Extending last minute essays. . . .

[Essyne]

Okay, it's official. I HATE word counts. I have to have an 800 page essay (I know, I know, not long, but still) about why Roark dynamited Cortlandt Homes in Rand's The Fountainhead (philisophical/moral implications, ya de ya de ya da. . . ).  Yes, I know, can delve into the philosophy, etc. . . . But the thing is, I use very direct, impactful sentence structure when writing an analytical paper - not my flowery, creative sentences that I use when creative writing (once again, common sense, but w/e) and need about 350 more words . . . . and it's due tomorrow.

So - how would recommend broadening the topic? Just throw in extra quotes? I don't want to sound like I'm rambling on and on and on, and there are only so many adjectives one can use. . . . 

~Ess~

Okay, just because this really makes me mad - imho, I believe that it is the "smart" person who can take a complicated subject and present it in a complicated manner while still understanding it, but it is the truly intelligent person who can take a complicated subject and present it in a direct, to the point, concise manner. REALLY - are minimum word counts necessary?!?!

Finished complaining now. Will go actually write it now. (Still curious about your b.s.-ing techniques, though  ).

[Bob]

Mmmm... 800 pages.  That IS tough.  800 words, that's easy.  But 800 pages?  Dang.  Very tough.  The teacher is going to have to grade about 30 800 page paper now.

Just start writing.  You probably already wrote 100 there easy.

Find some sources and bounce ideas off them.  Take notes while you read.  Then just write something for the paper.  You'll get 800 words easily.

You can also do the tricks to make the paper longer.  Like giving examples.  For example, this sentence is really unneccesary, but it makes this part longer.  In fact, it might even make it a paragraph.  And if I keep writing, it starts to look more like a paragraph.  It should have another sentence, and I wasn't even going to write that, but hey, now it's starting to look like a pargraph.

Start with wikipedia.  It's good.  And is as good as print.  I've read enough articles about that.  Use there sources.

Google for more ideas.

The one that I think is a little devious -- and possible actual plagiarism, although it doesn't appear as plagiarism at all.  You steal someone's argument.  Like wikipedia.  Take the structure.  Maybe even take some of the sources too.  Research them yourself.  You just copy the structure of someone else's material.  Boom.  Instant sense is made.  And that doesn't appear to be illegal according to all the rules. 

In addition to a works cited, you can include a bibliography and include every source you looked at that is somewhat related to your topic.

800 words isn't that bad.  The introduction and conclusion can take up maybe 100 of that and that's just repeating the same stuff.  The rest of the paper just explains it in more detail.

Maybe take a look at the opposite idea.  Or what could have, or should have, been. 

If that helps any.

[pies]

a

[Essyne]

I'd disagree, pies. I love what she has to say and, quite frankly, really agree with her. Just can't make my argument long enough . . . 

Thanks Bob - love ya!     

*I guess I've jumped on the "use lots of smileys" bandwagon . . . eh, w/e.

[Bob]

Or use the argument against what you say.  Present that side and then say why it's actually wrong.  That strengthens your side.  It's a Plato or Ptolemy, greek-ish, argument technique.  You can't really know your right until your examine the other side.

Psst.... Essyne... Just get pies to tell you why your wrong.  Then you can use his stuff.  Just reword it.  Paraphrase.  "Some will say that...."

Actually, that's a good strategy too, esp with the internet.  Ask around.  Get other people to toss you ideas.  Like you have here.  You can get reeeeeally good ideas that way. 

[Bob]

Another idea.  This forum is a good example.  Find a forum or something like a database that will have stuff like what you're looking for.  Something that will search more speficially than Google.  Google for this site, I think, only looks at the titles but doesn't search inside the posts.  I think... I'm not quite sure about that now.  It's getting late....  But the idea of finding a site that can search better is true.  Search engines aren't looking at everything out there.

[Essyne]

psst, pies - why am i wrong? (can you give me a 50 word explanation please  )

~Ess~

[pianochick93]

REALLY - are minimum word counts necessary?!?!

