John Williams Blows!

[ryguillian]

Thoughts?

Recently had a friend (well, not a friend anymore!) tell me that he loves John Williams and thought it'd be funny to draw up some community strength against this slipshod second-rate bastard!

Personally, John Williams reminds me of what Nietzsche said about Wagner: "Only sick music makes money today."

So basically what I'm looking for is (more) disparaging comments about ole J. W. (the more aphoristic, acid-tongued, cutting, and vitriol-laden the better!)!!

B.,—Ry!

[Bob]

Well I like John Williams.

I heard heard movie music editors like his stuff because they could mix and match it, that it's just made up of moments.

[pies]

a

[gerry]

He does not blow; he sucks, like an Oreck.

An important distinction lest he be confused with 17th C organist/composer John Blow.

[mattgreenecomposer]

Have to disagree with you here.  You have no rationality to your statement. 
-He's a pioneer in the filmscore world in his use of the leitmotif
-Still is composing at age 76!
-Scored over 300 films
-Nominated 45 times for an academy award
-Themes are recognized world wide by little kids to  grandparents
-Arranger, orchestrator, pianist, and conductor

  What have you done rygullian?

[allthumbs]

Have to disagree with you here.  You have no rationality to your statement. 
-He's a pioneer in the filmscore world in his use of the leitmotif
-Still is composing at age 76!
-Scored over 300 films
-Nominated 45 times for an academy award
-Themes are recognized world wide by little kids to  grandparents
-Arranger, orchestrator, pianist, and conductor

  What have you done rygullian?

Touché!

[retrouvailles]

Have to disagree with you here.  You have no rationality to your statement. 
-He's a pioneer in the filmscore world in his use of the leitmotif
-Still is composing at age 76!
-Scored over 300 films
-Nominated 45 times for an academy award
-Themes are recognized world wide by little kids to  grandparents
-Arranger, orchestrator, pianist, and conductor

  What have you done rygullian?

Sure, he is good at film scoring, and he does it very well, but for the love of God he cannot compose a serious piece of concert music! I've heard some concertos and other orchestral works and they don't even begin to compare with other composers his age. I could give a list if you want. I also do not want to go into technical details about why the compositions are bad, simply because I am not mentally equipped to do so, but if you ask anyone that knows their contemporary music, chances are that if they mention John Williams at all, they will only mention his film scores. So my point is that he is GREAT at scoring films, but he cannot compose concert music well.

[Bob]

What has he done for classical music?

I can only think of a few.   The Olympic theme.  I think there was another patriotic one.


(Bob senses a Wikipedia posting is about to appear.)

[indutrial]

So basically what I'm looking for is (more) disparaging comments about ole J. W. (the more aphoristic, acid-tongued, cutting, and vitriol-laden the better!)!!

B.,—Ry!

I'm not even going to bother discussing John Williams, since the original post is just about the most lame and sophomoric thing I've read here in weeks. It's like a call to arms for people who like to act like total douchebags. The whole pattern of high-school/college-aged firebrands way too addicted to their own sarcasm and blogospheric faux-wittiness throwing these troll-a-thon proposals out into the open is becoming such a tired scene.

It's also a shame that Nietzsche's ideas get so horribly whored out all the time, especially by charlatans who wear his cute little aphorisms on their chest like those crappy little punk rock pins that emo losers stick all over their backpacks.

[pies]

a

[indutrial]

I've never seen a philosopher's ideas be raped in so many ways.

You haven't seen the Matrix trilogy or read any bad SF books recently?

In all seriousness, I'd say that of all philosophical writers, Nietzsche's quotes and ideas get misused more than anything, with the offenders ranging from Nazi propagandists to stupid goth kids and beyond. It doesn't help that he wrote tons of aphorisms and that a lot of those end up in quotations books and websites verbatim.

[Bob]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Williams#Concerti

[Petter]

So what you think personally about John Williams doesn´t matter? If you really consider his work that plebian why can´t you think of something to say yourself. Strange topic...

