and then commenting "woahhh speed!"

That is the reason people hate it. If you show Alkan to non pianists (which I have be doing for years) they are not impressed with the concerto, or comme le vent etc....this does not appeal to non-pianists. If you show them op35, or grande sonata, or the preludes, sonatine, and many of the other smaller works, they are easy to draw in, because it is much more accessible, and then show them the big virtuoso stuff.

I think the best concerto recording would be a combination of Ronald Smith's use of colour, and seperation of "orchestra" and piano, and Hamelin's stunning clarity. Smith is also much more severe, and Alkan's music is very severe.

That was a random flurry of thought, but I certainly don't think poor performances of a work would help in any way at all. I once attended a concert with my mum, and the pianist played Chopin 2nd Scherzo really badly. My mum said after the concert "That was awful, what bad music, I don't want to hear that again!" and I argued against this opinion, and said that it was just the performance, but she insisted it was not the performance. So to proove my point, I played her the Scherzo when we got home, and she decided it was a great piece.  Now imagine that I wasn't a pianist, and my mum had just attended that concert....she would decalre it bad music, and never listen to it again. That's what will happen to Alkan if bad performances happen.

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Offline opus10no2

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #31 on: May 07, 2008, 06:05:02 PM »
This recording is incredibly exciting.

Keep your attitude, this is just simply the true way.
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Offline learner of liszt

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #32 on: June 01, 2009, 07:18:44 PM »
Whoa there... what, did you just drink ten gallons of coffee or something? You're playing this faster than Hamelin, and that's saying something. It's also very, very inaccurate (not saying I could do better). Take some time to learn it accurately, and then, if you still think that your current speed is accurate, speed it back up.
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Offline furtwaengler

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #33 on: June 01, 2009, 10:41:45 PM »
How much time? 429 days?
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Offline aslanov

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #34 on: June 03, 2009, 05:55:09 AM »
man, this was......a pretty bad attempt, after the first minute or so, I'd say u plainly lost the melody all together, like at 2:18 for example......and when the main theme is repeated u just lost it, this is horrible. OH MY! Hamelin would slap you for this. as would Thierry (i gather from his comments :p)

Offline lontano

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Re: Alkan - Concerto for solo piano - last movement
«Reply #35 on: June 06, 2009, 12:59:15 AM »
Are there any serious, specific, constructive criticisms?

First let me say this is the first live performance of this great (and monstrously difficult work) I've heard. You certainly have all the technical equipment to refine the performance. Smooth out the edges, focus on the score (way too intense in loud dynamics, and way too fast for the considerable technique you possess). And like others have said the whole piece just hammers its way from beginning to end. The first time I heard this work was by the late Ronald Smith, and he discovered so many wonderful ways to use his powerful technique to create (for me) a great revelation of music by a composer I had just discovered, and in a way I'll never forget. Each measure, phrase and direction in the score was given the utmost consideration to produce an end result that both excites and endears the listener. You have slapped the audience upside the head with this bombastic interpretation, and you know it. And maybe this really was a joke, because I believe if you can play it as presented here, you can do far better in a more "honest, intimate" situation.

You know you're good, so keep working at becoming great!

Lontano
...and she disappeared from view while playing the Agatha Christie Fugue...