In the beginning - there was RHYTHM

[comme_le_vent]

i have always thought rhythms wasnt discussed often enough among pianists.

i think the rhythmic feel of a pianist is very important for me to like them.

i love horowitz's and hamelin's natural feeling of a beat and sense of rubato,
for example in horowitz's rakockzy march the rhythm is very strict and robust, yet never metronomic, it always has a groove and a feel to it, and through this rhythm the energy and aggressive mood of the piece is immesurably enhanced.

another pianist that amazes me with rhythm is cziffra - in alot of the music he plays, he suddenly speeds up and slows down and distorts rhythms in all sorts of ways, yet it always sounds amazing.

we always talk about dynamic and tonal colour, well i think cziffra is the prime example of a pianist with a different kind of colour - rhythmic colour.

any other thoughts on rhtyhm, and what makes great rhythm?

[jeff]

i also love cziffra's sense of rhythm, and i think the way he treats rhythm is really effective in showing you the macro-structures of the music (as opposed to drawing your attention to certain details and isolated points). His rhythm gives you a sense of the 'bigger picture'.

i've been wondering for a while if this sort of treatment of rhythm might be a hungarian thing... to me, liszt's and bartok's music both seem to respond really well to that sort of rhythmic treatment.. and there's another pianist i've heard and had classes with - michael kieran harvey - who studied in hungary, and he treats rhythm quite similarly (he actually got me started thinking about the importance of using rhythm in this way).
Also, if you think of hungarian gypsy music - they use gradual accelerandi over long periods to sustain and increase tension/excitement (like cziffra)

[kilpok]

Hey comme le vent,

i'm glad that you picked this subject for discussion.  You see my piano teacher is big on rythm. So lately I've been thinking about rythm .  

  you know this life is full of exemples of rythm.  Your heart, your walking pace, train schedule, sleeping, talking, etc..  Of  course some exemples are of consistent rythm and others are exemples of inconsistent.  But the the thing is everything has rythm.    
  I think part of what makes  great pianist is their ability to put what they are(thoughts, their way of being, emotions, etc.) into the music they are playing.  And part of this of course is rythm.Horowitz, rubenstein Samson Francoise, Kissin, kempf to name a few are pianists of whom i listen to alot.  Of course they are all different.   But all have superb rythm.
So what makes great rythm in music? My opinion is that a great rythm is one that is natural, rigourous,   thooughtful, and personal.  I think all of the pianists i mentioned above have all of these qualities.  But to pinpoint of what i think each of them has to their "rythmic siganture " Horowitz i think uses rythmic tension and release to the extreme thoughtfully to construct his message.  Kissin is very natural in his rythmic pulsation.  Francoise is very colorful rythmically, and kempf very simple.  
So how to develope a great rythm?  hmm.... i wish i had the answer for everybody.  But i can only tell you of what i do.  You know my analysis teacher once said  " rythm is the driving force behind music, and what determines rythm are the harmonies".  To be conscience of this helps me a lot as far as controlling rythm( being exaci rallentando, accel. retaking the tempo, etc)  So i try to listen to the relationship between the harmonies and at the same time think of what i want to do with the rythm.  Personally i try to be rigous and exact(exact triplets, quadruples, etc.)  sometimes playing with rythmic tension and release.
i don't know? But this  helps me.  
 i,m kind of tired see you later

[ayahav]

I'm happy to see that rhythm is important to you guys.

I just performed Beethoven's Sonata quasi una fantasia Op.27/2 at a school recital, and the biggest comment I got from a music teacher is about my sense of rhythm that has developed.... ... Sorry to brag.... just had to let that out.

[DarkWind]

I have an exceptional talent at using rythm to really add color to a piece. I never keep a steady pace, I am always changing speeds just to match each measure to make it sound as most interesting as possible. It really makes something much more worthwhile to listen to, although I've rarely heard any pianist use rythm to a very large extent.

[Antnee]

Rythm is very important, and can add just as much color to a piece as touch can, probably more. Rythym is also VERY important in sight reading. I also have good rythm, in fact today my teacher informed me that I'd be surprised if I knew the number of students she had taught, both adult and kids, that had no sense of rythm, and found it difficult to even make an eighth note to quarter beats!

-Tony-

[comme_le_vent]

there is though, a difference between understanding rhythms intellectually, and feeling them musically.
i dont think that latter is really teachable...

[comme_le_vent]

ive also noticed that rhythm is a very unique word and very often misspelt

it has no vowels, and it looks very wierd......

once and for all its spelt ...

RHYTHM!  

[newsgroupeuan]

what makes great rhythm?

A pace that you can breath to?  I find all good stuff has that? I have a feeling that patterns in music have to do with singing originally-you never get jump bigger than an octave (ussually)

...But the people say I can't count to save myself so you can ignore me if you like...

[greyrune]

You know i'm amazed this hasn't come up more often in this forum.  Rhythm i've always thought is one of the most esential elements of music.  While it's possible to be a quite good musician with no real appreciation of melody or harmony, a terrible ear, even without a sense of phrasing, though this is more obvious, rhythm always shows.  I'm currently playing in a band in which the guitarist, unfortunately, has almost no sense of rhythm, and its often almost painful to play with him.  You really can't attempt to be a decent musician without rhythm.  Fortunately i think it can be learned, or at least improved.  I didn't used to have amazing rhythm, though it was never terrible, and now after a couple of years it is hugely better.  Course drumming helps with this.  Also i find practising with a metronome is a huge help as there's nothing more annoying than a musician who constantly changes tempo in a song.  It can sound good but only when done tastefully and not too frequently.

P.S. sorry if all my posts seem to end up mentioning drums, though i'm sure none of you noticed.

[ahmedito]

I have an exceptional talent at using rythm to really add color to a piece. I never keep a steady pace, I am always changing speeds just to match each measure to make it sound as most interesting as possible. It really makes something much more worthwhile to listen to, although I've rarely heard any pianist use rythm to a very large extent.

hmm.... you know, having a great sense of rythmical color isnt just about changing speeds in every measure to make it sound interest. that sounds just a tad superficial.... I think the real force behind rythmic mastery is understanding upbeats, downbeats and harmony in relation to our body's natural rythims (like breathing and walking). Try beathing in different ways while you play and your rythim will definately sound more natural,.

[stevie]

this thread is worth bumping, vehemently

[tds]

i can tell your 'give it to me big daddy' thingie is of additive rhythm, no?