[rachfan]

After Arthur Fiedler died after conducting the Boston Pops for 55 years, John Williams took over in 1980 for the next 15 years as principal conductor.  (The long-time associate conductor, Harry Ellis Dickson, wasn't given the nod for that slot.)  Anyone like Williams' conducting better than his composing?

[retrouvailles]

Anyone like Williams' conducting better than his composing?

Me, if you count his concert works with his film scores. Not me, if you only count his film scores. See my past posts.

[dan101]

John Williams is a first rate composer in his genre. As a member of ther Guild of Canadian Film Composers, I can tell you that most of my colleagues agree. His music is very catchy and well orchestrated.

[gerry]

Interesting that we haven't heard a word from the individual who started this ridiculous thread....

[retrouvailles]

John Williams is a first rate composer in his genre. As a member of ther Guild of Canadian Film Composers, I can tell you that most of my colleagues agree. His music is very catchy and well orchestrated.

It's probably well orchestrated because the stuff that he stole from some other composers (Stravinsky, Holst, etc) was very well orchestrated. I would almost call him a great and resourceful thief instead of a great composer.

[Bob]

I do like the orchestration.  I know that. 

I he copied others, but so what?  It's orchestration.  After awhile, I think he's got his own style.

[Petter]

He´s probably very rich.

[indutrial]

So what you think personally about John Williams doesn´t matter? If you really consider his work that plebian why can´t you think of something to say yourself. Strange topic...

The topic is downright stupid and useless, and the OP is probably not contributing any more because his dream of others jumping in and acting like smug elitists has turned into dust. There's no point in slagging someone like John Williams. Anyone who matters in the classical composing and performance worlds(which is the best most of us should hope to emulate) is probably not wasting time grinding axes about popular culture and trying desperately hard to be clever and more sarcastic than the next guy. It's not like music theory professors anywhere are deciding to build curricula around studying the scores for Raiders of the Lost Ark and Minority Report. Elliott Carter's not going to celebrate his hundreth year by penning a set of variations based on the music from the Mos Eisley cantina. Fact is, most of us probably have at least some good memories of enjoying movies that featured Williams' scoring and some of us probably like the music and wish to god that we could come up with material that appropriate for its given medium. I know a part of me would be fine with having that ability. It beats being a trash-talking little sprig who trolls message boards to boost the old self-esteem.

[Bob]

Yeah!  




 
(Looks around for sprig trolls.)

[gerry]

Sums it up - end of thread (hopefully).

[ryguillian]

Sums it up - end of thread (hopefully).

Speaking of “sums it up”... the arguments I've read thus far boil down to: “John Williams's music is popular, pleasant-sounding, and widely-accepted; therefore, it is good.”

Weak.

B.,—Ry.

[indutrial]

Speaking of “sums it up”... the arguments I've read thus far boil down to: “John Williams's music is popular, pleasant-sounding, and widely-accepted; therefore, it is good.”

Weak.

B.,—Ry.

Um, okay. When you can explain where the real harm is in that, maybe we'll all be eating our words. But until then, please just get over yourself...

Are you seriously trying to boost up your own self-assurance by indirectly saying that everyone else on this thread are a bunch of complacent and cowardly populists. You're just being pissy because nobody, not even those of us who don't really follow Williams' work or care that much, came out and started stroking your elitist rod by supporting your lousy attitude with equally lousy attitudes. Whether any of us like Williams' music or not, what the f**k use is blowing off steam about it when we can talk about things that actually matter in the classical world.

[webern78]

Whether any of us like Williams' music or not, what the f**k use is blowing off steam about it when we can talk about things that actually matter in the classical world.

Fun?

[indutrial]

Fun?

If Ryguillian's great topic idea was sooo much fun, why didn't we jump right in guns blazing and really raise the roof with a tidal wave of anti-John-Williams slander and diatribe.