Well if they weren't, all of the stupid people would write about 300 words. One essay I had last term was 500-800 words. It was an interesting subject, so I was begging my teacher to let me write 1000 or so words. The evil little...teacher...wouldn't let me.

[pies]

a

[Essyne]

will argue w/ you 2morrow, pies - am a little "rand-ed" out at the moment.

[quantum]

I like stuff that 5th graders write.  It is to the point and most likely more engaging than academic blabber. 

I digress.

When reading academic articles often I see the author going on many different tangents and points of view.  Also citing very detailed examples for each.  You may only be arguing one real "point" within say 500 words, but the rest is supportive material for that point. Listing alternate points of view by different people is possible - gives more of a well rounded survey of thoughts. 

I remember reading a 40 page article for homework, and in the next lecture the prof outlined the three points that were argued and those main points are what we needed to know for the exam.  It could have been summarized in one page or so. 

[Bob]

Some more ideas...

Restate what you say.  Just write the same ideas over using different words.

Use transitions.  At the start and end of each paragraph.  They're supposed to make the transition between things smoother, but they also just add more length.

Because you can get hammered for not meeting the minimum word length, but probably won't get as many points deducted just for being a little wordy.

[Essyne]

Yeah - definately got hammered for my research paper this year. I have a perfect GPA, and almost flipped when I got 40 pts. off for not meeting the min. word length, before realizing that she was being quite generous. She said it was the best essay though, just 1/2 page too short. . . .

Finished the paper - it was 880 words, so barely made it. Added some clever extended metaphors - some, uh, VERY CLEVER extended metaphors. All I have to say is that they'll either like it or hate it, and I did my best so w/e. Criticism is never in short supply wherever one travels.

[amanfang]

Ah yes.  I'm finishing up the 7th page of my 7-9 page paper.  I haven't added any musical examples yet, so that will take up some space.  Lengthy footnotes will also take up space.  I have only my conclusion plus half of another paragraph to write.  I think I will easily meet my page requirement...

[Essyne]

Can't wait to get out of high school hell. Then the INTERESTING papers will begin (i.e. not everthing revolving around "peer pressure" and "just saying no." When you have no "peers" to be pressured by and just don't say ANYTHING, these topics are completely irrelevant). My teacher always tells me that I'm too artistic/creative in everything that I do because I relate everything to music - but it's not like I'm going off topic or anything! I just make appropriate UNIVERSAL "musical connections," for instance - when explaining how the author creates a sense of longing, I may state that he ends on a poetic, "minor key." Apparently, in that little place called high school, music doesn't exist. (But I knew that already. . . .  ).

*simmers* REALLY! *


- - - There's my rant for the day    - - -

[Bob]

That's because people say the school system can fix all of society's problems.  Just do a program -- Boom!  Solved.  Just like that. 

It's in college too.  I took the same class, under different titles of course, about human rights issues, etc.  Required of course.  But then I figured out I could really just start reusing the same papers too, just change the title.  Seemed to fit the classes well.

[Essyne]

It's in college too.

ah - brilliant.

at least there's something to look forward to. . . 

[Bob]

They won't go by page numbers.  They'll use word counts.

And some will be more like ten times 800.  800 is very short.  But there are plenty of resources for information so it's not that bad.

[slobone]

Yeah, my big trick in school was to throw in a lot of specific examples. It made me stand out, because most students don't bother to do it.

So -- make a general point -- throw in a specific example that (more or less) illustrates it -- then take a shot -- make a point -- throw in example -- take a shot [OK I threw the shot part in 

And make sure your example aren't all from the first 50 pages of the book. Teachers are on to that one...

[pianochick93]

I get a lot of essays for my history subject. We are about to get one on feminism (as soon as term starts that is...)
I think I will take a tape recorder along to class and record the discussions we have to use it. Stupid comment of the week, made by some 13 year old smart arse: 'I think it's really sexist that women can bear children and go through labor, but men can't'

Good times...good times.

[minor9th]

That's because people say the school system can fix all of society's problems.  Just do a program -- Boom!  Solved.  Just like that. 