Probably because that's not fun at all. It's about as fun as going to a bookstore and making snide comments to patrons who are standing at the checkout line with Harry Potter books and Stephen King novels instead of copies of In Search of Lost Time or Finnegan's Wake.

If I wanted to have fun, I'd sooner watch Return of the Jedi (with the volume pumped) before I'd sit here typing a bunch of pretentious snark on this forum to get my rocks off about something that shouldn't really bother me.

[ryguillian]

Probably because that's not fun at all. It's about as fun as going to a bookstore and making snide comments to patrons who are standing at the checkout line with Harry Potter books and Stephen King novels instead of copies of In Search of Lost Time or Finnegan's Wake.

The title of the Joyce book is actually Finnegans Wake without a possessive apostrophe-'S'; personally, though, I'd have a copy of Gravity's Rainbow clenched to my chest as the French and English (and Canadian, in this case) bother me.

Epic war predict I between Indutrial and RyGuy.

B,—Ry.

[indutrial]

The title of the Joyce book is actually Finnegans Wake without a possessive apostrophe-'S'; personally, though, I'd have a copy of Gravity's Rainbow clenched to my chest as the French and English (and Canadian, in this case) bother me.

Epic war predict I between Indutrial and RyGuy.

B,—Ry.

I've not read that book nor do I have any immediate plans to, so my knowledge of its title's punctuation was bound to trip over itself as I carelessly enter posts into this sh*t-stinking thread. My point remains, all Wikipedia-based psuedo-intellectual nitpicking aside. One thing I definitely noticed during college (as a lit major even) is that Joyce's longer (but important) books are some of those works that get name-dropped by quacks more than they are actually read by real students, sort of like Pynchon's fictional works, the writings of theorists like Lacan and Derrida, and almost everything written by philosophers from Kant forward. When it stops looking so much like a fashion statement, maybe I'll give a rat's ass and have the patience to actually listen attentively.

Epic war my ass. At best, any forum spat is about as epic as two mentally-handicapped people attacking each other with Nerf swords and wiffle bats in an inflatable moonwalk.

[webern78]

If Ryguillian's great topic idea was sooo much fun, why didn't we jump right in guns blazing and really raise the roof with a tidal wave of anti-John-Williams slander and diatribe.

Different people have different conceptions of fun. You of all people ought to appreciate this.

BTW, if John Williams is off limits, we can still denigrate Andrew Loyd Webber, right?

[thalbergmad]

two mentally-handicapped people attacking each other with Nerf swords

You must have been to the Glastonbury Festival.

Thal

[indutrial]

Different people have different conceptions of fun. You of all people ought to appreciate this.

BTW, if John Williams is off limits, we can still denigrate Andrew Loyd Webber, right?

Nothing is really off limits, but it would be nice to see some of the pissing-and-moaning little tortured geniuses who are apparantly so far above the intellectual curve actually leveling real criticism at something instead of just spewing a bunch of highfalutin trash that's more in the tune of pretentious, needly high-schoolers who are in desperate need of ego deflation and a healthier sex life.

If one's idea of fun requires lame behaviors like denigrating popular music (which, mind you, is often written with the goal of ENTERTAINMENT) and popular musicians, then you're doing a damn fine job of making the image of the 'bitter snob classical musician' ring true, and that just sucks.

[pies]

a

[Essyne]

This whole thread reminds me of this college guy (oh, I'm sorry, I should probably say "student"  ) who was sitting in front of me at a concert about a week and a half ago. Any time any other patron would make a SOUND (i.e. flipping through the pamplet, shifting their weight to relieve their backsides that had falled asleep -oops, not their fault that the chair squeaked) he'd turn around and give them some kind of death-stare, like they had gotten up during some Catholic Mass and started screaming that Jesus is the Devil. Really, guys - everybody's human - that's what makes this world beautiful. Lighten up. Enjoy the Performance and the Music instead of telling everyone to shut up. You will, believe it or not, learn more in the end.

[slobone]

This whole thread reminds me of this college guy (oh, I'm sorry, I should probably say "student"  ) who was sitting in front of me at a concert about a week and a half ago. Any time any other patron would make a SOUND (i.e. flipping through the pamplet, shifting their weight to relieve their backsides that had falled asleep -oops, not their fault that the chair squeaked) he'd turn around and give them some kind of death-stare, like they had gotten up during some Catholic Mass and started screaming that Jesus is the Devil. Really, guys - everybody's human - that's what makes this world beautiful. Lighten up. Enjoy the Performance and the Music instead of telling everyone to shut up. You will, believe it or not, learn more in the end.

Oh whew, what a relief. Guess I can turn my cell phone back on!

[indutrial]

Why do you think it has turned into a fashion statement?

1. Because it's easier to fake being sophisticated and intellectually elite than it ever was in the past. Just go on Wikipedia and learn the names of a bunch of books and voila...appearance of a genius.

2. Because kids in the arts/music world are more f**king emo than they've ever been in the past and they have to foist their frail and whiny personalities on everyone they come in contact with in an overbearing and forceful way. Mixed with #1, you end up with frigging 19-year-olds who are not even through college pretending to have peerless knowledge of things like 20th century music and post-modern literature/theory/philosophy/politics/math/science/whatever and feel they've earned the right to slag on everything that's not sitting on the cusp of those avant-garde and hyper-intellectual frontiers.

3. Because for some reason, these days it's more and more socially acceptable to behave like a douchebag, intellectual or not. It probably has something to do with the fact that so many parents decided to pussy out and stopped hitting/punishing their kids when they talked back the early 1990s. Teachers and disciplinary aides also aren't allowed to lay the law down anymore without getting 10 complaints from the same snatch-riffic parents.

[Petter]

3. Because for some reason, these days it's more and more socially acceptable to behave like a douchebag, intellectual or not. It probably has something to do with the fact that so many parents decided to pussy out and stopped hitting/punishing their kids when they talked back the early 1990s. Teachers and disciplinary aides also aren't allowed to lay the law down anymore without getting 10 complaints from the same snatch-riffic parents.

I think it´s the internets fault and the anonymity it provides with no need for personal responsibility. We´re all doomed. Allthough I like using google for spellcheck or I would never had spelled my first sentence correct.

[indutrial]

I think it´s the internets fault and the anonymity it provides with no need for personal responsibility. We´re all doomed. Allthough I like using google for spellcheck or I would never had spelled my first sentence correct.

You can't blame the colors for the painters' mistakes. The internet's wide availability to kids from the years of grade school forward is definitely a huge enabler for the things that I mentioned before. When I was a kid, if you for whatever reason decided to act like a complete bleeding douche, the medium you had to work with was simply the school itself. The internet was starting to take off by about 8th grade, but back then the connection was still 1200 and 2400 modems and you would sometimes have to mind the phone bill or your parents would cancel the AOL service. So it was fun for things like small chat room sessions and waiting 20 minutes for an MS Word guitar tablature to download, but not for spending an hour or two trolling a bunch of forums, reading tons of s**t on Wikipedia, updating Myspace, checking Facebook, posting a blurry picture on Deviantart, watching Youtube (and likely trolling Youtube as well), and trolling more forums. The current internet has opened up the possibilities to be an annoying dick, and plenty of kids are jumping right into that role. This is especially true of newer places like Gamingforce, Myspace, Youtube, X-Box Live, which are just rife with s**t attitudes.

[slobone]

So your theory is that all trolls are kids? 

[ryguillian]

So your theory is that all trolls are kids? 

Second instance of Indutrial's fallacious arguments being torn from their puffy, circumloquatious verbiage and laid bare for what they are.

B.,—Ry.

[indutrial]

So your theory is that all trolls are kids? 