It's in college too.  I took the same class, under different titles of course, about human rights issues, etc.  Required of course.  But then I figured out I could really just start reusing the same papers too, just change the title.  Seemed to fit the classes well.

If your professors use TurnItIn.com, I would not recommend recycling papers...

[Bob]

I don't think you can plagiarize yourself.  If it's your and fits the two assignments, what can they do?

[amanfang]

There is debate on that issue.  Some profs consider it academic dishonesty to re-use a paper/project that you have already turned in for credit.  Many schools have policies on the issues.

[slobone]

I don't think you can plagiarize yourself.  If it's your and fits the two assignments, what can they do?

That's not plagiarism, it's a shorter word -- cheating.

I once TA'd a class with several sections, where each student handed in a paper to be graded by the TA of his/her section. Two girls who were in different sections handed in the same paper. They would have gotten away with it, except that the other TA and I were grading papers at the same time and were reading particularly stupid papers out loud to each other. The girls had the chutzpah to say they didn't know there was anything wrong with it -- "we were working together."

[Bob]

I don't think it's cheating.  I'm talking about using your own paper for two different classes.  As long as it meets the requirments, I don't see anything wrong with it.

The example you gave was two students using the same paper.  That's different.


If you want to blur it a little more, what if you use your own paper but reword it? 

[Bob]

What about stealing someone's argument or sources?  That seems a little bit devious to me, but I haven't heard anyone mention it before or that it's wrong.

[slobone]

I don't think it's cheating.  I'm talking about using your own paper for two different classes.  As long as it meets the requirments, I don't see anything wrong with it.

The example you gave was two students using the same paper.  That's different.


If you want to blur it a little more, what if you use your own paper but reword it? 

You're right, my example was of something different.

But I can't believe you think re-using a paper (without the knowledge of the teacher) isn't cheating. You are kidding, right?

[Bob]

Nope.  I've done it before.  I don't see what the problem is.  It's your own work.  Twice the payoff for the work.  This was for a course about multiculturalism.  I took essentially the same course four times under different names.  All required.  The profs kept covering the same material.  I got sick of it and then realized a paper I already wrote fit the profile of the assignment.  Problem solved.  I'd already gotten everything I was going to get out of it.  Something was messed up if I was covering the same material like that.  And it's not music. 

[slobone]

Nope.  I've done it before.  I don't see what the problem is.  It's your own work.  Twice the payoff for the work.  This was for a course about multiculturalism.  I took essentially the same course four times under different names.  All required.  The profs kept covering the same material.  I got sick of it and then realized a paper I already wrote fit the profile of the assignment.  Problem solved.  I'd already gotten everything I was going to get out of it.  Something was messed up if I was covering the same material like that.  And it's not music. 

If your teachers had known what you were doing, do you think they would have said "OK, no problem"? I think the answer is obvious.

[Bob]

I don't know.  It fit the assignment.  And it's my work.  Doesn't matter now.  It was long ago and I don't consider it that important.

[Essyne]

Got a PERFECT score on my paper! Apparently, I'm some kind of legend now. No one, and I mean NO ONE gets a perfect score from my English teacher - she makes a point to give out grades 5-8 points under just because there's always "room for improvement" (I always thought I was a "nobody," but now this hypothesis has been confirmed   ). My teacher showed the entire English Department my paper, and next year's Brit. Lit. teacher came up to me and said that I have "brilliant" insight and that I understand Rand's philosophy 100%, my voice is excellent, and that he can't wait to have me next year  . Life is good.

[amanfang]

Congrats Essyne!

Bob, I understand your point of view.  Again, there is a lot of debate.  Some profs think it's fine if you've already done the work, and others view it as academic dishonesty if you've already received credit for it.  Re-wording something doesn't much change it.  If you re-WORK something, however, and add new ideas or put a different spin, to the point of changing the dynamic of the paper, then I'd say it was fine.

[pianochick93]

Congratulations Ess!

Now what would you do without us pianostreetians... 

[keypeg]

CONGRATS!!! 

[pianogeek_cz]

Woohoo! Congratulations!
Enjoy the feeling and remember it when you're banging your head against the wall working on the next essay.