Where did I write that? There's a difference between saying "a lot of kids become trolls" and "all trolls are kids."

Second instance of Indutrial's fallacious arguments being torn from their puffy, circumloquatious verbiage and laid bare for what they are.

B.,—Ry.

Yeah, okay. When you actually lay any of said arguments bare it'll make more sense for you spout out your dumbassed editorializing. You forcing a pile of unnecessary SAT words into a dingy little third-person commentary is hardly enough to make me think you have any clout whatsoever.

Between this lousy thread and your equally worthless contributions to the last Sorabji thread you decided to harass people on, you've proven that you have virtually nothing left to offer except giant dollops of below-25 bitchiness that is self-gratifying to the point of annoyance.

[ryguillian]

Indutrial, you disappoint me:

1. Despite being a supposed "lit." degree-holder, you fail to understand tense.
2. You defend popular music (and by extension John Williams's) as being designed for fun, yet haven't realized that this thread has been "per divertirsi".
3. How dare you.

But to the cadenza:

Words and meaning part company in what both of us write, but less subconsciously in my case. Elaborated: all of my dialectical taunts (slings and arrows, if you will) have been textual subterfuge; my real impetus being to keep the string of characters "John Williams Blows!" at the top of the thread listing. Gotta relight the candle to keep the air hot... the balloon afloat on-high.

So tell me Indutrial, how exactly does it feel to be a means?

Love forever and ever,

Ryguillian

[indutrial]

All of my dialectical taunts (slings and arrows, if you will) have been textual subterfuge; my real impetus being to keep the string of characters "John Williams Blows!" at the top of the thread listing.

Love forever and ever,

Ryguillian

So, your making this thread represents the same maturity that a grade-schooler displays by writing swear words on the wall of the bathroom stall with permanent black marker...? If engineering a forum (such subterfuge!!!) to keep one's own immature wankings in plain sight is what you have to do for fun, then you really need to get some new hobbies, maybe a friend or two...something to distract you from all the time you must spend thinking about how clever you are.

[ryguillian]

So, your making this thread represents the same maturity that a grade-schooler displays by writing swear words on the wall of the bathroom stall with permanent black marker...? If engineering a forum (such subterfuge!!!) to keep one's own immature wankings in plain sight is what you have to do for fun, then you really need to get some new hobbies, maybe a friend or two...something to distract you from all the time you must spend thinking about how clever you are.

And you're the idiot who writes "don't write on the wall" (in permanent black market) on the stall wall. So immature that you fell for it, aye? And personally, I communicate using pits of black tar... easier for people to get stuck in you see.

Also, it should be noted that a quick glance at this thread with any statistical eye will reveal who uses swear words more frequently.

And lastly, on the subject of cleverness I believe Herr Nietzsche wrote on the subject; I recall a chapter in Ecce Homo entitled Why I Am So Clever ... perhaps we can devote a book, or at least a chapter to it?

B.,—Ry.

[indutrial]

And personally, I communicate using pits of black tar... easier for people to get stuck in you see.

So you're saying that it somehow a better to assume the role of a smug f**king pest than to either a.) contribute to a web forum in any way or b.) simply shut one's mouth. Maybe you should log off and take the time you spend editing your tart posts and actually go to the library and read the books on which you have such a mile-wide-inch-deep knowledge.

It's a shame, since you were a much better poster back before you got x-ed from the Sorabji forum and before you decided to take over as the newest limp-dicked firebrand around here.

[pies]

(in permanent black market)

Just continuing the time-honoured tradition of pointlessly pointing out typos..

[thalbergmad]

Just continuing the time-honored tradition of pointlessly pointing out typos..

HONOURED

[ryguillian]

Just continuing the time-honoured tradition of pointlessly pointing out typos..

Wasn't actually a typo.

B., Ry.

[pies]

a

[thalbergmad]

Welcome to battle of the egos.